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Vladamir Putin a clear and present danger to peace in Europe.
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Putin was reported to have an 87% approval rating in Russia…From here we can see some people thing he is scum…Surely things aren’t as black and white as he’s good or he’s bad?
In 1934,Hitler had an approval rating of 90%. Surely things aren't as black and white as he's good or bad.
Things that result in my conclusions about Putin. Backing military in Ukraine, Annexing Crimea, the poor human rights record which include clearly homophobic laws that result in violence against LGBT(plenty of paedophilia innuendo about them directly from him too) . Jailing of his opposition, be you protester or politician. Control of the press which includes Russia as one of the most dangerous countries for a journalist to operate in. Those political assassinations he's suspected to have funded too.
Popularity can be from a state of fear or even cult of personality. It doesn't really gauge a person being a decent peaceful human being. I imagine many would simply be fearful of voting the wrong way in such a survey.0 -
Busted Flat. wrote: »On Twitter
US intell. sources had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian gov forces were to blame.
Chickens come home to roost.
What will the families have to say about their kids being used as pawns in a sick situation like this. Their governments lied to the famlies.
Twitter is your source! Not even a handle or mentioning who it was from? That type of stuff is mocked in the soccer forum for transfer gossip stuff, so it's hardly credible for saying that the Ukranian Govt. Shot down the plane. Seriously, some man down the pub is as credible as some guy on Twitter!Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Twitter is your source! Not even a handle or mentioning who it was from? That type of stuff is mocked in the soccer forum for transfer gossip stuff, so it's hardly credible for saying that the Ukranian Govt. Shot down the plane. Seriously, some man down the pub is as credible as some guy on Twitter!
As I said I picked it up on twitter, I have followed this tragedy from day one, the reporting and speculation in the first few days and following days were disgraceful. The black ops used by the US information center is falling apart. Criticize the post I put up, give it 24/48 hours then critize me.0 -
So this is a return to the norm for 19thC liberal interventionism? That the intelligentsia gets worked up above failure of more authoritarian states to live up to there higher rights standards and instead of a policy is not driven by national sense interest or based on alliances. Thus, what will be the economic price to be paid for the defence of Ukraine or to paraphrase Bismark, what's the going rate for the Pomeranian grenadier bones.0
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It's funny reading this thread when you read some poster saying Putin is great man or some rubbish like that. best joke o heard for a while0
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I admit it I don't watch RT, I do discount what they report because they have shown to be tainted.
I do use a lot of other sources. .
So you don’t watch RT but you immediately maintain they are not worth watching…..sure makes sense…Have you read what you wrote?Any chance you can post up an article for this because I don't do the whole youtube gig. Also TV stations make mistakes on occasion. If you can demonstrate that the BBC are continually and deliberately reporting erroneous information as facts then you have a case. If you are posting up the odd anomaly then you need to go back to the drawing board.
Here’s the where the original video was…
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BV_eYXCCYAAsH-9.jpg:large
The BBC put up the copyright claim within 2 hours. .[/QUOTE]
I’ve shown you the BBC caught with their pants down….show me RT doing the same and stop rambling about how they are tainted even though you don’t watch RT.So is everyone else hence the stance that RT is a very tainted source and can not be relied upon to report facts. .
As I have said earlier I use a lot of varied sources and use them normally to back each other up. I will go on the record and say that I do believe that the BBC do make a geniue effort to report the news as they find it and succeed and I do believe that RT are a tainted organisation and a mouthpiece for the Putin regime.
Now can we get back to the topic at hand and can you counter the core of this discussion that Putin is a danger to European Peace.
Ah good…you’re going on record LOL
I’ll go on record in saying that most Western media report the same thing with the same point of view from Ukraine to Israel to Syria….it’s all the same whether it is BBC, RTE, NBC or Australian news.
Clearly Russia Today is the Kremlin’s news channel but isn’t it good that they showed up Victoria Nuland arranging the Ukrainian government that toppled the democratically elected one?
I didn’t get that from the BBC.
