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How to kill depression

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    #92
    Babooshka
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Babooshka


    gozunda wrote: »
    Hmmm yes ok - I don't believe this is a discussion about Existentialism or middle eastern philosophy ...

    In the meantime Devores personal description if his experience of depression stands. Thanks all the same. :rolleyes:

    I think that's a bit rough on the previous poster there. The whole reason people struggle hugely with depression (a blanket description of a vast and widely ranging list of mental health issues) is because it has different meanings for different people, giving exclusivity to one poster over another for the meaning that they find in it is not very compassionate. It is compassion we need most when trying to fight our own depression, or understand someone else's demons. Rolleyes emoticons used to put others down in a discussion about something as debilitating and ruthless as depression is a bit mean, I think. I think we all need to be nicer to each other when discussing these things. We all deal with and understand things very differently, sometimes we have to be patient with each other.

    Depression is a b*stard of a thing to live through. I hate it. I think the biggest problem that comes with it is fear. Everyone gets scared, the person suffering with it, the family and friends, everyone around it. It's a very scary thing which in turn can make the depression worse. I wish anyone dealing with it in any form comfort.


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    #93
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Exercise can be a great help to some people suffering from depression - I am one of those people thankfully. But it doesn't work for everyone and, of course, there's the issue that depression makes it obscenely difficult to motivate yourself to exercise in the first place.


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    #94
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Babooshka wrote: »
    I think that's a bit rough on the previous poster there. The whole reason people struggle hugely with depression (a blanket description of a vast and widely ranging list of mental health issues) is because it has different meanings for different people, giving exclusivity to one poster over another for the meaning that they find in it is not very compassionate. It is compassion we need most when trying to fight our own depression, or understand someone else's demons. Rolleyes emoticons used to put others down in a discussion about something as debilitating and ruthless as depression is a bit mean, I think. I think we all need to be nicer to each other when discussing these things. We all deal with and understand things very differently, sometimes we have to be patient with each other.

    Depression is a b*stard of a thing to live through. I hate it. I think the biggest problem that comes with it is fear. Everyone gets scared, the person suffering with it, the family and friends, everyone around it. It's a very scary thing which in turn can make the depression worse. I wish anyone dealing with it in any form comfort.

    No it wasn't. Depression is a real medical condition as opposed to a vague mindset that can be automatically cured by self reflection etc. Sometimes there is a need need to cut the bs tbh. This has absolutely no basis in medical science whatsoever :mad: Drepresion needs recognition not transcedental belief systems. ie
    Antarcticseal wrote: »
    Excessive thought and identification with form can block your connection to the life or consciousness inside yourself. This can cause you to feel flat or to feel nothing


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    #95
    Antarcticseal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10 ✭Antarcticseal


    gozunda wrote: »
    Hmmm yes ok - I don't believe this is a discussion about Existentialism or middle eastern philosophy ...

    In the meantime Devores personal description of his experience of depression stands. Thanks all the same. :rolleyes:

    How to allow Delores description of depression to be cured also still stands. Surrender to the present moment and what is stands, realising that your "story of who you are" is a false sense of self helps you find inner peace.

    Meditation through focusing on one's breath is hugely helpful as it brings you away from the voice in your head, internal dialogue, excessive thought makes depression much more likely. Being free of thought and aware of the subtle sensations in your body can help greatly. If you feel depressed don't fight it, that only feeds the depression. Accept that there are sh1tty feelings in your body and sh1tty thoughts in your head, observe them and accept them, allow them to be. Keep your focus coming from a place where you are the observer of your thoughts and feelings.


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    #96
    Babooshka
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Babooshka


    gozunda wrote: »
    No it wasn't. Depression is a real medical condition as opposed to a vague mindset that can be automatically cured by self reflection etc. Sometimes there is a need need to cut the bs tbh. This has absolutely no basis in medical science whatsoever :mad: Drepresion needs recognition not transcedental belief systems.


    I think it was rough on them - you say different that is fine, we're on a discussion board after all. The poster didn't say their opinion ruled out depression being a medical condition and requiring medical treatment. But mental conditions are incredibly complex and we all know there is medical treatment and cognitive treatment and one doesn't give exclusivity over the other, ask any doctor. A holistic approach is generally best (holistic meaning looking at the whole picture, not advocating that we call "holistic" medicine).


