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It seems Enda has taken to poking the Irish Language Community with a stick.

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13

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    #62
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    calanus wrote: »
    Why though. What would this department be different from any other?

    Níl a fhios agam.


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    #63
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    GaelMise wrote: »
    You dont need to have a degree in accounting to be fianance minister, but being able to count is surely a prerequisit.

    You dont need a degree in language planning to be Minister for the Gaeltacht, but being able to speak Irish is necessary to the job.

    Yeah but thing is we shouldn't have a Minister for Gaeltacht, it is ludicrous that we do at all.


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    #64
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Reformed Character wrote: »
    Yeah but thing is we shouldn't have a Minister for Gaeltacht, it is ludicrous that we do at all.

    That's a separate argument. But a minister will talk to other ministers in English 99% of his business will be conducted in English.


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    #65
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    On a serious note politicians like to play it safe I'm sure if Enda had a candidate who spoke Irish that candidate would have been chosen. The fact there wasn't one speaks volumes for how weak Irish is.


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    #66
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    GaelMise wrote: »
    You dont need to have a degree in accounting to be fianance minister, but being able to count is surely a prerequisit.

    You dont need a degree in language planning to be Minister for the Gaeltacht, but being able to speak Irish is necessary to the job.

    What next? The Minister for Transport will have to know how to drive a bus? Minister for Tourism will have to be a tourist? Minister for Agriculture and Defence will have to be a farmer with a shotgun?

    Times, they are a changing...they've been changing since Ms. Harney was Minister for Health.


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    #67
    _Puma_
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭_Puma_


    Ok as an IT analogy, I wouldn't appoint someone who cant read C# to a C# role when all he knows is Java. Sure he could prob get the gist of what the code does and could prob pick it up after a while but he is not the right person. Same case here if the guy cant work with the language the majority of his business is being done in then he is not the right person, you get the right person for the role.

    I actually think there is a more sinister side to this appointment and you just have to look at what this guy has commented on in the past and what senior member of cabinet he is close with in the Fine Gael party to see the agenda that will be followed, as apparently they had hit a brick wall the incumbent.

    Actually has nothing to do with the Irish language or promoting it in the Gaeltacht. If these guys get their way a lot of people in the Gaeltacht will be better off picking up some Norwegian rather than Irish.


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    #68
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    GaelMise wrote: »
    You dont need to have a degree in accounting to be fianance minister, but being able to count is surely a prerequisit.

    You dont need a degree in language planning to be Minister for the Gaeltacht, but being able to speak Irish is necessary to the job.

    If the minister for finance just needs to be able to count, would that not be the equivalent of the minister in charge of Gealtacht affairs having a basic knowledge of Irish, which I'm sure he does. Hes just not fluent. Or did he not go to school at all?


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    #69
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    I'm too busy being a normal irish person to be concerned with this peasant baffle language.


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    #70
    animaal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 815 ✭✭✭animaal


    _Puma_ wrote: »
    Ok as an IT analogy, I wouldn't appoint someone who cant read C# to a C# role when all he knows is Java.

    To mangle your analogy a little, I'd consider the minister to be more like a Project Manager than a developer. The developer would be more comparable to the people (shop keepers, teachers, etc) working in the gaeltacht.

    I wouldn't expect a Project Manager to know C#.


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    #71
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    animaal wrote: »
    To mangle your analogy a little, I'd consider the minister to be more like a Project Manager than a developer. The developer would be more comparable to the people (shop keepers, teachers, etc) working in the gaeltacht.

    I wouldn't expect a Project Manager to know C#.

    Do you even HTML brah?


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    #72
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    animaal wrote: »
    To mangle your analogy a little, I'd consider the minister to be more like a Project Manager than a developer. The developer would be more comparable to the people (shop keepers, teachers, etc) working in the gaeltacht.

    I wouldn't expect a Project Manager to know C#.

    Exactly he will be in charge of civil servants already fluent or proficient in Irish. So no need to be fluent to run the department.


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    #73
    animaal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 815 ✭✭✭animaal


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Do you even HTML brah?

    Most PMs I've known wouldn't ;)


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    #74
    _Puma_
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭_Puma_


    animaal wrote: »
    To mangle your analogy a little, I'd consider the minister to be more like a Project Manager than a developer. The developer would be more comparable to the people (shop keepers, teachers, etc) working in the gaeltacht.

    I wouldn't expect a Project Manager to know C#.

    But a good project manager is someone who has worked with the language before and understands the environment the Developer works in. You will always see the best PM's were senior Developers who get bumped up into an architecture or PM role. It doen't always happen but give me a PM who was a developer over someone from marketing being made a PM any day of the week.

    This guy has never lived in the gaeltacht nor has he ever had any conversational Irish. Not the right person for the role and I seriously think there is another motive here.


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    #75
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    _Puma_ wrote: »
    But a good project manager is someone who has worked with the language before and understands the environment the Developer works in. You will always see the best PM's were senior Developers who get bumped up into an architecture or PM role. It doen't always happen but give me a PM who was a developer over someone from marketing being made a PM any day of the week.

