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There's no academic difference between working class and middle class children

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Comments

  • #242
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I already addressed that. All of that.

    You replied certainly.


  • #243
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Untrue. You simply don't like the bigger picture that was outlined and the different reasons that the previous school may have had. That's understandable through family loyalty.

    The "bigger picture" is not 1 persons experience. Please stop suggesting that Pilligers experience is entirely representative of all experiences.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #244
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    You replied certainly.

    You're clearly not listening to a word sup_dude is saying and have decided very closed mindedly that he is wrong and you know better! Even though you know very little specifics.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #245
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I made it to be a scientist now with external help so in hindsight the problem clearly wasn't me.

    You're fond of banging on about your scientific principles, but this sentence is very far from those.


  • #246
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    The "bigger picture" is not 1 persons experience. Please stop suggesting that Pilligers experience is entirely representative of all experiences.

    The bigger picture is the consequences for the majority in classrooms where teachers have their work structured around managing behaviour out of the norm. The poster you refer to has shared theirs. It's illustrative and no more than that.


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  • #247
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    The bigger picture is the consequences for the majority in classrooms where teachers have their work structured around managing behaviour out of the norm. The poster you refer to has shared theirs. It's illustrative and no more than that.

    Again you have no evidence that the majority in the classroom are badly affected. You seem to think you are more of a (self appointed) expert on sup_dudes situation than sup_dude

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #248
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    You're clearly not listening to a word sup_dude is saying and have decided very closed mindedly that he is wrong and you know better! Even though you know very little specifics.

    You're clearly not listening to what I said. I haven't said he's wrong; I questioned the outcomes for others in the classroom and pointe to a bigger picture.


  • #249
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    osarusan wrote: »
    You're fond of banging on about your scientific principles, but this sentence is very far from those.

    Why's that? What scientific principle did I break?


  • #250
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Again you have no evidence that the majority in the classroom are badly affected.

    Again you have no evidence that they are not.


  • #251
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Again you have no evidence that they are not.

    I do, yet you've ignored that....


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  • #252
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    You're clearly not listening to what I said. I haven't said he's wrong; I questioned the outcomes for others in the classroom and pointe to a bigger picture.

    I have listened to you. You've made lots of insinuations. You've decided you know more about his situation than he does. You've appointed yourself as an expert on his situation. You've decided that Piligers experience is the only experience.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #253
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I do, yet you've ignored that....

    You have asserted that and I have previously answered that.


  • #254
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    You have asserted that and I have previously answered that.

    Yep. You appointed yourself as an expert.

    How come Piligers experience was never questioned. Or there was never insinuations or assertions that he was wrong in any way?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #255
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    You have asserted that and I have previously answered that.

    sup_dude wrote: »
    We know because Mum is in regular contact with the school, to make sure my brother is doing alright. We know because we went from at least one phone call a week, to none. We know because my mother no longer gets stares from other parents of children in the same class. We know, because the teacher told us.

    You mean this?


  • #256
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Why's that? What scientific principle did I break?

    You completely discounted the possibility of any impact of one particular variable (you).


  • #257
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #258
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I have listened to you. You've made lots of insinuations. You've decided you know more about his situation than he does. You've appointed yourself as an expert on his situation. You've decided that Piligers experience is the only experience.

    No you think you have. I have made no insinuations. Looking as an outsider at his situation it is possible to do as I gave done and draw attention to the bigger picture. I haven't claimed to know more about his situation but I will repeat that there is a bigger picture to his individual case. You simply don't like what I am saying: it seems to touch a nerve with you that my focus isn't on the individual. But that's your business.


  • #259
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    osarusan wrote: »
    You completely discounted the possibility of any impact of one particular variable (you).

    Yet I made it beyond PhD level :)


  • #260
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Yep. You appointed yourself as an expert.

    How come Piligers experience was never questioned. Or there was never insinuations or assertions that he was wrong in any way?

    More silliness. And personalised comment from a mod. Lovely.
    Why should I question Piliger?


