Manliness/Masculinity

Arne_Saknussem

Rough Sleeper, defend this! It's not you is it??

Rough Sleeper

He's wearing a work shirt, pink tie and a Topman hoodie that would have drawn dirty looks at a Boys Noize gig back in 2007. There isn't much there to defend.

I'd be more Fred Perry polos and Converse, sort of mid-2000s indie as much as anything.

K-9

Czarcasm wrote: »

K-9 if this is the comment you're referring to -





Far from an indication of an indecisive mind, I considered it the more prudent course of action given that you were under the impression I was engaging in some sort of homophobic wind-up and could very easily have found myself infracted or thread banned for the way in which I expressed a difference of opinion and how that was being perceived.

I hadn't thought that such a course of action would be perceived as a reflection of my masculinity or otherwise, nor did I take account of the fact that in your position as a Moderator you could disregard the "attack the post, not the poster" rule to take petty swipes at other posters.

It was tongue in cheek, Jaysus.

And for that matter, you know as well as anybody I am not a mod in AH and just an ordinary poster here, so why bring it up?

Czarcasm

K-9 wrote: »

It was tongue in cheek, Jaysus.

I'll apologize then K-9 because it was just coming off the back of perceptions of my comments as homophobic last night, trying to wind people up, and our difference of opinion that I read your comment differently.

And for that matter, you know as well as anybody I am not a mod in AH and just an ordinary poster here, so why bring it up?

I actually genuinely didn't know you weren't an AH Moderator any more as I'm posting almost exclusively on the touch site and the forums you moderate don't show up.

Wibbs

buried wrote: »

Men are increasingly being bullied by society into dropping not only their masculinity but also any other trait/activity which men traditionally enjoy or gain entertainment from and my theory is that it all stems from the over-hyped sexualisation of everything we see today in the modern media infested world. Sex has become the mainstream 'be all and end all' and many people are pressured into making sure they are seen to have regular access to it which in turn rushes people into relationships just for the sake of being seen by the rest of society to be in one. And in order to stay in this lame pressurised existence people will in turn sacrifice the traits and even the lifestyle they used to enjoy which makes them the person they are/were.

I see it every week with my friends currently in this kind of set up.
Two recent examples....

I don't blame the women in such situations B, or at least not entirely. It's a two way street. The enabler and the enabled. In the majority of cases I've encountered the men are the enablers. It's not unlike women who go from one abusive git of a man to another. If it's a pattern love, who is the common denominator?

And I observed in the vast majority of cases the dynamic was well in play before marriage or rings on the finger. The men just ignored this, even when told(and me with social tourettes I was usually the one asking WTF?). They ignored it and IMHO they ignored it mostly out of cowardice. Fear. Fear of not getting another woman. Nonsense, the world is full of them(and I even saw this with ex "players"). Or more it was fear of upsetting the social applecart. Fear of breaking it off cos they didn't want the direct "stress" from the woman, or if it was closer to the wedding date a major fear of not upsetting the wider social applecart. What would the neighbours think(personally I say fcuk em, but I have found myself unusual in this because I will actually say it). I knew one bloke who had been holding onto serious misgivings but didn't say a damn thing until a week before the wedding and then did a runner. Coward? Yep, but at least he grew a spine before the register was signed. It would have done neither of them any good if it had gone ahead(and the following years copperfastened this).

These guys go into these kind of relationships with both eyes open. Sadly their brain and spine are in disposed. I have little sympathy for them TBH. If on week one of the budding relationship they had made it clear they were their own man and as such independent and didn't need either coddling nor censure things would have turned out very differently. Either the woman would have left(good riddance) or just as likely she would have had respect for him as an equal, not a boy man who needs parenting. IMHO Women(tm) have a facility for spotting weakness in the herd better than a wolf. They have to. For the majority of our history as a species picking the weak man could have her abandoned, hungry, even get her killed. Strip away civilisation and that stuff is still there in our brains. Maybe early on they think they can help the guy grow, but then before they know it find themselves in mammy mode. Very sexy altogether(I've actually seen this happen to a female mate of mine but she got out of Dodge in the nick of time). Of course just like you will always have thundering dickheads of men, you will also have thundering bitches of women and they select for the weak men they can dominate.