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    #97
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Antarcticseal wrote: »
    How to allow Delores description of depression to be cured also still stands.

    Surrender to the present moment and what is stands, realising that your "story of who you are" is a false sense of self helps you find inner peace.

    Meditation through focusing on one's breath is hugely helpful as it brings you away from the voice in your head, internal dialogue, excessive thought makes depression much more likely. Being free of thought and aware of the subtle sensations in your body can help greatly. If you feel depressed don't fight it, that only feeds the depression. Accept that there are sh1tty feelings in your body and sh1tty thoughts in your head, observe them and accept them, allow them to be. Keep your focus coming from a place where you are the observer of your thoughts and feelings.

    And your qualification for curing 'depression'?

    Devores is an excellent personal account of his experience with depression.

    No where does Devore anywhere repeat your belief system ie ...
    Antarcticseal wrote: »
    Surrender to the present moment and what is stands, realising that your "story of who you are" is a false sense of self helps you find inner peace.

    That's lovely but about as relevant as a bunch of grapes in a brewery.

    Did you just join just to post about philosophy?


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    #98
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    gozunda wrote: »
    And your qualification for curing 'depression'?

    Devores is an excellent personal account of his experience with depression.

    No where does Devore anywhere repeat your belief system ie ...



    That's lovely but about as relevant as a bunch of grapes in a brewery.

    Did you just join to post about philosophy?

    In fairness to the poster, that philosophy was one of the main ways I overcame depression. I wouldn't dismiss it just because you disagree with it.


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    #99
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    sup_dude wrote: »
    In fairness to the poster, that philosophy was one of the main ways I overcame depression. I wouldn't dismiss it just because you disagree with it.

    It's the negation of depression as an diagnosable illness as opposed to having the incorrect philosophy of life that I have a serious problem with.

    While believing in something 'may' help. A belief system in itself is not treatment for depression. You could 'decide' to believe in the Flying Spahetti Monster' and that may work for you however throwing some vague tennents of philosophy at someone suffering severe clinical depression in the hope that it will magically cure them is as as much use a chocolate tea out imo.


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    #100
    Antarcticseal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10 ✭Antarcticseal


    [2quote="gozunda;91705814"]And your qualification for curing 'depression'?

    Devores is an excellent personal account of his experience with depression.

    No where does Devore anywhere repeat your belief system ie ...



    That's lovely but about as relevant as a bunch of grapes in a brewery.

    Did you just join just to post about philosophy?[/quote]

    Many people have been cured of depression from changing from becoming present and in the moment. I would say it's very useful.


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    #101
    Antarcticseal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10 ✭Antarcticseal


    gozunda wrote: »
    It's the negation of depression as an diagnosable illness as opposed to having the incorrect philosophy of life that I have a serious problem with.

    While believing I. Something 'may' help. A belief system in itself is not treatment for depression. You could 'decide' to believe in the Flying Spahetti Monster' and that may work for you however throwing some vague tennents of philosophy at someone suffering severe clinical depression in the hope that it will magically cure them is as as much use a chocolate tea out imo.


    It's not actually a belief system, it's a way of being, a clearer state of consciousness. Rather than being your thoughts, you realize you are the observer of your thoughts.

    You seem to be attached to the idea of depression as a diagnosable illness. Does it really make any bit of difference how one chooses to define it. People suffer from it, there are ways that have worked for many people to remove the depression.


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    #102
    chrysagon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭chrysagon


    Takes adjusting and adapting to situations in life


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    #103
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Antarcticseal wrote: »
    It's not actually a belief system, it's a way of being, a clearer state of consciousness. Rather than being your thoughts, you realize you are the observer of your thoughts.

    If it requires you to accept this premise then it's a belief system, since the above is not a statement of fact.


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    #104
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Antarcticseal wrote: »
    gozunda wrote: »
    And your qualification for curing 'depression'?

    Devores is an excellent personal account of his experience with depression.

    No where does Devore anywhere repeat your belief system ie ...

    That's lovely but about as relevant as a bunch of grapes in a brewery.

    Did you just join just to post about philosophy?

    Many people have been cured of depression from changing from becoming present and in the moment. I would say it's very useful.

    Fixed that for you

    So you keep repeating

    So 'many' is what number? I'm sorry but it's all pretty vague and sounds lovely but of little actual use imo.

