Michael Jackson

Da Shins Kelly

purplepanda wrote: »

Greatest Musician? He denied being able to play any musical instrument during a court case where he was accused of stealing another artists composition.

He was talented but don't start the historical revisionism stuff. :pac:

Actually Michael Jackson had a pretty incredible way of writing music. He couldn't play instruments all that proficiently, but he built chords, harmonies, melody, bass and rhythm with only his voice on the demos for his songs and came up with the lyrics as he wrote the music. He didn't write in a traditional way at all with a pen, paper, guitar, etc., but the way he did write was pretty damn impressive. He wasn't your traditional musician, but the man had amazing musicality.

ardle1

Charlie19 wrote: »

Musically brilliant and I don't think three or five nights would of bothered him.

Gobbly gook....
I think that if He, his management, and the whole fcukin planet had prepared for 5 nights,, then he would, annnnd should expect 5 nights.
Thank you, hope I have made an enormous impact to this Thread.

Hotfail.com

purplepanda wrote: »

Greatest Musician? He denied being able to play any musical instrument during a court case where he was accused of stealing another artists composition.

He was talented but don't start the historical revisionism stuff. :pac:

Pfft, anyone can play an instrument to a reasonable degree if you give them enough time. You're either born with his kind of talent or you're not.

Lenin Skynard

purplepanda wrote: »

Greatest Musician? He denied being able to play any musical instrument during a court case where he was accused of stealing another artists composition.

He was talented but don't start the historical revisionism stuff. :pac:

Got to be the stupidest comment I've ever read on this forum. Jackson could probably play several instruments to the highest level, his vocals and songwriting speak to that.

purplepanda

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

Got to be the stupidest comment I've ever read on this forum. Jackson could probably play several instruments to the highest level, his vocals and songwriting speak to that.

If he was such a great musician why didn't he play a musical instrument on his many recordings? :pac:

You obviously don't have a understanding of the term "greatest musician" and you have the front to call me stupid :rolleyes:

I don't see any evidence that Jackson was a great musician, he even denied having such any such ability in a legal case, yet some fans attribute powers to him that he didn't possess! :eek:

Calling Jackson the "greatest musician" of his generation is laughable. :rolleyes:

Dolbert

^Your voice can be an instrument.

Links234

wouldn't be my type of music but he was an absolute legend

Tipsy McSwagger

Billie Jean is the greatest song of all time.

purplepanda

Dolbert wrote: »

^Your voice can be an instrument.

That won't make you the "greatest musician" of a generation in comparison to others who can sing, write songs & also play musical instruments! :pac:

For example Prince or symbol ^*(^&%)^ or whatever he calls himself nowadays

topper75

Everything he did musically was derivative. He never pushed the envelope really. To be great you MUST be a true innovator.

Dancing and performing was another matter. He was, and still is, the king in that regard.

Disturbing number of people out there equating 'popular' with 'good'. They need to meditate on flies swarming around a pile of dung. I discount record sales in evaluating an artist.

One thing I'm happy to give to MJ is he is from that glorious time when, if there was a mania about you, you had the talent to justify it. He was strange but he had a magic. He had a rough youth and deserved a happy old age. Shame about that.

Duggy747

One of the greatest entertainers who ever was, almost impossible not to sing along or tap a beat to one of his finer tunes.

bystarlight

purplepanda wrote: »

If he was such a great musician why didn't he play a musical instrument on his many recordings?

Where are you getting your info from??????

On Michael Jackson's HIStory album he played guitars, keyboards and synthesizers, drums and percussion.

He also did the string, vocal and keyboard arrangements on most (if not all) of his solo albums.

purplepanda

bystarlight wrote: »

Where are you getting your info from??????

