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Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

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    #722
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users Posts: 9,065 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    Mike is one of my favourite TV characters ever, but his death wasn't a sore point for me. He's a scumbag. An amusing one, but still a scumbag. I'm not saying it's black and white, people have shading but you can't deny scumbaggery.

    Kinda like Tony Soprano. Ever so entertaining to watch, but an absolutely crap human being.

    Say it to his face


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    #723
    Kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    Mike has a sort of code and some redeeming qualities. Tony Soprano had neither. Not a great comparison in my eyes.


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    #724
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Say it to his face

    I would and all.
    Kirby wrote: »
    Mike has a sort of code and some redeeming qualities. Tony Soprano had neither. Not a great comparison in my eyes.

    It's not a perfect comparison but let's not paint Mike as any kind of hero, he's still a scummer when it comes down to it. He's highly entertaining and intelligent but still pretty much a complete shít. Very difficult to feel sad for the death of someone who ended so many violently.

    And even Tony Soprano did have some redeeming qualities. His love of his kids was unquestionable. His kindness towards animals. He wasn't black and white either, and thank the lawd for that, how dull would that have been? But you're still to come to the conclusion that he was pretty much loathsome. I don't see it that much differently for Mike.


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    #725
    squonk
    Registered Users Posts: 8,833 ✭✭✭squonk


    I didn't mean to imply that Mike was some saint who didn't deserved to die. There's no question he was a scumbag but he was quite an entertaining character but his time came. What irked me was how it happened really and how Walt just snuffed him out, shooting him by that river bank. I suppose that's the great thing about BB. You'd expect Mike to go in a haze of bullets involving some serious badassery but he just happens to end up on the wrong side of Walt who shoots him on a whim.

    As for Jimmy, or slippin' Jimmy, I think he worked hard to become a lawyer. Yeah he's dodgy but he's got his heart in the right place. If he really was a scummy lawyer he'd be pulling some stunt to screw old ladies out of their inheritance I'd think. Am I the only one who suspects that his 'inventivness' and determination could have made him a great legitimate lawyer if Chuck had let him join HHM. Jimmy is a grifter who knows how to survive. When you've got damn all cases and an unrecognisable name then you have to do something. As an associate at HHM working legitimate cases he could have been a completely different man. If he's not screwing the seniors for their cash I'd say it's fair to think he's not going to screw Kettleman-like HHM clients either and drag the firm or himself into disrepute.


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    #726
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,325 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Yeh this. Everyone is pissed off at Chuck for the underhanded thing he did, but we're talking about "slippin' Jimmy" here. Jimmy's as dodgy as a €3 note, we all seem to forget that because he's the main character in the show. But he's not a trustworthy character. It's clear that Chuck doesn't trust him either and while his method of scuppering Jimmy's entry into HHM was nasty, I can see why he did it.

    Jimmy is an ambulance chaser extraordinaire. His focus is himself, not the client. Not that that's not the case for most layers, I'm sure, but Jimmy and his online degree, plus his nature is not something that Chucky is willing to stake his own reputation on.

    Lionel Hutz has absolutely nothing on him.

    Can't agree.

    I think the Slippin Jimmy namecalling by Chuck is just him reaching in his own mind to justify his bitter jealousy.

    The real reason is the warped sibling rivalry he has felt ever since Jimmy passed the Bar. All the "not a real lawyer", "slippin Jimmy" and University bashing were not legitimate reasons for a brother actively sabotaging you for years. It was purely the jealousy.


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    #727
    Magnate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Magnate


    I think this fits well

    7FrM8Ry.png


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    #728
    groovie
    Registered Users Posts: 807 ✭✭✭groovie


    Magnate wrote: »
    I think this fits well
    Snip

    Who is neutral evil in the picture?


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    #729
    Magnate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Magnate


    groovie wrote: »
    Who is neutral evil in the picture?

    Betsy Kettleman


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    #730
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,325 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Magnate wrote: »
    Betsy Kettleman

    Just gonna say she has great cans.


    Also, that Brady Bunch montage is pretty but doesn't make a great deal of sense to me!


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    #731
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Who is the Chaotic Good guy again? I'm drawing a blank.


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    #732
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    Who is the Chaotic Good guy again? I'm drawing a blank.

    I'm guessing the vet?


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    #733
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #734
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    I'm guessing the vet?
    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Vet? Still drawing a blank here. Must have spaced out during that episode.


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    #735
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #736
    Custardpi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    The vet was also the guy who got him the protection job in the latest episode.


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    #737
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    squonk wrote: »
    As for Jimmy, or slippin' Jimmy, I think he worked hard to become a lawyer. Yeah he's dodgy but he's got his heart in the right place. If he really was a scummy lawyer he'd be pulling some stunt to screw old ladies out of their inheritance I'd think. Am I the only one who suspects that his 'inventivness' and determination could have made him a great legitimate lawyer if Chuck had let him join HHM. Jimmy is a grifter who knows how to survive. When you've got damn all cases and an unrecognisable name then you have to do something. As an associate at HHM working legitimate cases he could have been a completely different man. If he's not screwing the seniors for their cash I'd say it's fair to think he's not going to screw Kettleman-like HHM clients either and drag the firm or himself into disrepute.

    There's a kernel of truth in Chuck's speech to Jimmy but the tragedy of the situation is that Chuck fails to recognise Jimmy's potential as a lawyer. He'll always be "Slippin' Jimmy" to Chuck even after he puts in the graft & smarts to land the Sandpiper case. I agree that if Chuck had trusted Jimmy and brought him into HHM he could have acted as a mentor to Jimmy and kept him on the straight & narrow.
    But by sabotaging jimmy's career Chuck is actually ensuring that his assessment of Jimmy as a lawyer will come to pass.


