Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Sam Harris on the Israel-Palestine Conflict

Options
1…6791112…18

Comments

  • Options
    #242
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    The only solution is to ultimately overthrow Hamas.

    When this latest Israeli offensive comes to a close in a matter of days and Israel pull back once again, the strangle hold will remain on Gaza with Egypt and Israel pinning Hamas down. Hamas will seek to rebuild the tunnels, re-arm, replenished its numbers and organize for another round of fighting in a few years time.

    So if those who claim to care so much about the Palestinians really did they would seek the end of Hamas.

    It's common sense that killing thousands of civilians which they're currently doing will result in more extremists rather than less. There's no long term benefit even for Israel if their intent is to reduce extremism because realistically you can not win this with an army,you have to behave like decent human beings.

    In relation to the human shield stuff, most journalists in Gaza are stating that they see no evidence of it.


  • Options
    #243
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Nodin wrote: »
    Given recent history you may be designating the wrong side as the proverbial 'Turkeys'.

    Indeed , the one state solution will never happen , that is unless one side wipes out the other.


  • Options
    #244
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    Nodin wrote: »
    Jaysus, fancy that.

    Are you going to admit you were utterly wrong? :)

    This is the smoking gun of smoking guns.


  • Options
    #245
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    It's common sense that killing thousands of civilians which they're currently doing will result in more extremists rather than less. There's no long term benefit even for Israel if their intent is to reduce extremism because realistically you can not win this with an army,you have to behave like decent human beings.

    Hamas firing rockets at Israeli civilians is decent is it? They use their own civilians as human shields.

    Your lack of criticism of Hamas speaks volumes.


  • Options
    #246
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Are you going to admit you were utterly wrong? :)

    This is the smoking gun of smoking guns.
    Not really,we know that Israel write plenty of propaganda around this situation and your source is the IDF no less.
    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Hamas firing rockets at Israeli civilians is decent is it? They use their own civilians as human shields.

    Your lack of criticism of Hamas speaks volumes.

    No I don't approve of Hamas firing rockets. I will repeat there is no proof of human shields being used. I despise Hamas but then we have Israel who aren't exactly behaving correctly either. They'll happily blow up every Palestinian civilian if they have to. They have displaced hundreds of thousands and really their current government despises Arabs. Proof of this includes the Lieberman Plan by their foreign minister and miscegenation laws of all things. This is why the Israeli government puts little value upon the lives that are being lost.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #247
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Are you going to admit you were utterly wrong? :)

    This is the smoking gun of smoking guns.

    It's from an IDF blog......why would I accept their translation of something I can't read myself?


  • Options
    #248
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Hamas firing rockets at Israeli civilians is decent is it? They use their own civilians as human shields.

    Your lack of criticism of Hamas speaks volumes.


    And your fixation on Hamas is odd.


  • Options
    #249
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    Not really,we know that Israel write plenty of propaganda around this situation and your source is the IDF no less.

    And so the parrot sketch continues.:D


  • Options
    #250
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    And so the parrot sketch continues.:D

    Doing a quick search on the manuals indicates that the vast majority of the press are not reporting on them. It would appear that they are not independently verified as legitimate so it's sort of like sourcing information from Cold War Russia.


  • Options
    #251
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Israel has discovered a manual detailing to Hamas terrorists from their leaders how to use civilians as human shields.

    manua_shajiyal1.png

    manual_shaiya_text.png



    http://www.idfblog.com/blog/2014/08/04/captured-hamas-combat-manual-explains-benefits-human-shields/

    It is clear then that Israel has been proven correct.

    Hamas in their own words have adopted the tactics of using human shields while firing rockets at Israel.

    This is what you are defending when you are making excuses for Hamas.

    Argument over.

    Time to eat humble pie chaps?
    Meanwhile in the real world -

    human_shield_israel.jpg

    dailymail_humanshield.jpg

    The tanks, which serve as the heart of the assault force, received an order to open fire at anything that moved. The area and the targets are due to be seized by the morning hours. From here on, [the army] will start to clear the ground, in what could last for several days, depending on political developments."
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/israel-us-caution-deaths-gaza-ground-fighting


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #252
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Hamas would violently oppose anything less than a Taliban style Islamic state....