Putin helped stop the NATO bombing campaign in Syria and so saved lives. He questioned who gave NATO the authority to bomb Libya….I don’t think Putin is a good guy at all….I just think Obama and the US are a greater threat to world peace than Russia are.In 1934,Hitler had an approval rating of 90%. Surely things aren't as black and white as he's good or bad. .
For some reason people think Communism is ok today and National Socialism is bad…They are both similar to me…Difference is National Socialism is responsible for approximately 40 million deaths ,while Communism is responsible for 100 million deaths.
I don’t question the 90% itself…I would question the origin of it…Same as with Putin. There is more to the Nazis origin than Hitler being a bad guy but that is another discussion. .Things that result in my conclusions about Putin. Backing military in Ukraine, Annexing Crimea, the poor human rights record which include clearly homophobic laws that result in violence against LGBT(plenty of paedophilia innuendo about them directly from him too) . Jailing of his opposition, be you protester or politician. Control of the press which includes Russia as one of the most dangerous countries for a journalist to operate in. Those political assassinations he's suspected to have funded too.
Popularity can be from a state of fear or even cult of personality. It doesn't really gauge a person being a decent peaceful human being. I imagine many would simply be fearful of voting the wrong way in such a survey.
Ok, so, now I get it….Because you disagree with something you think Putin stands for regarding gays you think he is wrong about Ukraine? Two different issues but anyway…… Backing Russians in Ukraine? You have a problem with that? After the West helps overthrow a democratically elected government and supports neo Nazis you have a problem with Putin helping Russians in a neighbouring country? So you think he should let the Neo Nazis do their work on the Russian population in Ukraine….Would he even be leader of Russia if he allowed that to happen?
Do you know the Russian laws regarding gays by the way? Or do you just know what you’ve read in western news?0 -
sin_city wrote:The frustration people that investigate and question things have is that we used to dismiss stuff as CT like you and we are trying to drag people to start questioning the motives for events that occur.
rt russian bull. This is bull you hear on rt channel sponsored russian putins government
Putin might help if he talk to his pro Russians in Ukraine to let people there pickup up the rest of human body parts from plane crash and return to there family's0 -
KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »rt russian bull. This is bull you hear on rt channel sponsored russian putins government
Putin might help if he talk to his pro Russians in Ukraine to let people there pickup up the rest of human body parts from plane crash and return to there family's
As I said, we know it is straight out of the Kremlin...however....are you glad you know that The Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs was caught arranging the Ukrainian government after helping topple the democratically elected one?
I heard this through RT....I also read about the the China Russia $400 billion gas deal through RT....I want all the information so I can make my own mind up....
What do you want?0 -
So you don’t watch RT but you immediately maintain they are not worth watching…..sure makes sense…Have you read what you wrote?
No I don't watch RT the same way I don't watch Fox News. I have seen them and tbh the only way I can describe my attitude to them is to adapt a quote from a mediocre film.
"RT have been weighed. RT have been measured. And RT have absolutely... Been found wanting. "
If you want to use them as your primary source then feel free. You are probably doing yourself a major disservice as the vast majority of posters here will discount you views accordingly.
Here are a few links for you to digest about the channel you are cheerleading and also Russian media in general. I have a feeling you will discount most so we'll have to agree to disagree I feel.
http://mashable.com/2014/08/06/inside-rt-russia/
http://time.com/3014822/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-rt-russian-television/
http://www.ibtimes.com/mh17-russian-media-why-kremlins-propaganda-machine-so-effective-1634864
http://www.newrepublic.com/node/118782
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/22/world/europe/malaysia-plane-crash-propaganda-war/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/17/crimea-crisis-russia-propaganda-media
http://online.wsj.com/articles/arkady-ostrovsky-putins-ukraine-unreality-show-1406590397
http://www.stopfake.org/en/rt-covers-the-shooting-down-of-mh17/
http://www.businessinsider.com/rt-malaysia-airlines-ukraine-2014-7
http://www.utne.com/media/conspiracy-channel-russia-today-anti-american-propaganda.aspx?PageId=1#axzz39mnk7x7z
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/listeningpost/2011/03/201132714649315858.htmlHere’s the where the original video was…
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BV_eYXCCYAAsH-9.jpg:large
The BBC put up the copyright claim within 2 hours. .
