How should Israel defend itself?

Scofflaw

walshb wrote: »

How is this type of language/hate allowed stay posted?

Because Zionism is a political credo, and is treated here as a political credo. Anti-Semitism is not accepted - and neither are attempts to shut debate down by calling one thing another.

Neither you nor seanaway reported the post in question - you went for grandstanding on the thread instead, which is pretty gross hypocrisy.

Don't keep trying it on.

moderately,
Scofflaw

BorneTobyWilde

I think someone who can fight back just might fight back on behalf of the people of Gaza .
Right now it's a one sided fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKd4Yfyh5F0

BorneTobyWilde

We're innocently standing by
Watching people lose their lives
It seems as if we have no voice
It's time for us to make a choice

Only God could decide
Who will live and who will die
There's nothing that can't be done
If we raise our voice as one

They've gotta hear it from me!!!!
They've gotta hear it from you!!!
They've gotta hear it from us!
We can't take it
We've already had enough!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkmCCTbU7U

steveblack

About 14 million jews in the world. Give them the holy land and let them be happy. Every other country on earth is forced to send the children of their leader to israel as a hostage. If a country attacks israel the hostage dies. Thats it, no one attacks israel.
Nothing else seem to work, might as well try what worked in the middle ages.

sheesh

steveblack wrote: »

About 14 million jews in the world. Give them the holy land and let them be happy. Every other country on earth is forced to send the children of their leader to israel as a hostage. If a country attacks israel the hostage dies. Thats it, no one attacks israel.
Nothing else seem to work, might as well try what worked in the middle ages.

what do we do with all the other people that live there?

pO1Neil

they all ready are defending themselves with a giant dome that repeals any rocket attacks.

comongethappy

pO1Neil wrote: »

they all ready are defending themselves with a giant dome that repeals any rocket attacks.

You know its not literally a Simpsons-movie-like dome don't you?

kikidelvin

wrote:

best way for israel to defend against hammas rockets ,plenty of water to put on the blue touch paper.

fran17

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Much has been written in the past few weeks on the deaths of Palestinians by Israeli forces. I find it extremely distressing to see the footage of children being treated after Israeli strikes.

Nevertheless, I consider myself pro-Israel in that I am pro the continued existence of Israel as a democratic state in the Middle East, with much better treatment of LGBT people and woman than they would have in the Palestinian territories.

I do think the response of Israel has been excessive and calamitous for their international reputation.

However, how best is Israel to defend itself against huge numbers of rockets that have been fired at it from Gaza (13,000 since 2001, which amounts to about $10.4 million US)?

I ask this sincerely. How best is Israel to deal with the rockets that are fired at it, for the sake of peace?

they have dealt with the rocket attacks,the multi billion dollar u.s dome defence system.i just cannot understand how we are still getting threads trying to justify and defend this country.just again today another U.N school shelled with more children literally blown to pieces,there arms and legs blown off,by what is now clearly a nation that is without respect for any life,any international laws or without morality of the basic kind.

delop

In my humble opinion, Israel should reach out to Palestinian moderates thru back channels , then
1) Make a cease fire work
2) that cash they get every year from the Us from the 67 peace deal with Egypt , instead of buying arms back off the US with it (which might be a precondition, granted), funnel it into a restructuring/peace fund.

The Conflict has become so intractable and spun , they should clean the slate , and then throw money at the problems , prosperity would go a great distance , to starting a new process, it would take forever , but I don't expect it to every really end..

Naive, probably ... but I firmly believe , that Israel will never have security( and not to mention the palestians right to security) while so many people are dying. Tactically they also seem out of options , what more can you do to Gaza , short of things that would be beyond the pale for moderates.

walshb

fran17 wrote: »

to be honest now considering the actions of israel in the last three weeks,the genocide and there crimes against humanity I don't think anyone would be offended by those remarks.they reap what they sow?

Something tells me that the poster of said remarks didn't post it because of the current "genocide."

fran17

walshb wrote: »

Something tells me that the poster of said remarks didn't post it because of the current "genocide."

yes I did say GENOCIDE,because that's what has been happening in the Gaza strip for many years now.the systematic and ongoing attempt by the jews to destroy,and that is the final goal of the jews,the entire Palestinian people there.through the murder of there women and children,through there control of the medical,electrical and water supply and there constant erosion of there basic human rights,which are now zero.

Nodin

fran17 wrote: »

yes I did say GENOCIDE,because that's what has been happening in the Gaza strip for many years now.the systematic and ongoing attempt by the jews to destroy,and that is the final goal of the jews,the entire Palestinian people there.through the murder of there women and children,through there control of the medical,electrical and water supply and there constant erosion of there basic human rights,which are now zero.