    The question as to your qualifications in this field as you seem to have joined to largely post about philosophy. I didn't see any answer?


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    #105
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Antarcticseal wrote: »
    It's not actually a belief system, it's a way of being, a clearer state of consciousness. Rather than being your thoughts, you realize you are the observer of your thoughts.

    You seem to be attached to the idea of depression as a diagnosable illness. Does it really make any bit of difference how one chooses to define it. People suffer from it, there are ways that have worked for many people to remove the depression.

    YES! It's a very real and diagnosable illness. And that's according to medical experts. Apologies if you don't get that. Philosophy forum that away -)


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    #106
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Ok my 2 (highly uneducated) cents are that Depression is a long term medical condition not too dissimilar to the likes of Diabetes or Asthma. It shouldn't be about eradicating it, rather it should be about managing it. Different people manage their long term conditions in different ways, the key is in finding the management solution that works for the individual.


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    #107
    Babooshka
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Babooshka


    gozunda wrote: »
    YES! It's a very real and diagnosable illness. And that's according to medical experts. Apologies if you don't get that. Philosophy forum that away -)

    For a mental affliction that affects people in such a diverse manner, there are diverse ways of treating it and different people find different approaches work for them, you may not agree however it's a fact.

    I see you value deVore's experience highly, and while I don't find any fault with that, I do find your treatment of others because they differ a little on the strong side (in your past few posts), and a little odd. I related to what Dev posted about it myself but that doesn't mean I have to treat what other posters have to say with contempt or complete disregard. You just seem intent on dismissing Antarcticseal.


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    #108
    Reoil
    Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭Reoil


    I'M AN INTERNET WARRIOR EXPERT IN DEPRESSION, LISTEN TO ME!!! I KNOW MORE ABOUT IT THAN YOU!
    ALL CASES OF DEPRESSION ARE EXACTLY THE SAME AND SHOULD BE TREATED IDENTICALLY.


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    #109
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    gozunda wrote: »
    Fixed that for you

    So you keep repeating

    So 'many' is what number? I'm sorry but it's all pretty vague and sounds lovely but of little actual use imo.

    The question as to your qualifications in this field as you seem to have joined to largely post about philosophy. I didn't see any answer?


    There is some science behind it

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1744388113000674
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0965229913000988
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1056499314000303
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1551714414001141

    As for what the poster is talking about concerning thoughts, it's called mindfulness, and there's a science behind that too

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124160316000141
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124160316000037
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124160316000025


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    #110
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Babooshka wrote: »
    For a mental affliction that affects people in such a diverse manner, there are diverse ways of treating it and different people find different approaches work for them, you may not agree however it's a fact.

    I see you value deVore's experience highly, and while I don't find any fault with that, I do find your treatment of others because they differ a little on the strong side (in your past few posts), and a little odd. I related to what Dev posted about it myself but that doesn't mean I have to treat what other posters have to say with contempt or complete disregard. You just seem intent on dismissing Antarcticseal.

    Yes there are many way to to treat depression. However I have never seen philosophy prescribed a standard cure. The poster can believe whatever they like - it's still not going to make it medical science.

    Unfortunately many of the purported 'cures' such as mindset realignment leads depression to be seen as 'something to be laughed at' as indicated in Devores thread on the subject. Every condition has its quacks - it does not follow that we should all have to accept these as gospel either...


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    #111
    Babooshka
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Babooshka


    gozunda wrote: »
    Yes there are many way to to treat depression. I have never seen a philosophy given as a standard cure. The poster can believe whatever they like - it's still not going to make it medical science.

    Unfortunately many of the purported 'cures' such as mindset leads depression to be seen as 'something to be laugh at' as indicated in Devotes thread on the subject. Every condition has its quacks - it does not follow that we should all have to accept these as gospel either...

    You are labelling what Antarticseal had to say as merely philosophy. But not everyone agrees with you though.

    Black and white thinking is also another huge ally of depression.


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    #112
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    sup_dude wrote: »
    There is some science behind it

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1744388113000674
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0965229913000988
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1056499314000303
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1551714414001141

    As for what the poster is talking about concerning thoughts, it's called mindfulness, and there's a science behind that too

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124160316000141
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124160316000037
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124160316000025

    No mindfulness or any other accepted treatment does not match equating depression with a misaligned mindset or philosophy.


