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How should Israel defend itself?

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    #62
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    wes wrote: »
    The operative word there is "if". There seems to be scant evidence of Hamas making attacks from hospital roof tops etc.

    Last week on BBC radio 4's 'Today' programme, they aired a recorded interview with a doctor from a Gaza hospital.

    The interview was interrupted by the booming nouse of a rocket salvo being fired from just outside the hospital.



    Make no mistake.... It does happen.


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    #63
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    P_1 wrote: »
    But wouldn't the launcher be long gone by the time that Israel responds in kind?

    It just doesn't strike me as a sound military option to take. Israel are taking far too much of a reactive response when they should be taking a more proactive one.

    Absolutely.... Makes no sense to me either.... Especially with the truck mounted rockets.
    They still get nailed from time to time if there is a jet loitering around.

    But its not a sound strategy.


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    #64
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Last week on BBC radio 4's 'Today' programme, they aired a recorded interview with a doctor from a Gaza hospital.

    The interview was interrupted by the booming nouse of a rocket salvo being fired from just outside the hospital.

    You have a link? Not finding anything via Google. Also, considering how loud those things can be, I think it would be hard to pin point such an exact location via a phone call.

    Also, you were making claims of rockets being fired from the rooftops of hospitals....


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    #65
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Last week on BBC radio 4's 'Today' programme, they aired a recorded interview with a doctor from a Gaza hospital.

    The interview was interrupted by the booming nouse of a rocket salvo being fired from just outside the hospital.



    Make no mistake.... It does happen.

    Of course it does. The IDF released pictures of the Al-Wafa hospital being used as a launch site http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183148#.U80SKfldV8E

    and also video of palestinian homes being used by Hamas to fire at the IDF


    The attitude of the anti-Israeli types on here is astounding. Do they really think that Hamas are operating in the best interests of the Gazan people? Do they really think that Hamas wouldn't put Gazan people in danger? Do they really think that Hamas wouldn't fire rockets or mortars from the vicinity of hospitals, schools and mosques? Do they really think that Hamas wouldn't use human shields?


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    #66
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    wes wrote: »
    You have a link? Not finding anything via Google. Also, considering how loud those things can be, I think it would be hard to pin point such an exact location via a phone call.

    Also, you were making claims of rockets being fired from the rooftops of hospitals....

    I don't.... It was on either Wednesday or Thursday I think, could be on iPlayer.

    The doctor made reference to it being outside.
    Proximity hard to tell, but it would have been metres, it seemed very close, the building shook.


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    #67
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Of course it does. The IDF released pictures of the Al-Wafa hospital being used as a launch site


    Well, that must be an unbiased and totally reliable report then so.


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    #68
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    I think the actions of Israel to attack Hamas militants is about as useful as opening fire using armoured vehicles on an audience in Croke Park to try and attack the IRA.


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    #69
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    comongethappy wrote: »
    I don't.... It was on either Wednesday or Thursday I think, could be on iPlayer.

    The doctor made reference to it being outside.
    Proximity hard to tell, but it would have been metres, it seemed very close, the building shook.

    I went looking for any mention of that, and didn't find it anywhere. iPlayer is blocked outside the UK btw, so I have no way of confirming it, and I can' find a news article mentioning it either.


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    #70
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Absolutely.... Makes no sense to me either.... Especially with the truck mounted rockets.
    They still get nailed from time to time if there is a jet loitering around.

    But its not a sound strategy.

    It's difficult either way, if Israel goes in on the ground then Hamas have booby-trapped the area, seven of the IDF soldiers that were lost on Saturday were killed when a gigantic mine was detonated under their armoured personnel carrier.


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    #71
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    wes wrote: »
    I went looking for any mention of that, and didn't find it anywhere. iPlayer is blocked outside the UK btw, so I have no way of confirming it, and I can' find a news article mentioning it either.

    It's easy to get around iplayer block, just use a uk proxy.


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    #72
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    It's easy to get around iplayer block, just use a uk proxy.

    I know, but honestly considering that my search turned up nothing, and I don't know which day it was, and the lack of a provided link, I have already made plenty of effort to see if the claim is true. Ultimately its up to whoever is making the claim to back it up.


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    #73
    carpejugulum
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭carpejugulum


    Sovereign Palestine is the only option.
    But religious and nationalist fanatics on both sides have made that very difficult.


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    #74
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    wes wrote: »
    I know, but honestly considering that my search turned up nothing, and I don't know which day it was, and the lack of a provided link, I have already made plenty of effort to see if the claim is true. Ultimately its up to whoever is making the claim to back it up.

    I'll just start listening back through 3hrs of radio time just for you!

    Believe if you wish (I doubt you will).... So its moot, you have your views, they aren't for turning.