Yes but that really doesn't demonstate that the BBC is systematically misrepresenting or fabricating the facts as RT and other Russian state controlled media are doing (see above extensive links for examples).I’ve shown you the BBC caught with their pants down….show me RT doing the same and stop rambling about how they are tainted even though you don’t watch RT.
See above links.Ah good…you’re going on record LOL
I’ll go on record in saying that most Western media report the same thing with the same point of view from Ukraine to Israel to Syria….it’s all the same whether it is BBC, RTE, NBC or Australian news.
Prove that please.Clearly Russia Today is the Kremlin’s news channel but isn’t it good that they showed up Victoria Nuland arranging the Ukrainian government that toppled the democratically elected one?
I didn’t get that from the BBC.
The Ukrainian Parliament consists of the same representatives that were in place before the ousting of the ex-President and there has been a new election for the vacant position. Democracy is working fine in the Ukraine.Putin helped stop the NATO bombing campaign in Syria and so saved lives. He questioned who gave NATO the authority to bomb Libya….I don’t think Putin is a good guy at all….I just think Obama and the US are a greater threat to world peace than Russia are.
Fair enough those are your positives for Putin but it doesn't remove the fact that he is a Danger here in Europe which is the central premise of this argument.
Do you think he was right in annexing the Crimea?
Do you think he is right to provide support to the terrorists/freedom fighters/separatists (use whatever label you want for them) in Eastern Ukraine.Ok, so, now I get it….Because you disagree with something you think Putin stands for regarding gays you think he is wrong about Ukraine? Two different issues but anyway…… Backing Russians in Ukraine? You have a problem with that? After the West helps overthrow a democratically elected government and supports neo Nazis you have a problem with Putin helping Russians in a neighbouring country? So you think he should let the Neo Nazis do their work on the Russian population in Ukraine….Would he even be leader of Russia if he allowed that to happen?
The Ukrainian Parliament consists of the same representatives that were elected to it before the ousting of the tainted President. I see no overthrow of democracy as you state. I see an impeached President ousted and a new one ELECTED. That would appear to be democracy renewed. Anyway Ukraine is a side issue to this topic. The actual Topic on hand is about Putins and his danger to peace in Europe.
Well he is allowing known Russian Neo-Nazi's to go and fight in the Ukraine? There is a very sizable Neo-Nazi population in Russia as well.Do you know the Russian laws regarding gays by the way? Or do you just know what you’ve read in western news?
Again thank god we are back talking about Putin and Russia. How about you enlighten us about the Russia laws regarding the LGBT community then?0 -
Reading - admittedly only briefly - on the topic of the Soviet occupation of Baltic states such as Estonia, it is clear to me that the Soviet's aim was nothing less than the total destruction of various nationalities and national identities, and that they were prepared to colonise, deport and kill to the fullest extent necessary to make that happen.The question was as to the difference between Stalins crimes and Hitlers. Stalins aim was not the elimination of the Ukrainian people, and thus the deaths were incidental, in that genocide was not his goal. Please don't take my posts out of context like this, it's intellectual dishonesty of the worst order.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia#Soviet_Estonia
(emphasis mine)More than 200,000 people are estimated to have been deported from the Baltic in 1940–1953. In addition, at least 75,000 were sent to Gulag.More than 10% of the entire adult Baltic population was deported or sent to Soviet labour camps. In response to the continuing insurgency against Soviet rule, more than 20,000 Estonians were forcibly deported either to labour camps or Siberia. Almost all of the remaining rural households were collectivised.
After World War II, as part of the goal to more fully integrate Baltic countries into the Soviet Union, mass deportations were conducted in the Baltic countries and the policy of encouraging Soviet immigration to the Baltic states continued. In addition to the human and material losses suffered due to war, thousands of civilians were killed and tens of thousands of people deported from Estonia by the Soviet authorities until Joseph Stalin's death in 1953.
That rises to the level of genocide as far as I am concerned.