  • #261
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Yet I made it beyond PhD level :)

    And there's the flaw with your argument: "I was always a smart lad, so the problem can't have been me, therefore it must have been something else."

    Nothing scientific about dismissing a variable like that, particularly a variable as intangible as one's capacity for learning.


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  • #262
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    No you think you have. I have made no insinuations. Looking as an outsider at his situation it is possible to do as I gave done and draw attention to the bigger picture. I haven't claimed to know more about his situation but I will repeat that thee is a bigger picture to his individual case. You simply don't like what I am saying: it seems to touch a nerve with you that my focus isn't on the individual. But that's your business.

    No

    I just dont understand how
    1 Piligers story is accepted by you as gospel without questioning
    2 Piligers story is extrapolated into everyones story
    3 Insinuations can be made that the children in the class of sup_dude are negatively affected
    4 You know more about sup_dudes situation than sup_dude himself

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #263
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    osarusan wrote: »
    And there's the flaw with your argument: "I was always a smart lad, so the problem can't have been me, therefore it must have been something else."

    Nothing scientific about dismissing a variable like that, particularly a variable as intangible as one's capacity for learning.

    I don't believe in intelligence variations. I was also interested in the subject though. My teacher didn't recognise my interest. My point was I had the interest ad it was never fostered.


  • #264
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    No

    I just dont understand how
    1 Piligers story is accepted by you as gospel without questioning
    2 Piligers story is extrapolated into everyones story
    3 Insinuations can be made that the children in the class of sup_dude are negatively affected
    4 You know more about sup_dudes situation than sup_dude himself

    1. Piligers story is another post on a net forum and like every other here could be complete shyte.
    2. It wasn't. You imagine it has.
    3. I question the impact of time being given to the management of behaviours in the manner described. And the practicality of that if there are several such needs in a class of 30.
    4. I don't know his situation in the manner you claim. That's your misreading of it. I've pointed out that the bigger picture isn't necessarily visible to him or his family.


  • #265
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    My point was I had the interest ad it was never fostered.

    According to you. The subjective opinion of one person, in hindsight.

    As an academic and a scientist, you are surely aware there is huge potential for bias here.

    But you discount the possibility of this.


  • #266
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    osarusan wrote: »
    According to you. The subjective opinion of one person, in hindsight.

    As an academic and a scientist, you are surely aware there is huge potential for bias here.

    But you discount the possibility of this.

    Yes indeed as I pointed out on a previous post. I said I would have discounted this but for the repeated stories from other people.


  • #267
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    3. I question the impact of time being given to the management of behaviours in the manner described. And the practicality of that if there are several such needs in a class of 30.
    4. I don't know his situation in the manner you claim. That's your misreading of it. I've pointed out that the bigger picture isn't necessarily visible to him or his family.

    Once again, it is structured in a way that doesn't waste time i.e. when the others are busy working on something or during their break times.
    It is visible. I'm not going to spam the thread by quoting it again but I think the teacher would inform us if it was as bad as you are saying it is. Again, I don't see how this new system is worse than the one most schools use... but you seem to think it is.


  • #268
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    Once again, it is structured in a way that doesn't waste time i.e. when the others are busy working on something or during their break times.
    It is visible. I'm not going to spam the thread by quoting it again but I think the teacher would inform us if it was as bad as you are saying it is. Again, I don't see how this new system is worse than the one most schools use... but you seem to think it is.

    And once again I am pointing out that to structure a class over a year in such a manner is resource intensive and policies of deflection have difficulties of viability when there are several significant needs to be addressed in such a manner. Inevitably if time is given to individual attention repeatedly (for any reason) it is necessarily limiting on full class teaching.


  • #269
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I said I would have discounted this but for the repeated stories from other people.

    What is it that you would have discounted (if it wasn't for the repeated stories of other people)?


  • #270
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    osarusan wrote: »
    What is it that you would have discounted (if it wasn't for the repeated stories of other people)?

    We're going around in circles my friend. I would have discounted my experience as a standard deviation.


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  • #271
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    But the more you heard from others who had similar stories, you started to think that this was a widespread problem?


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