Secondly I most certainly don't blame feminism or the perceptual change in masculinity for this. The put upon, browbeaten husband nagged to death by a harpy wife has been a mainstay of culture for a very long time. The Greeks and Romans joked about it(and they weren't within sniffing distance of feminist) and it was a near constant theme of 19th century music halls. All long before feminism came along. It ain't women's fault, nor is it feminism's fault. It's weak men. In fairness most of them seem to learn it at their mammies knee, or as likely watching daddy on his knees. They get snared early and never grow out of it as it's too cosy, too comfortable, as it's all they know.

Daveysil15

You're not a real man until you've footed turf in the bog. Nothing like washing the turf mould out of your hairy chest after a hard days grafting.

buried

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't blame the women in such situations B, or at least not entirely. It's a two way street. The enabler and the enabled. In the majority of cases I've encountered the men are the enablers. It's not unlike women who go from one abusive git of a man to another. If it's a pattern love, who is the common denominator?

Oh I totally agree, these guys are so weak and its totally on their own bat how they've managed to arrive in these grim situations, but for me it is so disheartening to see the people I grew up with, to see them literally become slaves into this $hitty existence, to discard all things they actually enjoyed for themselves and your right too about the fear, the fear of not getting anyone else. I don't understand how anyone could arrive at that way of thinking or even allow themselves to, I really don't. But its happening bigtime.

Czarcasm

buried wrote: »

Oh I totally agree, these guys are so weak and its totally on their own bat how they've managed to arrive in these grim situations, but for me it is so disheartening to see the people I grew up with, to see them literally become slaves into this $hitty existence, to discard all things they actually enjoyed for themselves and your right too about the fear, the fear of not getting anyone else. I don't understand how anyone could arrive at that way of thinking or even allow themselves to, I really don't. But its happening bigtime.

In all honesty buried, in the situations you describe, if a guy is letting the small head think for the big head, then he only has himself to blame for the situation he finds himself in, and nobody else.

buried

Czarcasm wrote: »

In all honesty buried, in the situations you describe, if a guy is letting the small head think for the big head, then he only has himself to blame for the situation he finds himself in, and nobody else.

I know, I totally agree, these guys have nobody to blame but themselves, but to give up the basic elements and traits that made these guys into the men they used to be or were - how do these guys allow this to occur? I think its all down to the pressure on people in modern society to 'pair up' no matter what the consequences may be, just like dottie said earlier. But its just so weak-minded and pathetic I don't know how the other-halves involved could have any respect for people who are just complete and utter walk-overs, but for my social circle it seems to be part of the course. I don't understand how they reach this mindset. Both of them.

Fox_In_Socks

Czarcasm wrote: »

In all honesty buried, in the situations you describe, if a guy is letting the small head think for the big head, then he only has himself to blame for the situation he finds himself in, and nobody else.

Well if he's squeezed his small head into some tight bollock-benders, then he won't be thinking with it and will be using his big head.:pac:

Czarcasm

buried wrote: »

I know, I totally agree, these guys have nobody to blame but themselves, but to give up the basic elements and traits that made these guys into the men they used to be or were - how do these guys allow this to occur? I think its all down to the pressure on people in modern society to 'pair up' no matter what the consequences may be, just like dottie said earlier. But its just so weak-minded and pathetic I don't know how the other-halves involved could have any respect for people who are just complete and utter walk-overs, but for my social circle it seems to be part of the course. I don't understand how they reach this mindset. Both of them.

Unfortunately you've really answered your own question. I don't think though myself it's actually a real pressure from society, not nowadays anyway when people are living longer and capable of living independent lives.