    You obviously haven't been paying attention to overwhelming Israeli victories in 1948, 1967 and 1973 and their on-going defense of Israel from attack?
    Why would Israel surrender to their dissolution?
    It may seem unworkable, but its less unworkable than the status quo.
    Hamas would oppose a secular state obviously, and so would the zionists.
    But if one existed, both Hamas and the zionists would be only tiny minorities. Both sets of religious zealots feed on hatred and strife. Without constant war, they mostly shrivel up and die. The hard-core remnants could be jailed if they persisted with violence.
    Even though Israelis normally win militarily, they still suffer losses, and they tire of fighting. I believe most of them would rather live in a peaceful secular state than a religious state which is constantly at war with its neighbours. Mostly their aggression is driven by fear, and the basic instinct to survive when surrounded by hostile forces. Its a vicious circle, because their "defensive" actions are what creates the hostility all around them.

    How to make the transition to a unitary secular state is the only problem. IMO it will happen though, eventually. Probably resulting from a general decline in religiosity among both muslims and jews, occurring for the usual reasons; education, exposure to foreign TV, travel, the internet etc..


  • Options
    #253
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    Nodin wrote: »
    And your fixation on Hamas is odd.

    Hamas started this by firing rockets at Israel.

    Do try to keep up.

    The aim of Hamas is to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel.

    You keep denying the reality of Hamas, their attacks on Israel, their use of human shields and the reality of the threat Israel has to deal with.

    The parrot sketch keeps going eh?


  • Options
    #254
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Hamas started this by firing rockets at Israel.

    Do try to keep up.

    The aim of Hamas is to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel.

    You keep denying the reality of Hamas, their attacks on Israel, their use of human shields and the reality of the threat Israel has to deal with.

    The parrot sketch keeps going eh?

    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
    - Voltaire


  • Options
    #255
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Hamas started this by firing rockets at Israel.

    Actually it was the Israeli government who accussed Hamas of being behind killings in the West Bank, which Israel is illegally colonising.


  • Options
    #256
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    recedite wrote: »
    Even though Israelis normally win militarily, they still suffer losses, and they tire of fighting.

    When they tire of fighting back they will all be killed. Hamas and Arab states have promised to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews.
    I believe most of them would rather live in a peaceful secular state than a religious state which is constantly at war with its neighbours.

    Their neighbours are constantly attacking Israel and trying to kill all the Jews because they are Jews.
    Mostly their aggression is driven by fear, and the basic instinct to survive when surrounded by hostile forces.

    No sh*t? So Israelis should blow kisses at people who want to kill them all?
    Its a vicious circle, because their "defensive" actions are what creates the hostility all around them.

    By that logic rape victims should take the blame for being attacked.
    How to make the transition to a unitary secular state is the only problem.

    Islamic fundamentalism is the only problem.
    IMO it will happen though, eventually.

    Dream on!
    Probably resulting from a general decline in religiosity among both muslims and jews

    LOL! Sure! :D
    education, exposure to foreign TV, travel, the internet etc..

    The very things that Hamas is opposed to!

    I do like a belly laugh.:D


  • Options
    #257
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    Nodin wrote: »
    Actually it was the Israeli government who accussed Hamas of being behind killings in the West Bank, which Israel is illegally colonising.

    So Hamas had nothing to do with the killings and to demonstrate how innocent they are they decided to firing rockets at Israel and try and kill more Israeli civilians was the only recourse? :D


  • Options
    #258
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    When they tire of (..........)belly laugh.:D

    When was the last time Israels neigbours attacked it?

    If Islamic fundamentalism is the problem, why is the west Bank and Arab East Jerusalem and the Golan being colonised?
    So Hamas had nothing to do with the killings

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html


  • Options
    #259
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    I just learned that gaza owns 5-6 billion reserves of gas fields per annum. http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2489992/armed_robbery_in_gaza_israel_us_uk_carve_up_the_spoils_of_palestines_stolen_gas.html israel wants/needs it. Israel will run out of gas in the next 15 years...