Ominously, it should also be noted that the first recorded incident of a civilian airliner being shot down (intentionally or otherwise) by a national military was committed by the Soviet Union, in connection with its plan to annex and destroy Estonia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleva_(airplane)
Sounds a bit like history repeating itself to me.
You specifically said in that thread that Stalin wasn't as bad as Hitler because Stalin didn't mean to kill so many people ... despite his actions clearly being at best recklessness verging on intent.You seemed to imply I've commented on others, specifically Estonia. Wheres the quote and link regarding that?
You repeated the claim - in bold - here that Stalin's aim was not the extermination of entire peoples when it's absolutely crystal clear that it was - and that this is one of the reasons for the current difficulties in the Ukraine today.0 -
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For some reason people think Communism is ok today and National Socialism is bad…They are both similar to me…Difference is National Socialism is responsible for approximately 40 million deaths ,while Communism is responsible for 100 million deaths.
I don’t question the 90% itself…I would question the origin of it…Same as with Putin. There is more to the Nazis origin than Hitler being a bad guy but that is another discussion. .
Ok, so, now I get it….Because you disagree with something you think Putin stands for regarding gays you think he is wrong about Ukraine? Two different issues but anyway…… Backing Russians in Ukraine? You have a problem with that? After the West helps overthrow a democratically elected government and supports neo Nazis you have a problem with Putin helping Russians in a neighbouring country? So you think he should let the Neo Nazis do their work on the Russian population in Ukraine….Would he even be leader of Russia if he allowed that to happen?
Do you know the Russian laws regarding gays by the way? Or do you just know what you’ve read in western news?
Really you failed to address most of my points(addressing may be the wrong words tbh) and yes I'm perfectly aware. I guarantee you if a western state put out the same law, you would condemn it. But since it's mother Russia, you go western conspiracy on it.
The gay law is one of many reasons of why I view a Putin as a dangerous and evil individual tbh. I'm never going to trust a man who jails his opponents tbh or annexes a state with a clearly illegal referendum.0 -
Busted Flat. wrote: »As I said I picked it up on twitter, I have followed this tragedy from day one, the reporting and speculation in the first few days and following days were disgraceful. The black ops used by the US information center is falling apart. Criticize the post I put up, give it 24/48 hours then critize me.
http://newsdaily.com/2014/08/07/ukraine-government-suspends-ceasefire-at-mh17-crash-site-after-recovery-
Why would the Ukrainian "government" suspend the ceasefire at the crash site? It can only be to disrupt the investigators. What is there to hide? Surely Russia and is 100% responsible? Interesting to note that a team of US military personnel arrived in Kiev two days ago to "investigate" the shooting down of MH17.
Events are unfolding.
* I ask yesterday who exactly is in control of the Ukraine government and it appears nobody knows. Arseniy Yatsenyuk resigned as PM, now he's PM again. The shadowy Interior Ministry and their ultra nationalist militias seem to hold the power in Kiev.0 -
Umm ... the Ukraine is effectively bankrupt, and fighting a defensive war against a large, scummy aggressive neighbour that has a long history of aggression, conquest and genocide against it, including large scale colonisation. All having only recently liberated itself from being within the sphere of influence of said neighbour, whose filthy, corrupt slimeball puppet leader robbed the country blind. Ukrainian gov't was always chaotic even at the best of times.Elmer Blooker wrote: »* I ask yesterday who exactly is in control of the Ukraine government and it appears nobody knows. Arseniy Yatsenyuk resigned as PM, now he's PM again. The shadowy Interior Ministry and their ultra nationalist militias seem to hold the power in Kiev.
I'd be more surprised if their government was NOT in chaos under these circumstances.0 -
The Ukrainian Gov't seem to be consulting the Israeli handbook of "defensive" warfare then. http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/08/07/major_hospital_in_eastern_ukraine_city_of_donetsk_hit_by_shelling.htmlUmm ... the Ukraine is effectively bankrupt, and fighting a defensive war against a large, scummy aggressive neighbour that has a long history of aggression, conquest and genocide against it, including large scale colonisation. All having only recently liberated itself from being within the sphere of influence of said neighbour, whose filthy, corrupt slimeball puppet leader robbed the country blind. Ukrainian gov't was always chaotic even at the best of times.
