Mick Wallace and Clare Daly reportedly arrested at Shannon airport.

Muahahaha · 28-07-2014 2:40am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm calling bullsh*t on that figure, I work in IT have done from low end to high end server infrastructure for years. No one can wear anything other than smart attire. Anyone wearing a t-shirt and jeans gets a warning pretty fast. Do you have figures backing up your wild claims ? Anyone dealing with the public generally had to wear a minimum of slacks and a shirt. Have you watched that film about Google where they wear what they want ?

Well admittedly anyone who I've ever come across on the infrastructure side of IT has been a slacks and shirt kind of person. But go to the Dev side and it's all jeans and t-shirts, many of those lads would show up to a job interview dressed like that and not an eyelid would be blinked because there's a good chance those interviewing them are wearing something similar.
Here a pic of the Journals dev team from just a few days ago

http://www.thejournal.ie/thejournal-tech-team-1572867-Jul2014/

Obviously if the lead developer walked into Piliger with an order for 20 new computers he'd run him because of that attire :rolleyes:

darkpagandeath · 28-07-2014 3:11am

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well admittedly anyone who I've ever come across on the infrastructure side of IT has been a slacks and shirt kind of person. But go to the Dev side and it's all jeans and t-shirts, many of those lads would show up to a job interview dressed like that and not an eyelid would be blinked because there's a good chance those interviewing them are wearing something similar.
Here a pic of the Journals dev team from just a few days ago

http://www.thejournal.ie/thejournal-tech-team-1572867-Jul2014/

Obviously if the lead developer walked into Piliger with an order for 20 new computers he'd run him because of that attire :rolleyes:

That’s a nice dig, I was pointing out I have worked in IT from low end to high end server and infrastructure is that better that includes most stuff in-between. Dev end of IT is slightly different, So your broad sweeping 100k people not wearing smart attire has just been drastically reduced due to your own cherry picking. Lets take a tour of the primary IT Employers Dell, Microsoft all the others even Google. Most have to wear smart attire. Even more so when your meeting the public and not trying to pull off and project a hipster look at us you can wear what ever you want. Well when the cameras are here.

Muahahaha · 28-07-2014 4:09am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That’s a nice dig, I was pointing out I have worked in IT from low end to high end server and infrastructure is that better that includes most stuff in-between. Dev end of IT is slightly different, So your broad sweeping 100k people not wearing smart attire has just been drastically reduced due to your own cherry picking. Lets take a tour of the primary IT Employers Dell, Microsoft all the others even Google. Most have to wear smart attire. Even more so when your meeting the public and not trying to pull off and project a hipster look at us you can wear what ever you want. Well when the cameras are here.

It wasn't like that in the old days lol:)
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/photos/microsoft.html
They lot look like a bunch of hippies. Or terrorists. It didn't matter what they wore in business because they all ended up generating circa $80bn for themselves.

Fact of the matter is some people go to work dressed casually. It's pretty common in any of the creative industries. If a sound engineer showed up to work in a suit recording artists would find it strange. But like I said at the end of the day your consternation for Wallace's clothes doesn't really matter in the real world because you're never going to vote for him anyway. So I don't get why you're so obsessed with it here because he's already proved that it matters not a jot what he is wearing so long as he gets the job done.

Indeed I'd say a big part of the reason Alan Shatter underestimated Wallace so much was because of what he was wearing and how he looks. I'd say in Shatters mind there was no way a hippie in a pink shirt could ever be the the one to finish his ministerial career. Shatter never took Wallace seriously, he guffawed at him constantly across the Dail floor. Part of Shatters opinion on Wallace was likely formed by how he dresses himself. No one in Shatters legal fraternity dresses like Wallace does and anyone that does dress like that isn't to be taken seriously.

Not taking Mick Wallace seriously was probably the biggest mistake Alan Shatter has ever made.

blackwhite · 28-07-2014 11:04am

Banjo String wrote: »

Pretty sure Bertie wore a suit all the time in the Dail.

Ditto:

Charlie Haughey.

Liam Lawlor et.

Clothes don't make the man.

@ darkpagandeath, Ref the bank manager in a tracksuit, bankers and developers helped to bring this country to its knees. I doubt many of them would have been wearing 'scanger tracksuits' while hatching their cunning plans.