There is no state called "The Jews". It's Israel.

The goal is not genocide but control, the same as sought by any colonial power over a subject people.

Rightwing

Nodin wrote: »

There is no state called "The Jews". It's Israel.

The goal is not genocide but control, the same as sought by any colonial power over a subject people.

I'm not even sure what the goal is anymore, and I doubt they even know themselves.

fran17

Nodin wrote: »

There is no state called "The Jews". It's Israel.

The goal is not genocide but control, the same as sought by any colonial power over a subject people.

Well considering it's the Jewish nation then i think calling them Jews is appropriate,but if you want to split hairs...and if you think that a people that will kill children,asleep in there beds, in a UN school will not continue with there final goal of total Palestine destruction they good luck with that

K-9

fran17 wrote: »

Well considering it's the Jewish nation then i think calling them Jews is appropriate,but if you want to split hairs...and if you think that a people that will kill children,asleep in there beds, in a UN school will not continue with there final goal of total Palestine destruction they good luck with that

Mod:

You may think it is appropriate but it isn't on this forum.

yes I did say GENOCIDE,because that's what has been happening in the Gaza strip for many years now.the systematic and ongoing attempt by the jews to destroy,and that is the final goal of the jews,the entire Palestinian people there

The above is racist language and ignores the distinction between Jewish people and Israel as a state. There is a difference, one that is important on this forum. If you ignore this and keep posting similar stuff it will result in a ban. PM me with any questions.

Gringo180

The best way Israel can defend themselves is to talk to Hamas, like the British talked with the IRA/Sinn Fein. If you don't engage with these people there will be no peace.

Devostator

Did you know, that in the the past 26 days of theIsraeli operation "protective edge" on Gaza theIsraeli military :
1- Killed 1680 Palestinians, over 1100 of them are civilians
2- Killed 330 Palestinian children

seamus

Yep, talking is the only way to end this.

The iron dome adequately defends Israel from poorly aimed and low-tech rocket attacks. Returning fire is throwing a grenade at a man who threw a rock at your house.

If Israel actually wanted to stop, the first thing they would do is extend the olive branch. Use Israeli money provide relief and refuge for Palestinians. Show the Palestinians that Israel wants peace by undermining Hamas's support. Treat the Palestinians as human beings and not prisoners and the extremism will begin to fade. Send the IDF in to rebuild roads and homes and infrastructure.

By all means maintain a blockade, seize and search every ship coming into port, but allow relief workers and relief supplies, filter out the weapons.

This is how the North was won - while Catholics were an oppressed minority, IRA support was never higher. Once laws actually came in to protect Catholics and treat them as equals, IRA support began to fade. The end result is that most NI Catholics now hate the IRA because they represent a threat to their freedom, they're no longer someone who can win them their freedom.

The same needs to happen in Gaza. Free the Palestinians and Hamas's reason for existing dies.

seanaway

''If Israel actually wanted to stop, the first thing they would do is extend the olive branch.''

It did. Hamas broke it and launched rockets as a follow up.

How come none of the Israel bashers are shouting about this?

Peace will come when Israel is not attacked by lunatics who want its total destruction - period.

Egypt has control over the largest crossing into Gaza. Why isn't Hamas launching rockets at Egypt????

The answers are there for all without blinkers to see.

conorh91

seanaway wrote: »

Egypt has control over the largest crossing into Gaza. Why isn't Hamas launching rockets at Egypt????

Because Egypt isn't an occupying power.

Insurgents generally don't use missiles against targets who dare to have an adjacent border. The occupation is sort of the problem.

I do think Hamas—Palestine, even— shares about half the blame for the conflict. But really, some of the pro-Israeli posters come out with the most outlandish statements.

seanaway

conorh91 wrote: »

Because Egypt isn't an occupying power.

Insurgents generally don't use missiles against targets who dare to have an adjacent border. The occupation is sort of the problem.

I do think Hamas—Palestine, even— shares about half the blame for the conflict. But really, some of the pro-Israeli posters come out with the most outlandish statements.

Have you asked yourself why a 'brother arab state' like Egypt is so concerned that it too blockades Gaza and its tunnels?

Gringo180

seanaway wrote: »

Have you asked yourself why a 'brother arab state' like Egypt is so concerned that it too blockades Gaza and its tunnels?