I'd be more surprised if their government was NOT in chaos under these circumstances.0 -
Currently, from what I remember reading from BBC news, Brazil is quite miffed with the US over allegations of wide spread NSA surveillance activities in that country. Any measures which tweak the noses of their neighbours to the North would be likely prove populare with sections of the Brazillian populace who've had issues with them over the years. Thus might act as a distraction to internal issues (which perhaps Putin can advise them on.) hence any US pressure bluff might be called.
At the end of the day, as the expression goes: "Money talks, bullsh1t walks". Brazil may bluster (as any country might), but practical, prudent reality tends to outweighs rank populism where economic matters are concerned, and few countries will cut off the proverbial own nose to spite the face.A belief that he wants to recreate the heady days of a Soviet Union Mk2 are wide of the mark imo. My gut feeling is he wants to create an EU type organisation for trade etc. Unsurprisingly he'd want to keep it on a tight reign.
There's a word that can sum up that belief: "Empire".0 -
At the end of the day, as the expression goes: "Money talks, bullsh1t walks". Brazil may bluster (as any country might), but practical, prudent reality tends to outweighs rank populism where economic matters are concerned, and few countries will cut off the proverbial own nose to spite the face.
There's a word that can sum up that belief: "Empire".
I was under the impression it was the US that was empire building.0 -
Busted Flat. wrote: »I was under the impression it was the US that was empire building.
Whataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhatabout .... kittens?!!!!!
If you want to talk about the US, go create a thread to talk about the US. What the US does or does not do does not absolve or excuse Putin's shameful and deeply cynical behaviour.0 -
There is honestly no point to this thread.
All it is is a bunch of misinformed russophobic berators whining about a leader, who they truly, truly believe is directly involved in every malevolent political move and human rights violation in the past decade.
So let me bring this thread back to the point.
He is a threat to peace in Europe? Please, evidence, and not in the form of some silly journalist's rant about Putin's so called bid for a New Empire.
Where is the evidence of this?
Whether you people and Washington like it or not, Crimea was lawfully annexed by the Russian Federation. It was a democratic vote, maybe not the one Washington liked, but there is no evidence to the contrary.
Crimea has traditionally been Russian, with an majority population of ethnic Russians, and a Naval base that has been there for hundreds of years.
Source: Anywhere, look it up.
Had there been bloodshed fighting the annexation, it would be a different story, but there was none.
You also seem to believe and talk like Putin is the sole political and juristic entity in the whole of Russia, and there exists not a cabinet of ministers or a state Duma. I'll gently remind you that this presumption is incorrect, and many decisions are not made by Putin.
Let me remind you that it is Russia that revealed the truth about the chemical weapons in Syria and who was using them, and it is Russia who granted asylum to the clandestine whistleblower, Edward Snowden, who, had he been arrested by the American Forces for Democracy and Freedom, would be rotting away in Guantanamo Bay.
'Putin has a poor record of Human Rights'
He does? I never knew his human rights were violated.
No doubt Pussy Riot comes to mind. Despite their sentence being handed out by a federal judge, it is the presumption that Putin, so angered by a 'rock' group singing bad things about him in a church, gave them 2 years personally. If you've ever actually followed Putin, his behavior, his mannerisms, he doesn't strike as the kind of man that would risk political outcry because some girls hurt his feelings.
I recommend you watch how US cops deal with Human Rights these days. Let me sum it up for you: mace, tazers batons, and corruption.
No, I'm not bothered with sources because you can find all this yourself and I haven't got time nor the permission to root around for links.
But to bring it back to Putin's expansionism, look up how many Russian bases there are on foreign soil, then look at how many US bases there are on foreign soil.
Look at how many conflicts the US has been involved in since WW2, and look how many conflicts Russia has been involved in since WW2
I'll reiterate, to make sound judgement, once must have something to compare with, and what you people are saying is just rubbish.
Finally, have any of you ever spoken to actual Russians? (woah, scary stuff right?)
