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Michael Jackson

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    #62
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    The way Jackson described his way of writing is actually quite similar to how Mozart supposedly did it in that he imagined each individual instrument sound in his mind before ever playing/singing a note. Afterwards he would go and reproduce each sound with his voice. There used to be a demo of Beat It out there, don't know if it exists any more, that shows exactly how he wrote with his voice. No, he wasn't a guitarist like Prince, but I don't think the term 'musician' can be limited to only those who can play an instrument well. Jackson used his voice as though it were several instruments better than some people can play one. He used his voice in the same way Bessie Smith and Louis Armstrong used theirs to imitate the sound of jazz instrumentation. It shows a great deal of musicality. How he couldn't be classed as a great musician is beyond me.


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    #63
    Hotfail.com
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Hotfail.com


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    The way Jackson described his way of writing is actually quite similar to how Mozart supposedly did it in that he imagined each individual instrument sound in his mind before ever playing/singing a note. Afterwards he would go and reproduce each sound with his voice. There used to be a demo of Beat It out there, don't know if it exists any more, that shows exactly how he wrote with his voice. No, he wasn't a guitarist like Prince, but I don't think the term 'musician' can be limited to only those who can play an instrument well. Jackson used his voice as though it were several instruments better than some people can play one. He used his voice in the same way Bessie Smith and Louis Armstrong used theirs to imitate the sound of jazz instrumentation. It shows a great deal of musicality. How he couldn't be classed as a great musician is beyond me.

    People seem to be confusing technically gifted people with musically gifted people. You can be the "best" guitarist in the world and still be shíte at writing music, and vice versa.


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    #64
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Hotfail.com wrote: »
    People seem to be confusing technically gifted people with musically gifted people. You can be the "best" guitarist in the world and still be shíte at writing music, and vice versa.
    Indeed ... Rory Gallagher ...


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    #65
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,247 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    Michael Jackson was a once in a lifetime talent. You only have to compare his music to current pop music to see how great the man was. We wont see the likes of him in pop music again.


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    #66
    D-FENS
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭D-FENS


    Piliger wrote: »
    He's dead now so every money grubbing piece of garbage is out to get their piece of the action. There will always be the gullible to believe anything they read.

    I'm very gullible at times for sure, but (pardon the pun) I couldn't give a sh*t if this is true or not really.


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    #67
    Hotfail.com
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Hotfail.com


    Piliger wrote: »
    Indeed ... Rory Gallagher ...

    He was an anomaly, great at both :pac:


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    #68
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Hotfail.com wrote: »
    He was an anomaly, great at both :pac:
    Yeah ... his songs and albums are still selling in their millions...


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    #69
    Matt_Trakker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Matt_Trakker


    He had a purple patch in the late 70s and 80s. His music was of his time, it has aged badly and will continue to do so.

    Of his 10 solo albums only 3 were of any worth; Off the Wall, Thriller and Bad....and Bad was hit and miss in places. Anything before or after them is pretty woeful.

    If he hadn't had such a strange personality/cult of celebrity he wouldn't have been nearly as successful as he was.


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    #70
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    If he hadn't had such a strange personality/cult of celebrity he wouldn't have been nearly as successful as he was

    I don't think so.
    I think his genius was universally obvious (as in, transcended cultures and ethnicities) and that's what made him successful. The odd behaviour was a by-product of success.

    My 2 kids under 8 are fans. Hardly know a thing about the man, just what he dresses like and his dancing from the videos, but they just responded to the music in the way we all did (almost ? I don't personally know anyone who doesn't like his hits).

    They don't really care about us is my all time favourite.

    I never believed any of the allegations against him.

    I don't think anyone can possibly say he was overrated. That's just trying to go against the grain. Being a genius doesn't necessarily mean you never fail so the less successful albums or songs are just part of the package.


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    #71
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    He had a handful of great songs and a load of forgettable ones.


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    #72
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    Piliger wrote: »
    He's dead now so every money grubbing piece of garbage is out to get their piece of the action.

    The remaining Jackson's chief among them, unfortunately.


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    #73
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Yamanoto wrote: »
    The remaining Jackson's chief among them, unfortunately.

    Well they are entitled to it and he would have been delighted that they get it. So I don't see what relevance they have to the issue.

    Will you see your children as "money grubbing piece of garbage" after you die and they get your house ?


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    #74
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    pickarooney wrote: »
    He had a handful of great songs and a load of forgettable ones.
    Well personally I don't believe there is a single forgettable one.


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    #75
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    And it's more than just a handful of hits really.


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    #76
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Hotfail.com wrote: »
    People seem to be confusing technically gifted people with musically gifted people. You can be the "best" guitarist in the world and still be shíte at writing music, and vice versa.

    And given his great ear for music and composition, I have no doubt that if Michael Jackson had really committed to a musical instrument, he probably could have played just about anything to a a very good standard. But then, if I could sing the way he could and come up multiple layers for a song using just my vocal chords, I probably wouldn't be too bothered about picking up a guitar either.


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    #77
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Piliger wrote: »
    Well personally I don't believe there is a single forgettable one.
    Ahem:



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    #78
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    Piliger wrote: »
    Well they are entitled to it and he would have been delighted that they get it. So I don't see what relevance they have to the issue.

    Will you see your children as "money grubbing piece of garbage" after you die and they get your house ?