Court case details here, he denied being able to play any instrument with sufficient skill. http://www.factfiend.com/michael-jackson-shot-plagiarism-suit-singing/

Yet some proclaim him the "greatest musician of his generation" :rolleyes:

Dolbert

purplepanda wrote: »

Court case details here, he denied being able to play any instrument with sufficient skill. http://www.factfiend.com/michael-jackson-shot-plagiarism-suit-singing/

Yet some proclaim him the "greatest musician of his generation" :rolleyes:

Is it the term 'musician' you're objecting to? Are you saying that someone who writes, arranges and performs their own music can't be considered a great musician, because their primary instrument is voice? Your definitions are all wrong I'm afraid

whirlpool

bystarlight wrote: »

Where are you getting your info from??????

On Michael Jackson's HIStory album he played guitars, keyboards and synthesizers, drums and percussion.

He also did the string, vocal and keyboard arrangements on most (if not all) of his solo albums.

In fairness, a lot of the credit attributed to artists in sleeve-notes is falsified.

And I'd definitely be inclined to believe what he says in court about being able to play instruments over what's written in sleeve notes.

bystarlight

purplepanda wrote: »

Court case details here, he denied being able to play any instrument with sufficient skill. http://www.factfiend.com/michael-jackson-shot-plagiarism-suit-singing/

Yet some proclaim him the "greatest musician of his generation" :rolleyes:

But you said he didn't play instruments on his many recordings.

That's not true. He did.

That court case was in 1994, he didn't die until 2009, 15 years later. He did play instruments on his later albums, HIStory (1995) and Invicible (2001). There's also pictures of him playing guitar and drums in the studio with the Jackson 5.

And not being able to play with sufficient skill, doesn't mean you can't play at all.

A voice IS an instrument, and song writing/arranging is certainly a form of musicianship, both of which he was brilliant at. He's wrote some of the best pop songs of the last few decades so I can understand why he is considered one of the "greatest musicians of his generation."

When people refer to his musicianship I don't think they're referring to his ability to play an instrument - musicianship isn't limited to playing instruments; there's composing, arranging, singing etc etc

I play guitar and piano, it certainly doesn't make me a better musician than Michael Jackson.

4Sticks

Out and out rock fan myself , my hereos being Led Zep , Stones, Rory Galagher , ACDC, the Doors etc.
I cannot deny Jacksons genius even if I would not buy his stuff.

Billy86

topper75 wrote: »

Everything he did musically was derivative. He never pushed the envelope really. To be great you MUST be a true innovator.

I guess we can also discount this guy, in that case:

Hotfail.com

purplepanda wrote: »

If he was such a great musician why didn't he play a musical instrument on his many recordings? :pac:

You obviously don't have a understanding of the term "greatest musician" and you have the front to call me stupid :rolleyes:

I don't see any evidence that Jackson was a great musician, he even denied having such any such ability in a legal case, yet some fans attribute powers to him that he didn't possess! :eek:

Calling Jackson the "greatest musician" of his generation is laughable. :rolleyes:

Anyone can play an instrument, anyone.

If anything it's a testament to his musicianship that he managed to write all those songs without being able to play anything.

grundie

I always thought of him as a great producer. Someone who was very good at surrounding himself with the best talent and being able to use their skills to make million selling records.

That being said, I could never see the appeal and I found it impossible to understand what he was saying.

purplepanda

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Anyone can play an instrument, anyone.

If anything it's a testament to his musicianship that he managed to write all those songs without being able to play anything.

Many singers will write lyrics & melodies & then use musicians to perform & record their songs or co-write with them. Jackson is certainly not unique in that regard.

"Anyone" can't play an instrument, I've seen dozens of people try & give up, sometimes after months of trying very hard.

Not disputing his musical talent & ability but Jackson can't be described as the greatest musician of his generation. There are too many other contenders to fit that description ahead of him IMO.

Hotfail.com

purplepanda wrote: »

Many singers will write lyrics & melodies & then use musicians to perform & record their songs or co-write with them. Jackson is certainly not unique in that regard.

"Anyone" can't play an instrument, I've seen dozens of people try & give up, sometimes after months of trying very hard.

Not disputing his musical talent & ability but Jackson can't be described as the greatest musician of his generation. There are too many other contenders to fit that description ahead of him IMO.

I don't agree that he's the greatest of his generation either, but to act like it's a ludicrous notion to think so is ridiculous.