If ming/Wallace or a.n others dress code has you worked up about who you can trust or not trust, you need a reality check.

And don't shoot the messenger.

There's something very ironic about someone bemoaning that fact that "developers helped bring this country to its knees," whilst singing the praises of a failed developer who defrauded the country of millions, and has left a string of unpaid creditors in his wake.

Banjo String · 28-07-2014 11:07am

blackwhite wrote: »

There's something very ironic about someone bemoaning that fact that "developers helped bring this country to its knees," whilst singing the praises of a failed developer who defrauded the country of millions, and has left a string of unpaid creditors in his wake.

Morning Alanis.

blackwhite · 28-07-2014 11:16am

Banjo String wrote: »

Morning Alanis.

Glad to see you don't want to hold Mick to the same standards as anyone else then.

Maybe because he wasn't wearing a suit it doesn't matter how many people he screwed over?

Banjo String · 28-07-2014 11:28am

blackwhite wrote: »

Glad to see you don't want to hold Mick to the same standards as anyone else then.

Maybe because he wasn't wearing a suit it doesn't matter how many people he screwed over?

Well if you care to do just a little bit of digging, you'll find that I actually don't hold him in very high standards at all.

Just because I defend his attire, and his work as a TD doesn't necessarily mean I hold him in very high regards.

In saying that, I'm being slowly convinced that if I was in his constituency, he'd Def get a vote from me.

geeksauce · 28-07-2014 1:31pm

Banjo String wrote: »

Well if you care to do just a little bit of digging, you'll find that I actually don't hold him in very high standards at all.

Just because I defend his attire, and his work as a TD doesn't necessarily mean I hold him in very high regards.

In saying that, I'm being slowly convinced that if I was in his constituency, he'd Def get a vote from me.

Why? What has he ever done for any of his constituents since being elected? (besides embarrass them of course)

darkpagandeath · 28-07-2014 1:45pm

geeksauce wrote: »

Why? What has he ever done for any of his constituents since being elected? (besides embarrass them of course)

Stuck it to the man ? Don't they realise when their in government, They are the man..... :pac:

Judgement Day · 28-07-2014 1:50pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Stuck it to the man ? Don't they realise when their in government, They are the man..... :pac:

It's news to me that Mick Wallace is in the Government.

darkpagandeath · 28-07-2014 1:54pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

It's news to me that Mick Wallace is in the Government.

Sigh, Sorry I mean TD.......

Judgement Day · 28-07-2014 1:55pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Sigh, Sorry I mean TD.......

Sigh, I can only read what you post, I'm not a mind reader.

darkpagandeath · 28-07-2014 1:58pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Sigh, I can only read what you post, I'm not a mind reader.

True, But I'm guessing most people knew what i meant and did not need to be pedantically correct to get some likes. :pac::pac:

Satriale · 28-07-2014 2:13pm

geeksauce wrote: »

Why? What has he ever done for any of his constituents since being elected? (besides embarrass them of course)

You are dead right, he should be priming that parish pump, the same as the rest of them.
"The Medical cards are on me lads!!!"

bajer101 · 28-07-2014 2:19pm

geeksauce wrote: »

Why? What has he ever done for any of his constituents since being elected? (besides embarrass them of course)

The Aquaducts?

Banjo String · 28-07-2014 2:31pm

geeksauce wrote: »

Why? What has he ever done for any of his constituents since being elected? (besides embarrass them of course)

Not just electorates in his constituency, but ousting Shatter for a start.

Yeah_Right · 28-07-2014 2:52pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

In fact just as another comparison that might ring true to some here. I lived down in New Zealand in 2003-04, at the time the Iraq war in full swing and the New Zealand public very much against the Bush neo con led agenda. Helen Clarke was their PM at the time, daughter of a rural farmer who never minced her words and always stood up for what she believed was right, a conviction politician if you will. Despite enormous pressure from both Australia and the US she refused to commit New Zealand troops to help the war on Iraq. She wasn't buying the WMD excuse and no way was she allowing New Zealand troops to come home in body bags dead over an illegal war based on a lie. Also at the time New Zealand had a policy (and still do AFAIK) of being an entirely non-nuclear country. This was of course coming off the back of French nuclear bomb tests in the South Pacific in the 1980s and of course French special forces bombing the Greenleace ship the Rainbow Warrior on New Zealand soil in Auckland Harbour. So New Zealanders are fiercely proud of their non-nuclear stance, what it means to your average Kiwi is akin to what neutrality means to Irish people, by and large.

