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Free will is an illusion and the biggest con ever.

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    #152
    T-K-O
    Registered Users Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    This is an excellent talk on the subject

    http://youtu.be/_FanhvXO9Pk


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    #153
    Snowpavlova
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 30 ✭Snowpavlova


    Ted_YNWA wrote: »
    I am trying to see how snowpavlova is basing his theory that everything is predetermined.

    I am firmly with you in that DNA does not control everything.

    Every thing that occurs is a result of the interaction of atoms, molecules etc, including your thoughts, so how could it have been any different.


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    #154
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    Snowpavlova wrote: »
    Every thing that occurs is a result of the interaction of atoms, molecules etc, including your thoughts, so how could it have been any different.

    Yes, but your DNA can't predict environmental factors, so really, your whole life choices will not be predicted on your DNA.

    If I got seriously drunk and flooded my brain with synapse slowing molecules, I'm altering my choices -something completely removed from my DNA.

    DNA drives your primal instincts, it does not control every stupid, mundane choice you make like what clothes to wear out on the weekend. To think so EXTREMELY over simplifies the subject.


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    #155
    Snowpavlova
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 30 ✭Snowpavlova


    _Redzer_ wrote: »
    Yes, but your DNA can't predict environmental factors, so really, your whole life choices will not be predicted on your DNA.

    If I got seriously drunk and flooded my brain with synapse slowing molecules, I'm altering my choices -something completely removed from my DNA.

    DNA drives your primal instincts, it does not control every stupid, mundane choice you make like what clothes to wear out on the weekend. To think so EXTREMELY over simplifies the subject.

    The environment is predetermined,the movement of every atom in the universe is predetermined, every stupid mundane choice is predetermined as it is caused by the movements of atoms in your brain and body which is predetermined.


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    #156
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,959 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Ted_YNWA wrote: »
    I am trying to see how snowpavlova is basing his theory that everything is predetermined.

    I am firmly with you in that DNA does not control everything.
    This focus on DNA has the potential to derail this thread, though. Me, I stand by what I said earlier: in the absence of "free will", we have to conclude that human lives are deterministic. But DNA is only one piece of an extremely complex puzzle.

    Imagine the Sun spits out a solar flare, charged particles slam in to the upper atmosphere of the Earth, and communications are disrupted slightly. Someone tries to call you wih a bit of important news, but the first attempt fails and so you get the call a minute later than otherwise. Your life is now different. Good thing or bad thing? It depends. Do you blame the solar flare? But what caused the solar flare? Is it even correct to talk about "blame" at all? Can we trace all the possible causes back to a single point? Not likely.

    On a previous reply I started writing about Deepak Chopra and Quantum Mysticism, the idea that quantum mechanics at the subatomic level is responsible for "free will" and other things we can't and never will understand. It's probably too much for this thread, but (basically), if you're tempted to invoke quantum (whatever) in support of "free will", it's been tried. I think Douglas Adams did a particularly good job of imagining what would happen if quantum effects did manifest itself at our macroscopic scale. Imagine you could persuade all the atoms in a lady's underwear to migrate a foot to the left ... :P

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #157
    _Redzer_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    Snowpavlova wrote: »
    The environment is predetermined,the movement of every atom in the universe is predetermined, every stupid mundane choice is predetermined as it is caused by the movements of atoms in your brain and body which is predetermined.

    You're taking about the physics of these things which can predict the path and movement they will take, but me getting drunk and flooding my brain with alcohol, which alters my thinking, was not a predetermined process. It's not like I was always meant to get drunk, or to whatever degree. It's not that simple.


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    #158
    Snowpavlova
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 30 ✭Snowpavlova


    _Redzer_ wrote: »
    You're taking about the physics of these things which can predict the path and movement they will take, but me getting drunk and flooding my brain with alcohol, which alters my thinking, was not a predetermined process. It's not like I was always meant to get drunk, or to whatever degree. It's not that simple.

    Yes you were always meant to get drunk, the atoms of the universe couldn't have interacted any differently up until the point you got drunk. You were always going to get drunk. You were always going to post the above post, it was an inevitable result of an incredibly long chain of Dominos.

    What do you think produces your thoughts? Magic? It's a deterministic process caused by a particluar interaction of atoms, the only way those atoms could have interacted.


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    #159
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mod

    Snowpavlova, re reg troll, banned.


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