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    #738
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Whilst he got a degree of an internet college. He did pass the bar. Which as I've heard is a pretty fecking difficult thing to do in any state. He did all this whilst working the mailroom. He is a hard worker.

    From American Samoa though.... you can't get any dodgier than that. It isn't a proper state. They are american citizens there but they can't vote amongst other things. Why didn't he just pass the bar from somewhere locally? The degree was a joke


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    #739
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,325 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Deleted User wrote: »
    From American Samoa though.... you can't get any dodgier than that. It isn't a proper state. They are american citizens there but they can't vote amongst other things. Why didn't he just pass the bar from somewhere locally? The degree was a joke

    I am pretty sure you get your degree from American Samoa but that passing the bar is a universal, centralised test.

    i.e. whatever your education, everyone sits the same bar exam.

    So, the degree is secondary here.


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    #740
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #741
    Custardpi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    So the degree would give him the generalities of US law, then he'd have to swot up on the specificities of New Mexico law himself to be able to pass the local Bar exam. Interesting.


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    #742
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,397 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    From American Samoa though.... you can't get any dodgier than that. It isn't a proper state. They are american citizens there but they can't vote amongst other things. Why didn't he just pass the bar from somewhere locally? The degree was a joke

    Regardless of where he got the degree, it was a proper, recognised degree. Chuck was just too much of a snob to consider it being equal to his as it's something of a 'shortcut' degree, and that Jimmy didn't have to put in as much work as he did to get his. It's Chuck's superiority complex that's the problem here, not just where Jimmy got his degree from.


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    #743
    fisgon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭fisgon


    Just watched most of this series, it's terrific, I wasn't expecting much but it has far surpassed my hopes. Jimmy is a great, complex, layered character, I have to say I prefer him to Walter White. In fact, it may be sacrilege to suggest, but I reckon the first series of Better Call Saul is better than BB's first season.


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    #744
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,325 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    fisgon wrote: »
    Just watched most of this series, it's terrific, I wasn't expecting much but it has far surpassed my hopes. Jimmy is a great, complex, layered character, I have to say I prefer him to Walter White. In fact, it may be sacrilege to suggest, but I reckon the first series of Better Call Saul is better than BB's first season.

    Easily imo.


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    #745
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users Posts: 9,065 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Am I the only one on here who doesn't think Mike is a scumbag?


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    #746
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,413 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Greyjoy wrote: »
    There's a kernel of truth in Chuck's speech to Jimmy but the tragedy of the situation is that Chuck fails to recognise Jimmy's potential as a lawyer. He'll always be "Slippin' Jimmy" to Chuck even after he puts in the graft & smarts to land the Sandpiper case. I agree that if Chuck had trusted Jimmy and brought him into HHM he could have acted as a mentor to Jimmy and kept him on the straight & narrow.
    But by sabotaging jimmy's career Chuck is actually ensuring that his assessment of Jimmy as a lawyer will come to pass.

    Am I reading too much into it?

    But the Jimmy/Chuck dynamic is the inverse of the Jesse Pinkman/Walter White dynamic?

    Jimmy has potential but Chuck does not see it and Jimmy wastes it.

    Walter sees Jesse has potential and is happy to guide him. Then Jesse excels beyond the expectations of his teacher.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #747
    inforfun
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Am I the only one on here who doesn't think Mike is a scumbag?

    Never could get past season 1 of BB so i dont know Mike other than from season 1 here.
    So far, he hasnt been a scumbag (yet?) imo.


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    #748
    Strawberry Swan
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Strawberry Swan


    After the Chuck revelation, it makes more sense about something that happened in a previous episode. When Saul was having his party to celebrate passing his bar exams, Howard Hamlin had a quiet chat with him leaving him devastated. I presume saying something like "he'd never be welcome to work here". And presumably coming from Chuck.


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    #749
    Anachrony
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Anachrony


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    We don't know how it stacks up to that one, because there is no University of American Samoa in real life. All they have is a 2 year community college, which needless to say does not have a law program. The fictional UAS could be comparable to that.

    He likely got his degree from a shady diploma mill. But he had to study enough to pass the same New Mexico bar exam as every other lawyer in the state. It's not an easy test and requires a reasonable legal education to pass. So even if he is basically self taught with a dubious diploma, he's learned the basics one way or another.

    Apparently New Mexico's bar exam is considered one of the easier ones, as state bar exams go. But I don't think any of them are very easy.


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    #750
    FloatingVoter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭FloatingVoter


    noodler wrote: »
    I am pretty sure you get your degree from American Samoa but that passing the bar is a universal, centralised test.

    i.e. whatever your education, everyone sits the same bar exam.

    So, the degree is secondary here.

    My uncle is an Irish SC. Along the way due to various cases he has had to pass the bar in the UK (so he's a JC there although never treated as such, despite ranking as a QC / Silk here), Florida and Australia.
    One degree in law plus the bar here......and then three exams relating to law as practiced across the other three codes. To us, the bar is intimidating, to him it was rubbish to be done and dusted.
    The law degree may have an element of universality to it ... the bar is site specific.


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    #751
    SureYWouldntYa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,726 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    inforfun wrote: »
    Never could get past season 1 of BB so i dont know Mike other than from season 1 here.
    So far, he hasnt been a scumbag (yet?) imo.

    people like you is why it would be nice to keep all BB spoilers out of here


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