And so the whole deal was off the table. But then Bush left office and Obama declared in 2009 that he was positive to the Free Trade Agreement and maybe we might just respect New Zealand's sovereignty and respect their publics wishes instead of throwing our weight around, that's what we do in Ireland because we know it works. Clearly these New Zealanders aren't as fickle as those Irish politicians because they've stood firm on the nuclear thing for 5 years. Negotiations on the FTA are still stalled but they're not stalled because of the nuclear issue because it's no longer on the table. They'll get there in the end as their they're now in the FTA with Australia so it's just a matter of time.

A few points to make here. Firstly, NZ troops did serve in Iraq. The government just didn't publicize it. There were loopholes such as them being seconded to UK or Aussie units. My evidence? I know some of them.

NZ has been standing firm on the nuclear issue for 30 years, not 5.

Holding up Helen Clarke as an example of a great leader :eek: No. Just no.

Manic Moran · 28-07-2014 3:15pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Fair enough, But is it citizenship of the EU in the EU or of the country you are in E.g France and so on. As if it's EU citizen the guys in the example from eastern Europe would be fine working here in customs in that regard.

It appears to be purely at the discretion of the country in question. For example, an Irish man can join the British Army straight from Ireland, but a French man who has been living in the UK for years cannot. Ireland accepts people from all over the EU, but if you want to be a German soldier, you must be a German citizen.

EU Website has more info: http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=465&langId=en

Employment in the public sector

Posts reserved for nationals
EU countries are allowed to reserve certain public-sector positions for their own nationals. This is an exception to the general rule of free movement of workers and must therefore be interpreted restrictively.
Only posts involving direct or indirect participation in the exercise of public authority and duties designed to safeguard the general interest of the state may be restricted to nationals.
These criteria must be assessed on a case-by-case basis, taking into account the tasks and responsibilities covered by the post.

Piliger · 28-07-2014 3:18pm

Banjo String wrote: »

Not just electorates in his constituency, but ousting Shatter for a start.

What a life achievement. Getting someone fired. Wow. Glory.

Banjo String · 28-07-2014 3:30pm

Piliger wrote: »

What a life achievement. Getting someone fired. Wow. Glory.

Factually wrong.

Shatter (we're told) wasn't sacked, he stood down. Also he had no one to blame but himself.

Mick Wallace unwittingly led to his downfall. Ok, Once Shatter fell on his own sword, Wallace twisted it, I'll grant you that.

Real David and Goliath stuff.

geeksauce · 28-07-2014 3:45pm

So nothing then, Mick Wallace has done absolutely nothing for his constituents since being elected, and some here would vote for him again.

I think Mick should put more time into representing those that voted for him in a proper manner and less time breaking the law in Shannon, attending the Euro's in Poland and Ukraine and the World Cup in Brazil. Although I think he did a good job getting back from the World Cup in time to go on his holiday from the Dail. Well done Mick great effort there!!

bajer101 · 28-07-2014 4:15pm

geeksauce wrote: »

So nothing then, Mick Wallace has done absolutely nothing for his constituents since being elected, and some here would vote for him again.

I think Mick should put more time into representing those that voted for him in a proper manner and less time breaking the law in Shannon, attending the Euro's in Poland and Ukraine and the World Cup in Brazil. Although I think he did a good job getting back from the World Cup in time to go on his holiday from the Dail. Well done Mick great effort there!!

http://www.kildarestreet.com/search/?pid=299&s=section%3Awrans&pop=1

Muahahaha · 28-07-2014 5:29pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

A few points to make here. Firstly, NZ troops did serve in Iraq. The government just didn't publicize it. There were loopholes such as them being seconded to UK or Aussie units. My evidence? I know some of them.

NZ has been standing firm on the nuclear issue for 30 years, not 5.

Holding up Helen Clarke as an example of a great leader :eek: No. Just no.