I have spoken to a few, about the Soviets deportations, about its expansion, about Syria, America and Ukraine, and let me tell you, once you can muster the courage to pull your heads out of your asses, widen the spectra of your narrow little minds and swallow your pride, you'll come to the conclusion that more and more people are getting tired of the US's world and media string-pulling and that there is more to the world than 'America is good because they make hollister and blu-ray' and 'Russia is bad because America tells me so and I like my blu-ray'
And don't bother snap back at this post with some 'witty' satire, I won't waste my time trying to convince stubborn mules that there is more to consider.
But let me tell you, it is fools like you who will start the next war.0 -
FRoZeNxPyRo wrote: »There is honestly no point to this thread.
All it is is a bunch of misinformed russophobic berators whining about a leader, who they truly, truly believe is directly involved in every malevolent political move and human rights violation in the past decade.
So let me bring this thread back to the point.
He is a threat to peace in Europe? Please, evidence, and not in the form of some silly journalist's rant about Putin's so called bid for a New Empire.
Where is the evidence of this?
Whether you people and Washington like it or not, Crimea was lawfully annexed by the Russian Federation. It was a democratic vote, maybe not the one Washington liked, but there is no evidence to the contrary.
Crimea has traditionally been Russian, with an majority population of ethnic Russians, and a Naval base that has been there for hundreds of years.
Source: Anywhere, look it up.
Had there been bloodshed fighting the annexation, it would be a different story, but there was none.
You also seem to believe and talk like Putin is the sole political and juristic entity in the whole of Russia, and there exists not a cabinet of ministers or a state Duma. I'll gently remind you that this presumption is incorrect, and many decisions are not made by Putin.
Let me remind you that it is Russia that revealed the truth about the chemical weapons in Syria and who was using them, and it is Russia who granted asylum to the clandestine whistleblower, Edward Snowden, who, had he been arrested by the American Forces for Democracy and Freedom, would be rotting away in Guantanamo Bay.
'Putin has a poor record of Human Rights'
He does? I never knew his human rights were violated.
No doubt Pussy Riot comes to mind. Despite their sentence being handed out by a federal judge, it is the presumption that Putin, so angered by a 'rock' group singing bad things about him in a church, gave them 2 years personally. If you've ever actually followed Putin, his behavior, his mannerisms, he doesn't strike as the kind of man that would risk political outcry because some girls hurt his feelings.
I recommend you watch how US cops deal with Human Rights these days. Let me sum it up for you: mace, tazers batons, and corruption.
No, I'm not bothered with sources because you can find all this yourself and I haven't got time nor the permission to root around for links.
But to bring it back to Putin's expansionism, look up how many Russian bases there are on foreign soil, then look at how many US bases there are on foreign soil.
Look at how many conflicts the US has been involved in since WW2, and look how many conflicts Russia has been involved in since WW2
I'll reiterate, to make sound judgement, once must have something to compare with, and what you people are saying is just rubbish.
Finally, have any of you ever spoken to actual Russians? (woah, scary stuff right?)
I have spoken to a few, about the Soviets deportations, about its expansion, about Syria, America and Ukraine, and let me tell you, once you can muster the courage to pull your heads out of your asses, widen the spectra of your narrow little minds and swallow your pride, you'll come to the conclusion that more and more people are getting tired of the US's world and media string-pulling and that there is more to the world than 'America is good because they make hollister and blu-ray' and 'Russia is bad because America tells me so and I like my blu-ray'
And don't bother snap back at this post with some 'witty' satire, I won't waste my time trying to convince stubborn mules that there is more to consider.
But let me tell you, it is fools like you who will start the next war.
Is that you Vladimir?
Crimea is not traditionaly Russian. Stalin deported the ethnic tartar people and Russians were put in.
The vote was carried out with Russian troops stationed in Crimea so not so democratic.
I suggest you read the unlikely rise of Vladimir Putin and stop getting your info from Russian state controlled media which is completely run by Putin.
As for the rest of your argument it's bordering on pro Putin propaganda .0 -
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FRoZeNxPyRo wrote: »There is honestly no point to this thread.