    To clarify, I'm not speaking of his children (the prime beneficiaries of his estate), but his Father, Mother & various siblings, who would sell the mans soul if they felt it'd net 'em a couple of hundred bucks.


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    #79
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    The father is definitely a nasty piece of work. Even the other Jackson children attested to that. I feel quite sorry for all of them, but especially Michael, really. He was robbed of a childhood by an insanely pushy father and I honestly think he had body dysmorphia caused by abuse. I think a great deal of his weirdness probably found its roots in how he was treated growing up.


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    #80
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Yamanoto wrote: »
    To clarify, I'm not speaking of his children (the prime beneficiaries of his estate), but his Father, Mother & various siblings, who would sell the mans soul if they felt it'd net 'em a couple of hundred bucks.

    Well I am sure we can agree about his father. The brothers and sister are decent people and have no poor reputation for being nasty.


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    #81
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    The father is definitely a nasty piece of work. Even the other Jackson children attested to that. I feel quite sorry for all of them, but especially Michael, really. He was robbed of a childhood by an insanely pushy father and I honestly think he had body dysmorphia caused by abuse. I think a great deal of his weirdness probably found its roots in how he was treated growing up.
    Absolutely true. A truly tragic story. Life has a cruel way of taking with one hand while giving with the other, sometimes, and though it gave him, and through him us, an enormous amount, it took an enormous amount in return. I think he enjoyed very little real happiness in his life.


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    #82
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    One of his greatest moments:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLIUlaJsGwU


    He guested on that episode and wrote Happy Birthday Lisa, but a pseudonym was used instead of his name in the credits. He also only voiced the spoken bits; a Michael Jackson impersonator did the singing bits. This was all due to contractual obligation stuff.


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    #83
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    Over rated ? He was so ahead of his time back in the day, and his music... the majority of them were good.


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    #84
    ALiasEX
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭ALiasEX


    Magaggie wrote: »
    One of his greatest moments:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLIUlaJsGwU


    He guested on that episode and wrote Happy Birthday Lisa, but a pseudonym was used instead of his name in the credits. He also only voiced the spoken bits; a Michael Jackson impersonator did the singing bits. This was all due to contractual obligation stuff.
    And here is the actual Michael singing it


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    #85
    Minjor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 231 ✭✭Minjor


    Lenin Skynard wrote: »
    Got to be the stupidest comment I've ever read on this forum. Jackson could probably play several instruments to the highest level, his vocals and songwriting speak to that.

    I don't think he played at all, but he would come up with all the parts of the songs in his head and the session musicians would record his ideas after hearing Michael sing or hum these parts.


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    #86
    wandatowell
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    Always really really liked Beat It, fantastic guitar solo too.


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    #87
    ALiasEX
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭ALiasEX


    "One morning MJ came in with a new song he had written overnight. We called in a guitar player, and Michael sang every note of every chord to him. “'Here’s the first chord, first note, second note, third note. Here’s the second chord first note, second note, third note', etc etc. We then witnessed him giving the most heartfelt and profound vocal performance, live in the control room through an SM57.

    He would sing us an entire string arrangement, every part. Steve Porcaro once told me he witnessed MJ doing that with the string section in the room. Had it all in his head, harmony and everything. Not just little eight bar loop ideas. He would actually sing the entire arrangement into a micro-cassette recorder complete with stops and fills" - Rob Hoffman


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    #88
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    ALiasEX wrote: »
    "One morning MJ came in with a new song he had written overnight. We called in a guitar player, and Michael sang every note of every chord to him. “'Here’s the first chord, first note, second note, third note. Here’s the second chord first note, second note, third note', etc etc. We then witnessed him giving the most heartfelt and profound vocal performance, live in the control room through an SM57.

    He would sing us an entire string arrangement, every part. Steve Porcaro once told me he witnessed MJ doing that with the string section in the room. Had it all in his head, harmony and everything. Not just little eight bar loop ideas. He would actually sing the entire arrangement into a micro-cassette recorder complete with stops and fills" Rob Hoffman

    A lot of people don't know his method of composition and are amazed when they hear about it. It's better still to see and hear how he does it as in the clip below. It starts at about 11:20.




    Some context to the clip. It's a deposition that MJ gave in 1993 while on tour in Mexico in response to a copyright lawsuit claiming that he stole a number of songs including Thriller, We are the World and The Girl is Mine. MJ in his defense provided the original tape of him singing and discovering the girl is mine and he does exactly as you have described. The video is the leaked deposition. It's absolutely amazing to watch and listen.


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    #89
    ALiasEX
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭ALiasEX


    Michael couldn't even read music.


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    #90
    ALiasEX
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭ALiasEX


    Sheeps wrote: »
    A lot of people don't know his method of composition and are amazed when they hear about it. It's better still to see and hear how he does it as in the clip below. It starts at about 11:20.




    Some context to the clip. It's a deposition that MJ gave in 1993 while on tour in Mexico in response to a copyright lawsuit claiming that he stole a number of songs including Thriller, We are the World and The Girl is Mine. MJ in his defense provided the original tape of him singing and discovering the girl is mine and he does exactly as you have described. The video is the leaked deposition. It's absolutely amazing to watch and listen.
    I have listened to a lot of it. I love listening to the bit where he imitates a moog bass at 17:46.


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    #91
    Say Your Number
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,823 Mod ✭✭✭✭Say Your Number


    ALiasEX wrote: »
    Michael couldn't even read music.

    Neither could Jimi Hendrix or Tony Iommi.


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