I was aware that certain NZ special forces served in Iraq, reason I heard was that it wouldn't be abnormal as the special forces want action regardless of what the politicians are saying. Not sure how true it is but regardless the point I was making about Helen Clarke standing up to US economic threats still stands. The US were telling NZ that there was no way they were ever getting a Free Trade Agreement if they wouldn't adjust their nuclear stance and allow them to use NZ waters as a base for nuclear powered ships and submarines. Clarke stood firm and at least amongst the New Zealanders I know from having lived there she gained an awful lot of respect from the public for her stance. I was making the point that when it comes to foreign policy relations with the US you can set your stall out like NZ does or you can set it out like we do. At the end of the day NZ will get their Free Trade Agreement (it's now tagged on to Australias agreement so it's a formality at this stage) but at the same time they'll maintain their nuclear stance and no nuclear ships will be using their waters, just the way the public want it. The NZ story is one of democracy and the will of the public triumphing over arrogant US Foreign Policy whilst still getting the FTA they want. The Irish story is one of deference where our spineless government are so scared of the US govt and their threats that they're willing to sell people's human rights off and turn a blind eye. Sure even Eamon Gilmore campaigned on the Shannon issue in opposition, soon changed his tune when he got to power :rolleyes:

blackwhite wrote: »

There's something very ironic about someone bemoaning that fact that "developers helped bring this country to its knees," whilst singing the praises of a failed developer who defrauded the country of millions, and has left a string of unpaid creditors in his wake.

The one barometer I'd hold any developer by is what he built and how did it add and improve on buildings already in the area. On that test Mick Wallace far surpasses the vast majority of Irish developers. He created the Italian quarter in Dublin and while I'm not claiming it to be some world class amenity I think anyone who passes through it would admit he did a fantastic job and also, more importantly in my opinion, he went above the call of duty by spending far more money on it that he actually had to. He didn't have to get the giant fresco of the Last Supper painted, he could have just painted that wall yellow and left it blank. But instead he spent thousands getting a piece of art created. Also the pillars on the riverside- all the stonework on them was restored to a very high standard.

You only need to walk a few minutes down the river to see what developers covered Dublin in during the boom- shoe box apartments with no balconys or outdoor space. The city is blighted by these type of developments carried out by the likes of Liam Carroll and other associated cowboys.

During the boom there wasn't many developers who had a policy of trying to build buildings that were pleasing to the eye. Cosgraves were well known for going the extra mile. I think you'd have to put Bernard McNamara into that small club too with Wallace in there as well, albeit on a smaller scale to McNamara and Cosgrave. But one thing they all had in common in property development is that they all wanted to leave buildings behind that added to the streetscape rather than detracting from it like the majority of what was built, or more so thrown up.

blackwhite · 28-07-2014 5:51pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

During the boom there wasn't many developers who had a policy of trying to build buildings that were pleasing to the eye.

You mean stuff like this?
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.358802,-6.254386,3a,75y,319.5h,102.23t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sZHEsNyHPr5ufxZ-eGSrFPA!2e0

Whilst at a ground level the Italian quarter is nice to walk through, from the Quays the buildings look no different to the dozens of others that were thrown up during the Celtic Tiger.

And TBH, if I was one of the dozens of subcontracters that he screwed out of paying then I wouldn't really give a sh*te about the aesthetics or otherwise of his developments.

Likewise, as a taxpayer who he has screwed out of millions, the aesthetics of what he built don't really feature on my list of priorities.

Judgement Day · 28-07-2014 6:09pm

geeksauce wrote: »

So nothing then, Mick Wallace has done absolutely nothing for his constituents since being elected, and some here would vote for him again.

I think Mick should put more time into representing those that voted for him in a proper manner and less time breaking the law in Shannon, attending the Euro's in Poland and Ukraine and the World Cup in Brazil. Although I think he did a good job getting back from the World Cup in time to go on his holiday from the Dail. Well done Mick great effort there!!

You forgot that pint he had in Courtown - disgusting.

Incidentally I see another FF, suit wearing, thug gone to jail today - pity so many escaped their just desserts.

Galwayguy35 · 28-07-2014 6:33pm

We got rid of one tax evader and people heap praise on another and would like to see him re elected.