I think it's pure and simple insecurity and a lack of self-confidence in themselves (not to engage in whataboutery but as Wibbs points out, neither gender is immune, it's one of the ways in which men and women are no different), and for men that allow this to happen to themselves, I've seen in them too that there's almost a comfort for them in "knowing their place" as the hen-pecked husband. Naturally the women they go for will walk all over them if a man allows them to, and will give up their independence for what feels more natural to them.

It's only embarrassing for them when you point it out to them, but they know the shame is only temporary compared to the comfort they feel from what they know and what they're used to. It can be a very hard mindset to break, but it's not impossible. Sometimes though I've just had to accept that they know better, but they're too scared of the unknown to risk breaking away from what's familiar to them. You really can't force them out of the situation much as you find it hard to watch. Like overcoming any addictive behavior, they have to want to do it for themselves.


*Disclaimer: Alcohol intoxication may have been involved in the writing of this post

buried

Fox_In_Socks wrote: »

Well if he's squeezed his small head into some tight bollock-benders, then he won't be thinking with it and will be using his big head.:pac:

I dunno, the other side of that is that these guys may need to actually grow a pair again, and not suffocate them any further!

Fox_In_Socks

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Jacques-Louis_David_-_The_Emperor_Napoleon_in_His_Study_at_the_Tuileries_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

I've been thinking of giving these a go. I would look quite fetching in them.

What do you think?

Fox_In_Socks

Fox_In_Socks wrote: »

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Jacques-Louis_David_-_The_Emperor_Napoleon_in_His_Study_at_the_Tuileries_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

I've been thinking of giving these a go. I would look quite fetching in them.

What do you think?

Probably an improvement on the usual

4zn76tysfajdxp

Ah, Napoleon. Now there was a real man.

have2flushtwice

Livia Howling Price wrote: »

Ah, Napoleon. Now there was a real man.

I know a guy who cut off his finger with a chainsaw, he had two fags left, smoked one, put the other behind his ear, put the finger in the fag box and drove to a&e in tullamore.

Dont mind blackbeard r the likes.

K-9

The Hollywood Princess thing has a lot to blame for that stuff, but it's a common gender characteristic, probably more to do with subservient people, old fashioned expectations and stuff like that. Being a doormat isn't attractive in general, plus people will take more and more advantage if you don't grow a back bone.

Fox_In_Socks

Candie wrote: »

Probably an improvement on the usual

Tsk...you've never seen those!

4zn76tysfajdxp

have2flushtwice wrote: »

I know a guy who cut off his finger with a chainsaw, he had two fags left, smoked one, put the other behind his ear, put the finger in the fag box and drove to a&e in tullamore.

Dont mind blackbeard r the likes.

Sounds like his finger was extremely thin.

The_Captain

Nothing more manly than riding loads of women tbf

lufties

The_Captain wrote: »

Nothing more manly than riding loads of women tbf

I've done that for years and there comes a time where a bit of stability is nice.

Fox_In_Socks

lufties wrote: »

I've done that for years and there comes a time where a bit of stability is nice.

Are you being ironic?

Shakespeare's Sister

KahBoom wrote: »

On the feminist label thing: If people earlier agree that 'feminist' can (for many feminists) mean egalitarianism, then there's really nothing amiss with any man identifying as feminist then, if they take it as being egalitarian - that's certainly my take on feminism anyway, and so I'd label myself feminist for that reason.

Yeh I didn't mean to insult anyone and hope I didn't. I just mean some (not all) guys who refer to themselves as feminists are, to be frank, trying to get laid.
I mean moreso guys who claim to be of the more hardline feminist persuasion - the "Yeh hon, men are pigs" stuff. A man would want to be pretty self-loathing to believe that genuinely.

I know obviously most guys are simply anti misogyny though, and against people being negatively affected on the basis of their gender.