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    #113
    Antarcticseal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10 ✭Antarcticseal


    gozunda wrote: »
    YES! It's a very real and diagnosable illness. And that's according to medical experts. Apologies if you don't get that. Philosophy forum that away -)

    I neither said it was nor it wasn't.


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    #114
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Reoil wrote: »
    I'M AN INTERNET WARRIOR EXPERT IN DEPRESSION, LISTEN TO ME!!! I KNOW MORE ABOUT IT THAN YOU!
    ALL CASES OF DEPRESSION ARE EXACTLY THE SAME AND SHOULD BE TREATED IDENTICALLY.

    Like shouting much?

    It was not said that 'all cases of depression are exactly the same and should be treated equally'!

    The points are

    * Depresion is a defined medical condition

    *depression is not some vague misaligned mindset.

    *soundbite Philosophy sounds lovely but not one of the many prescribed treatments


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    #115
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    gozunda wrote: »
    No mindfulness or any other accepted treatment does not match equating depression with a misaligned mindset or philosophy.

    What the poster was describing was mindfulness and meditation. I can't see any evidence of her accusing anyone of having a misaligned philosophy. You were the only person to bring that up.


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    #116
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    sup_dude wrote: »
    What the poster was describing was mindfulness and meditation. I can't see any evidence of her accusing anyone of having a misaligned philosophy. You were the only person to bring that up.

    No he wasn't. I am aware of both and the poster effectively aligned depression with a misaligned mindset as opposed to a diagnosable medical condition. Ie
    Articseal wrote:
    You seem to be attached to the idea of depression as a diagnosable illness.


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    #117
    Antarcticseal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10 ✭Antarcticseal


    gozunda wrote: »
    No he wasn't. I am aware of both and the poster effectively aligned depression with a misaligned mindset as opposed to a diagnosable medical condition.

    Gozunda, take a Deep breath in through your nose, feel the air fill your lungs, exhale, feel the air leave through your mouth. While doing that were you suffering in any way?


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    #118
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    gozunda wrote: »
    No he wasn't. I am aware of both and the poster effectively aligned depression with a misaligned mindset as opposed to a diagnosable medical condition.


    Yes, he was. Did you read my links at all, or are you just going to go off on a tangent regardless?

    Here's another few, just in case
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mindfulness-in-frantic-world/201110/curing-depression-mindfulness-meditation

    http://podcasts.ox.ac.uk/series/new-psychology-depression
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140106190050.htm


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    #119
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Antarcticseal wrote: »
    Gozunda, take a Deep breath in through your nose, feel the air fill your lungs, exhale, feel the air leave through your mouth. While doing that were you suffering in any way?


    Excuse me? You appear to be a new poster that has very recently joined to opine your own version of what depression actually is whilst ignoring medical science. Before posting any further question directed at diagnosis as above please detail your medical qualifications etc?? Thanks


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    #120
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    sup_dude wrote: »
    Yes, he was. Did you read my links at all, or are you just going to go off on a tangent regardless?

    Here's another few, just in case
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mindfulness-in-frantic-world/201110/curing-depression-mindfulness-meditation

    http://podcasts.ox.ac.uk/series/new-psychology-depression
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140106190050.htm

    Thanks I have read extensively on the subject. But yes he was equating misaligned mindsets with depression
    Articseal wrote:
    You seem to be attached to the idea of depression as a diagnosable illness.

    I guess we will be discussing Demonic Possession shortly?

    I rest my case ...


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    #121
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    gozunda wrote: »
    Excuse me? You appear to be a new poster that has appeared to have recently joined to opine your own version of what depression actually is whilst ignoring medical science. Before posting anything else on 'cures' please detail your medical qualifications and what exactly you are suffering from??? Thanks

    I just posted 10 links to scientific articles and journals, which have extra references within them that say that mindfulness and meditation are a viable treatment for countering the affects of depression, and yet you accuse the poster that he's ignoring medical science?
    No, it mightn't work for everyone. However, it may (and has) worked for others. You cannot dismiss it as readily as you do, with no proof yourself.

    I took that quote as to say that you don't need doctors. Either way, you're dismissing it based on one quote which isn't relevant to the rest of his posts.


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