All it is is a bunch of misinformed russophobic berators whining about a leader, who they truly, truly believe is directly involved in every malevolent political move and human rights violation in the past decade.
So let me bring this thread back to the point.
He is a threat to peace in Europe? Please, evidence, and not in the form of some silly journalist's rant about Putin's so called bid for a New Empire.
Where is the evidence of this?
Whether you people and Washington like it or not, Crimea was lawfully annexed by the Russian Federation. It was a democratic vote, maybe not the one Washington liked, but there is no evidence to the contrary.
Crimea has traditionally been Russian, with an majority population of ethnic Russians, and a Naval base that has been there for hundreds of years.
Source: Anywhere, look it up.
Had there been bloodshed fighting the annexation, it would be a different story, but there was none.
You also seem to believe and talk like Putin is the sole political and juristic entity in the whole of Russia, and there exists not a cabinet of ministers or a state Duma. I'll gently remind you that this presumption is incorrect, and many decisions are not made by Putin.
Let me remind you that it is Russia that revealed the truth about the chemical weapons in Syria and who was using them, and it is Russia who granted asylum to the clandestine whistleblower, Edward Snowden, who, had he been arrested by the American Forces for Democracy and Freedom, would be rotting away in Guantanamo Bay.
'Putin has a poor record of Human Rights'
He does? I never knew his human rights were violated.
No doubt Pussy Riot comes to mind. Despite their sentence being handed out by a federal judge, it is the presumption that Putin, so angered by a 'rock' group singing bad things about him in a church, gave them 2 years personally. If you've ever actually followed Putin, his behavior, his mannerisms, he doesn't strike as the kind of man that would risk political outcry because some girls hurt his feelings.
I recommend you watch how US cops deal with Human Rights these days. Let me sum it up for you: mace, tazers batons, and corruption.
No, I'm not bothered with sources because you can find all this yourself and I haven't got time nor the permission to root around for links.
But to bring it back to Putin's expansionism, look up how many Russian bases there are on foreign soil, then look at how many US bases there are on foreign soil.
Look at how many conflicts the US has been involved in since WW2, and look how many conflicts Russia has been involved in since WW2
I'll reiterate, to make sound judgement, once must have something to compare with, and what you people are saying is just rubbish.
Finally, have any of you ever spoken to actual Russians? (woah, scary stuff right?)
I have spoken to a few, about the Soviets deportations, about its expansion, about Syria, America and Ukraine, and let me tell you, once you can muster the courage to pull your heads out of your asses, widen the spectra of your narrow little minds and swallow your pride, you'll come to the conclusion that more and more people are getting tired of the US's world and media string-pulling and that there is more to the world than 'America is good because they make hollister and blu-ray' and 'Russia is bad because America tells me so and I like my blu-ray'
And don't bother snap back at this post with some 'witty' satire, I won't waste my time trying to convince stubborn mules that there is more to consider.
But let me tell you, it is fools like you who will start the next war.
Excellent post.0 -
FRoZeNxPyRo wrote: »There is honestly no point to this thread.
All it is is a bunch of misinformed russophobic berators whining about a leader, who they truly, truly believe is directly involved in every malevolent political move and human rights violation in the past decade.
So let me bring this thread back to the point.
He is a threat to peace in Europe? Please, evidence, and not in the form of some silly journalist's rant about Putin's so called bid for a New Empire.
Where is the evidence of this?
How about multiple journalists from multiple organisations from multiple countries and what have you backup up your opinions with NOTHING.Whether you people and Washington like it or not, Crimea was lawfully annexed by the Russian Federation. It was a democratic vote, maybe not the one Washington liked, but there is no evidence to the contrary.
Not according to the UN
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/03/un-general-assembly-calls-crimea-vote-illegal-2014327179033856.html
Then again you would count them as biased. I think that is comprehensive evidence to the contrary.Crimea has traditionally been Russian, with an majority population of ethnic Russians, and a Naval base that has been there for hundreds of years.
Source: Anywhere, look it up.
So the Tartars weren't resident there and weren't mass deported by Russia. Look that up :rolleyes:Had there been bloodshed fighting the annexation, it would be a different story, but there was none.