Politics needs to be cleaned up.

darkpagandeath · 28-07-2014 6:40pm

Now now ... was resting in my account or won it... :pac:

Judgement Day · 28-07-2014 6:49pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We got rid of one tax evader and people heap praise on another and would like to see him re elected.

Politics needs to be cleaned up.

Ivor Callely was not caught for tax evasion, he was creating false invoices and directly stealing from the State - there's no comparison with Mick Wallace no matter how you might like to twist reality.

Galwayguy35 · 28-07-2014 7:20pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Ivor Callely was not caught for tax evasion, he was creating false invoices and directly stealing from the State - there's no comparison with Mick Wallace no matter how you might like to twist reality.

Who said I was talking about Ivor Callely?

I wasn't by the way, it was a certain former Taoiseach.

Muahahaha · 29-07-2014 2:22am

geeksauce wrote: »

So nothing then, Mick Wallace has done absolutely nothing for his constituents since being elected, and some here would vote for him again.

I think Mick should put more time into representing those that voted for him in a proper manner and less time breaking the law in Shannon, attending the Euro's in Poland and Ukraine and the World Cup in Brazil. Although I think he did a good job getting back from the World Cup in time to go on his holiday from the Dail. Well done Mick great effort there!!

lol you're a victim of media misinformation and bias against Wallace. Yes he was in Poland/Ukraine, yes he was in Brazil. But you know what ? He has one of the best attendance records in the Dail out of the entire 166 TD's, he is somewhere in the top 10 or 15% for attendance. But don't let the facts get in the way of your ill-informed rant geeksauce, I'm getting déjà-vu all over again

blackwhite wrote: »

You mean stuff like this?
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.358802,-6.254386,3a,75y,319.5h,102.23t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sZHEsNyHPr5ufxZ-eGSrFPA!2e0

Whilst at a ground level the Italian quarter is nice to walk through, from the Quays the buildings look no different to the dozens of others that were thrown up during the Celtic Tiger.

And TBH, if I was one of the dozens of subcontracters that he screwed out of paying then I wouldn't really give a sh*te about the aesthetics or otherwise of his developments.

Likewise, as a taxpayer who he has screwed out of millions, the aesthetics of what he built don't really feature on my list of priorities.

As I said I'm not saying Wallace was a world class architect but even from the example you posted I can easily point out how that is a far more functional building than half the sh1te built in the boom. For one the apartments have balconies, there's loads in Dublin 1 that don't. For another you'll notice the shops are recessed into the building, Wallace has done himself out of money here because there is less retail space as a result. But it is a lot more aesthetically pleasing than retail units with doorways directly onto the street, as you'll see in a lot of new builds in the Dublin 1 area.

Wallace created an awning in that picture, it's a European design primarily set up to give shops shade on the continent except here in Ireland the design is used to shelter shoppers from rain. You see the design a lot in Australia too where the vast majority of retail units have some sort of roof covering outside their door. As I said it's not world class architecture but I'm just pointing out that Wallace left money on the table here- whilst most developers were applying for permission with plans that were designed to do the bare minimum to gain the maximum profits Wallace, like McNamara and Cosgrave Homes, was doing a lot more than the bare minimum and were leaving money on the table in favour of building something with a bit more vision and thought put into it

That picture you linked could so easily have been a boxy unit a la Liam Carroll but instead it's a functional building that looks okay and serves it's purpose well. Like I said not world class architecture but what he built is still head and shoulders above 90% of what was built during the Tigers years because clearly he put a bit of thought and effort in it.

My point stands because he didn't have to do what he did in the Italian Quarter, he spent far more money there than he had to but I'm glad he did because now it's a superb little area to go for a coffee or bite to eat. Compared to Temple Bar just across the river it is an oasis of calm. If one of the usual developers got their hands on the Italian Quarter I've no donut they would have wrecked it and it would be soulless and empty today, like many of their development are. But instead Wallace built it and most locals would readily admit he did an excellent job at it which is probably 50% of the reason why it is thriving throughout the recession -people like going there and going back there; it is a breath of fresh air compared to what's around it.

Mick Wallace and Clare Daly reportedly arrested at Shannon airport.

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