    THAT explains the genocide... All the other circular arguments are just distractions. Israel wants Gazas natural resources and has to remove 2 million people to get it.


  • Options
    #260
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    Anyway there is now a ceasefire and Israel has announced that it has completed eliminating the terror tunnels.

    Hamas has got its ass comprehensively handed to them.

    Job well done! :D

    If Hamas does this again they will get the same medicine.

    Wonderful victory for Israel.

    I just want to congratulate the IDF and the Israeli people and most of all their heroic leader Benjamin Netanyahu! HERO!


  • Options
    #261
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Anyway there is now a ceasefire and Israel has announced that it has completed eliminating the terror tunnels.

    Hamas has got its ass comprehensively handed to them.

    Job well done! :D
    Great. Now they can concentrate on withdrawing the illegal settlers from Palestinian territories.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #262
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    kylith wrote: »
    Great. Now they can concentrate on withdrawing the illegal settlers from Palestinian territories.

    The Palestinians are not interested in a state in Gaza and the West Bank.

    They want all of the Jews killed and the entire territory of Israel conquered by the Islamic Caliphate.


  • Options
    #263
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    The Palestinians are not interested in a state in Gaza and the West Bank.

    They want all of the Jews killed and the entire territory of Israel conquered by the Islamic Caliphate.

    Do you think their should be a dismantling of the illegal settlements in the west bank?


  • Options
    #264
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    Do you think their should be a dismantling of the illegal settlements in the west bank?

    Who is going to dismantle them? :D


  • Options
    #265
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    The Palestinians are not interested in a state in Gaza and the West Bank.

    They want all of the Jews killed and the entire territory of Israel conquered by the Islamic Caliphate.
    Yeah, yeah, and the Israelis seem bent on wiping out the Muslims too. That's beside the point.

    Don't you agree that it is imperative for good relations that Israel vacate the land which they have stolen over the last few decades?


  • Options
    #266
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Who is going to dismantle them? :D

    That is not what I asked. Do you think they should be?


  • Options
    #267
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    kylith wrote: »
    Yeah, yeah, and the Israelis seem bent on wiping out the Muslims too. That's beside the point.

    Don't you agree that it is imperative for good relations that Israel vacate the land which they have stolen over the last few decades?

    The Arabs do not want good relations.

    They want to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews as I said.


  • Options
    #268
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    That is not what I asked. Do you think they should be?

    Should water not be wet too? Should human beings have useless appendixes? You could ask me lots of questions like that!:D


  • Options
    #269
    R P McMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Should water not be wet too? Should human beings have useless appendixes? You could ask me lots of questions like that!:D

    Can you not answer the question?


  • Options
    #270
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    Who is going to dismantle them? :D
    I hope the hasbarists never actually hire you to spread propaganda because it would be a massive own goal. You make the Israeli side look devoid of any human empathy, cruel and callous - not that need any help.


    If you were in Israel (if you are not already) would you go to the top of that hill and rejoice with the sociopaths as 100 ton bombs tear Children limb from limb?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #271
    Azwaldo55
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I hope the hasbarists never actually hire you to spread propaganda because it would be a massive own goal. You make the Israeli side look devoid of any human empathy, cruel and callous - not that need any help.


    If you were in Israel (if you are not already) would you go to the top of that hill and rejoice with the sociopaths as 100 ton bombs tear Children limb from limb?

    100 tons bombs? :D Never heard of any of those in any military inventory anywhere in the world. What other imaginary weapons can you dream up?

    The Israeli operation destroyed tunnels, tunnel entrances, rocket launchers, rocket stores and eliminated terrorist cells and terrorists leaders.

    Hamas uses its own people as human shields while firing rockets at Israeli civilians.

    There is nothing that Israel did that Ireland would not do if we were attacked by a terrorist organization using civilian human shields.

    The Gazans voted for Hamas. They sowed the wind and are reaping the whirlwind. I have no pity or sympathy for them whatsoever.


Advertisement