There was bloodshed but not on a massive scale but Crimea was crawling with Russian military from day one (the little Green men). The Ukrainians showed massive restraint in the front of some very aggressive actions by the Russian forces.You also seem to believe and talk like Putin is the sole political and juristic entity in the whole of Russia, and there exists not a cabinet of ministers or a state Duma. I'll gently remind you that this presumption is incorrect, and many decisions are not made by Putin.
I'm sure the same is said about the North Korean leader too.Let me remind you that it is Russia that revealed the truth about the chemical weapons in Syria and who was using them, and it is Russia who granted asylum to the clandestine whistleblower, Edward Snowden, who, had he been arrested by the American Forces for Democracy and Freedom, would be rotting away in Guantanamo Bay.
Please provide this proof that Russia revealed the truth about Chemical Weapons in Syria?
I wonder how a officer from the FSB would be treated if he realised the amount of information that Snowden did? I doubt he would make it to a trial. He'd probably get a cup of "Litvinenko tea".I recommend you watch how US cops deal with Human Rights these days. Let me sum it up for you: mace, tazers batons, and corruption.
Post proof please.No, I'm not bothered with sources because you can find all this yourself and I haven't got time nor the permission to root around for links.
Then you should cease posting here and stop wasting our time with your rants.Blah blah blah
Again no backup at all.0 -
It has been a part of Russia since the times of Catherine the Great, long before Stalin.
But it was legally handed over to the Ukraine. Therefore it is the Ukraine that should make a decision as a country to legally allow it to rejoin Russia. Not Russia sending in the troops as it did do.0 -
You specifically said in that thread that Stalin wasn't as bad as Hitler because Stalin didn't mean to kill so many people ... despite his actions clearly being at best recklessness verging on intent.
You repeated the claim - in bold - here that Stalin's aim was not the extermination of entire peoples when it's absolutely crystal clear that it was - and that this is one of the reasons for the current difficulties in the Ukraine today.
That's a lie.
I see you failed to provide any evidence of me speaking on Estonia et al.0 -
But it was legally handed over to the Ukraine. Therefore it is the Ukraine that should make a decision as a country to legally allow it to rejoin Russia. Not Russia sending in the troops as it did do.
Here, I'm not taking a pro-Russian stance on this issue or anything. I think both the Ukranian administration and the Russians are wholly in the wrong on a variety of different issues. I'm only interjecting with a bit of historical fact in response to the post I quoted. Traditionally, Crimea has been a part of the Russian state and it is overwhelmingly had a Russian majority.0 -
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Here, I'm not taking a pro-Russian stance on this issue or anything. I think both the Ukranian administration and the Russians are wholly in the wrong on a variety of different issues. I'm only interjecting with a bit of historical fact in response to the post I quoted. Traditionally, Crimea has been a part of the Russian state and it is overwhelmingly had a Russian majority.
I know where you are coming from.
Khrushchev made a major mistake handing it over to the Ukraine back in the 1954 probably because no one saw the possibility of the break up of the USSR in the future but it doesn't take away from the fact that the Crimea is part of the Ukraine and it has been illegally annexed by a neighbouring state.0 -
Apologies if I misinterpreted, but it did seem like you were excusing Stalin of genocide because he "wasn't trying to kill."I was referring to a specific example raised by one person in comparison to Hitlers genocide of the Jews.
I do consider Stalin to be guilty of mass-murder and I also consider the attempt to exterminate entire nationalities - which I believe happened to the Baltic countries and likely to Ukraine - to be genocide.0 -
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Nothing new here. Exactly one hundred years ago as Europe was descending into catastrophe it was the socialists who opposed the war arguing that the working classes were being used as cannon fodder to preserve a 19th century Imperialist way of life (they would have been the "tin foil hat brigade" of their day) of course they were right but no one listened to them as people in the countries at war were whipped up into a frenzy of hate, xenophobia, fear and lies. It's happening again.But let me tell you, it is fools like you who will start the next war.
Russia shouldn't be so close to NATO countries, its clearly an act of aggression!I was under the impression it was the US that was empire building.0
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