Give anyone a guitar and in 2 years time, with practise of course, they'll become competent at it, the "months of trying hard" is just part of the learning process. Perseverance is key.

Piliger

Under rated - total genius.

TheGoldenAges

Funny was just reading this article on his living conditions

http://www.nme.com/news/michael-jackson/79094?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=michaeljackson

Dravokivich

Dolbert wrote: »

Is it the term 'musician' you're objecting to? Are you saying that someone who writes, arranges and performs their own music can't be considered a great musician, because their primary instrument is voice? Your definitions are all wrong I'm afraid

Being a great screenplay writer doesn't make someone a great actor. By all accounts it seems he was a very good composer who had a good understanding musical composition.

topper75

Billy86 wrote: »

I guess we can also discount this guy, in that case:

I once read about a certain moment involving change at 1963 Newport Folk Festival! Didn't go down well either.

His lyrics read like poetry, mesmerizing a generation and inspired even Lennon and the Beatles.

Dylan always moved furniture around musically - hardly playing the same thing twice at all. Not the greatest ever innovator, no, but definitely a leader rather than follower. Jackson wrote a few killer numbers but all involved pre-existing sounds of 80's 'pop' and he never pushed into other realms. Dylan worked with Danial Lanois and even when the voice aint the best he showed he could move into newer territory again with that big bluesy setup he currently tours with. Wacko innovated with stage shows etc. but music? No.

The comparison overall may not be fair given MJ was effectively limited to 2/3 decades. He might have gone on to show us something more had he lived. We'll never know.

Billy86

topper75 wrote: »

I once read about a certain moment involving change at 1963 Newport Folk Festival! Didn't go down well either.

His lyrics read like poetry, mesmerizing a generation and inspired even Lennon and the Beatles.

Dylan always moved furniture around musically - hardly playing the same thing twice at all. Not the greatest ever innovator, no, but definitely a leader rather than follower. Jackson wrote a few killer numbers but all involved pre-existing sounds of 80's 'pop' and he never pushed into other realms. Dylan worked with Danial Lanois and even when the voice aint the best he showed he could move into newer territory again with that big bluesy setup he currently tours with. Wacko innovated with stage shows etc. but music? No.

The comparison overall may not be fair given MJ was effectively limited to 2/3 decades. He might have gone on to show us something more had he lived. We'll never know.

I love Bob Dylan, don't get me wrong.

But here's the thing... his work is quite similar to what Tarantino does with films, a mish mash of other work that has come before him that has been gathered up and recombined into new work, often directly taking lyrics and riffs from songs of the time and decades prior. In recent years some have criticised him a good bit for it too, though personally I have no issue with it at all. It might even be fair to call that approach innovative in its own right, especially with how good he is at it, but not everyone would agree.

There are hundreds of articles about it to read on, but here is a good start http://www.music.lt/images/groups/1/451/Bob_Dylan/bob_dylan_yoga.jpg

As for Jackson, he did also cover a lot of motown sou d's we he was younger, switched this to a pseudo-disco type sound, and later 80s pop. I might be wrong on this, but I had always figured him as being close(r) to the forefront of that movement than others, though I do agree he had failed to move beyond it and with his mental state in layer years I don't really think he could have reinvented himself once more near the levels he had achieved in his earlier years. As you said though, I guess we will never know.

Laois_Man

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Great songwriter and performer can't deny that, I find sometimes people don't realise that he wrote most of his solo hits himself.

Statistically, in his 10 solo albums from the first one ('Got to be There') until the last one before he died ('Invincible'), there were 115 tracks (although a couple appeared twice) and MJ either wrote or helped to write 53 of them.

D-FENS

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Funny was just reading this article on his living conditions

http://www.nme.com/news/michael-jackson/79094?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=michaeljackson

Not just blood on the dance floor so

Piliger

D-FENS wrote: »

Not just blood on the dance floor so

He's dead now so every money grubbing piece of garbage is out to get their piece of the action. There will always be the gullible to believe anything they read.