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    #75
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    comongethappy wrote: »
    I'll just start listening back through 3hrs of radio time just for you!

    Believe if you wish (I doubt you will).... So its moot, you have your views, they aren't for turning.

    Well, if your going to take that attitude towards a such a simple request, for a link......

    I did btw go looking for it and didn't find anything, and generally its expected on here for people making claims to back them up.


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    #76
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    wes wrote: »
    Well, if your going to take that attitude towards a such a simple request, for a link......

    Go nuts Wes....
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qj9z

    As I said, Wednesday or Thursday last week.... I think Thursday.


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    #77
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Absolutely.... Makes no sense to me either.... Especially with the truck mounted rockets.
    They still get nailed from time to time if there is a jet loitering around.

    But its not a sound strategy.

    Militarily speaking a better option would be to have a fleet of drones patrolling the skies above Gaza with a unit dedicated to monitoring the live feed. Once somebody is observed setting up a rocket then a drone can fire (preferably a non lethal) round at them to prevent the rocket from being fired in the first place.


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    #78
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Go nuts Wes....
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qj9z

    So I am suppose to search through a rather large archive, to prove your point. Sorry, I have better things to do.


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    #79
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    wes wrote: »
    I have better things to do.

    I can't believe that without a link.


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    #80
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Haaretz have done a pretty good analysis of the fighting in Shujaiyah based on comments from soldiers rotated out of the fighting http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.606414 As an aside, at least the IDF soldiers can give an objective, reasoned, sobering view of the actual fighting unlike the "Allah Akbar, kill the jews" rants that Hamas fighters come out with.


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    #81
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    P_1 wrote: »
    Militarily speaking a better option would be to have a fleet of drones patrolling the skies above Gaza with a unit dedicated to monitoring the live feed. Once somebody is observed setting up a rocket then a drone can fire (preferably a non lethal) round at them to prevent the rocket from being fired in the first place.

    Drones are easily nailed by manpads though, too slow & low.


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    #82
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    comongethappy wrote: »
    I can't believe that without a link.

    Well, seeing as you can't provide a link to the show in question, and after searching online myself, and seeing no one else reporting this, and after searching the archive earlier myself, and still having not found anything, it is not unreasonable for me to ask for you back up your claim.


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    #83
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Drones are easily nailed by manpads though, too slow & low.

    True but it probably is worth developing one that can fly higher


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    #84
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    P_1 wrote: »
    Militarily speaking a better option would be to have a fleet of drones patrolling the skies above Gaza with a unit dedicated to monitoring the live feed. Once somebody is observed setting up a rocket then a drone can fire (preferably a non lethal) round at them to prevent the rocket from being fired in the first place.

    I think the Israelis already have something like that in place, but there are a few caveats
    1: Human operators can miss things
    2: Despite people saying Gaza is small, it's still an area of over 100 square miles, very hard to keep a 24/7 eye on everything


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    #85
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    I think the Israelis already have something like that in place, but there are a few caveats
    1: Human operators can miss things
    2: Despite people saying Gaza is small, it's still an area of over 100 square miles, very hard to keep a 24/7 eye on everything

    True but I'd imagine that it wouldn't be the Manhattan Project to create some sort of recognizant software to help ease the burden.


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    #86
    john.han
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭john.han


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    I think the Israelis already have something like that in place, but there are a few caveats
    1: Human operators can miss things
    2: Despite people saying Gaza is small, it's still an area of over 100 square miles, very hard to keep a 24/7 eye on everything

    That'll be easier once you flatten it.


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    #87
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    I ask this sincerely. How best is Israel to deal with the rockets that are fired at it, for the sake of peace?

    The root cause of the rocket fire is Israel's continued expansion into lands that never belonged to it. While the rocket fire and any other attacks against civilians are deplorable, all Israel has to do in order to gain the international community's sympathy is withdraw to its legitimate borders.
    Until it does that, in my view, no military action is justified. When the reason you're being attacked is because you're committing a vile crime, you should cease to commit said crime before retaliating.


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    #88
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    seanaway wrote: »
    This forum's point is about how Israel should/can defend itself - not about Palestinian issues - however valid they may be.

    And yet, the only legitimate method of defense at this time would be to end the crimes against the Palestinians which are provoking the violence. Until then, many will not support any military action against said violence.


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    #89
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,946 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Where does Hamas get its massive stockpile of rockets? Ongoing supply or stored supplies?


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    #90
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    walshb wrote: »
    Where does Hamas get its massive stockpile of rockets? Ongoing supply or stored supplies?

    I think they make them?


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    #91
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,946 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    comongethappy wrote: »
    I think they make them?

    I was going to add this in.


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