Maybe because its leaders is in the pockets of The Americans??

seamus

seanaway wrote: »

''If Israel actually wanted to stop, the first thing they would do is extend the olive branch.''

It did. Hamas broke it and launched rockets as a follow up.

It didn't really. "Stop firing rockets and we'll stop retaliating" isn't really anything except an offer of a ceasefire.
If you read the rest of my post, I'm referring to an actual offer worth something to the Palestinian people, which would be the first steps towards a peaceful solution. Like lifting the blockade, or otherwise allowing for proper aid relief to get through.

An offer of a ceasefire is not even the first step towards peace. It's an offer to put the fighting on hold for the time being and nothing more.

seanaway wrote: »

Have you asked yourself why a 'brother arab state' like Egypt is so concerned that it too blockades Gaza and its tunnels?

Because Egypt would be the most peaceful and western friendly nation in the region, not to mention that it wants to keep the peace with Israel due to the fact that Israel has an enormous army and most likely a few nukes too.

If Egypt were to lift blockades on its borders, it knows that it would be flooded with refugees from Palestine going one way, and Hamas sympathisers going the other way. Israel would not be shy about invading the region to shut it down, and would probably not be quick to leave any regions they occupy.

conorh91

seanaway wrote: »

Have you asked yourself why a 'brother arab state' like Egypt is so concerned that it too blockades Gaza and its tunnels?

Yes, but why are you moving the goalposts?

For what it's worth, the Arab world has been unhelpful to the Palestinians.

But they are all entitled to secure their borders and maintain their international relations and there is no inherent reason why Hamas should attack them for so doing.

You do understand the difference between doing the above and actually occupying a territory… don't you?

satguy

Israel should just keep doing what it has been doing for the last 20 years or so... , keep killing women and children..

They just seem so good at it, or maybe they have special training camps somewhere...

dissed doc

Devostator wrote: »

Did you know, that in the the past 26 days of theIsraeli operation "protective edge" on Gaza theIsraeli military :
1- Killed 1680 Palestinians, over 1100 of them are civilians
2- Killed 330 Palestinian children

5500 dead under the the last 6 months of the developing ISlamic State/ISIS/The Levant

Does not seem to cause the same level of outrage, but perhaps the spotlight is on Israel, not radical Islam sects, as it kills thousands of Christians, burns the Mosques of disbelievers, etc, etc., .

ISIS threatens also Jordan. So far there is no attack on Israel. It is entirely more complex than simply accusing Israel of being the bad guy. No one condones violence, yet the finger is being pointing in a direction exclusively at Israel, when multiples of numbers are dead under the hand of the growing radical Islamic forces.

conorh91

dissed doc wrote: »

5500 dead under the the last 6 months of the developing ISlamic State/ISIS/The Levant

Does not seem to cause the same level of outrage

This is a problem for Israeli supporters.

The occasion of hypocritical criticism A has no bearing on the truth or falsehood of the substance of that criticism. It stands alone.

It may be legitimate to 'prefer' one cause over another where uniquely pressing circumstances exist. In Gaza's case, this might include the effective confinement of civilians to one small, shrinking territory, and the cumulative rate of killing, over many years. Gaza didn't start this year.

Nevertheless, the salient point is that hypocrisy is not a legitimate defense to the criticism that has been made. This is logically unassailable.

renegademaster

Gringo180 wrote: »

Maybe because its leaders is in the pockets of The Americans??

the whole planet is under the thumb of the americans/israelis

seanaway

seamus wrote: »

Because Egypt would be the most peaceful and western friendly nation in the region, not to mention that it wants to keep the peace with Israel due to the fact that Israel has an enormous army and most likely a few nukes too.

If Egypt were to lift blockades on its borders, it knows that it would be flooded with refugees from Palestine going one way, and Hamas sympathisers going the other way. Israel would not be shy about invading the region to shut it down, and would probably not be quick to leave any regions they occupy.

Sorry. This is just ill informed nonsense.

Why hasn't this happened with the west bank then?
Why didn't this happen before the blockade?
Israel has nukes? Yep. Do you SERIOUSLY in the real world we live in think this has ANYTHING to do with it??????

PLEASE! Get real and stop spouting rubbish.

If a REAL and LASTING peace is to be reached then Hamas and those FEW who support them must accept the real meanig of PEACE.

It is NOT a pick and choose option.

Stop firing rockets at Israel.
Sit and talk.
Stop with the 'No Surrender' bull (aka NOrthern Ireland bull)
Accept their OWN people do not want to be bombed as a result of their selfish two faced actions.
Then and ONLY then will their be a TRUE hope of peace.