    This guy has never lived in the gaeltacht nor has he ever had any conversational Irish. Not the right person for the role and I seriously think their is another motive here.

    I would agree but being experienced in the area is not a requirement for the job. You dont need to have worked in finance, with children, be foreign in the HSE to be any of the corresponding ministers so why all of a sudden do we need one who speaks Irish to deal with the Gaeltheacht. While I find it a bit strange myself, is there an aspect of his job he is unable to do?


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    #76
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,503 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Lawyers for justice and so on.

    Put me in mind of these weasels for some reason

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLN4iPhYoyY


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    #77
    GaelMise
    Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭GaelMise


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I would agree but being experienced in the area is not a requirement for the job. You dont need to have worked in finance, with children, be foreign in the HSE to be any of the corresponding ministers so why all of a sudden do we need one who speaks Irish to deal with the Gaeltheacht. While I find it a bit strange myself, is there an aspect of his job he is unable to do?

    Yes! He is unable to speak the language that the section he is supposed to lead opperates in, he is unable to communicate with the various stakeholders in his area of responsibility in their own language, his mere presence requires those around him to switch from Irish to English, which is contrary to the aim of the department he represents.


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    #78
    _Puma_
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭_Puma_


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I would agree but being experienced in the area is not a requirement for the job. You dont need to have worked in finance, with children, be foreign in the HSE to be any of the corresponding ministers so why all of a sudden do we need one who speaks Irish to deal with the Gaeltheacht. While I find it a bit strange myself, is there an aspect of his job he is unable to do?

    I would think that being able to speak the language (Write code) or live in the area(Understand Computer science) would be the very minimum for a management role to promote the language (project goal). I dunno its just an opinion from my own experiences in working in companies and maybe it is different elsewhere but surely there was someone else that would have some of the above. That's why I think there is an alterior goal here.


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    #79
    Arthur Beesley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Arthur Beesley


    GaelMise wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/treibh/they-wouldn-t-would-they-1.1867225#.U8VoY3YwsYo.email

    It seems that one major protest on the streets of Dublin this year are not enough for Enda. Needless stupidity seems to be the hallmark of this government unfortunatly.

    I hope all the fluent Irish speakers don't protest...might slow traffic slightly.


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    #80
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    GaelMise wrote: »
    Yes! He is unable to speak the language that the section he is supposed to lead opperates in, he is unable to communicate with the various stakeholders in his area of responsibility in their own language, his mere presence requires those around him to switch from Irish to English, which is contrary to the aim of the department he represents.

    People can either speak English to him or use a translator. He can still do his other duties.
    _Puma_ wrote: »
    I would think that being able to speak the language (Write code) or live in the area(Understand Computer science) would be the very minimum for a management role to promote the language (project goal). I dunno its just an opinion from my own experiences in working in companies and maybe it is different elsewhere but surely there was someone else that would have some of the above. That's why I think there is an alterior goal here.

    I would think that too but yet I dont see any requirements for any of the minister positions. Any old teacher from mayo can be put in as one despite not having a clue.


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    #81
    GaelMise
    Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭GaelMise


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    People can either speak English to him or use a translator. He can still do his other duties.

    They could, but having to do so is contrary to what his role as minister actually is.


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    #82
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    GaelMise wrote: »
    They could, but having to do so is contrary to what his role as minister actually is.
    His role is to listen to people speak Irish? What?


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    #83
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    GaelMise wrote: »
    They could, but having to do so is contrary to what his role as minister actually is.

    If all he does is talk to people in Irish he seems a bit pointless.
    Who were the Irish speaking alternatives and how would they have been better? Speaking Irish is fine but what about any other thing they are supposed to do?


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    #84
    Pique
    Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭Pique


    2 recent health ministers looked like they would have major health issues.

    Agriculture ministers that never spent time on a farm.

    Finance minister without a bank account.

    Education minister who (shock horror) wasn't a teacher.

    Defence minister who wasn't a soldier.

    Foreign Affairs minister who wwasn't foreign.


    Am I the only one who thinks that if the person is capable of the role (in this case, bringing employment to the Gaeltacht, and improving the reach of the Irish language) then they might actually hire individual experts (consultants, farm leaders, military analysts, lecturers, and native speakers) to assist and advise them?

    No?

    OK, Rabble Rabble it is then.


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    #85
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    What a load of ****.

    All Irish speakers can speak English.

    Who gives a toss what the minister can speak as long as they do a good job.


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    #86
    Jogathon
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭Jogathon


    The newly appointed Minister for Education is a qualified Montessori teacher....so, not a qualified teacher then? Montessori is not recognised by the department as a teaching qualification for payroll purposes. She won't have a clue either.


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    #87
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Pique wrote: »
    2 recent health ministers looked like they would have major health issues.
    Agriculture ministers that never spent time on a farm.
    Finance minister without a bank account.
    Education minister who (shock horror) wasn't a teacher.
    Defence minister who wasn't a soldier.
    Foreign Affairs minister who wwasn't foreign.
    Am I the only one who thinks that if the person is capable of the role (in this case, bringing employment to the Gaeltacht, and improving the reach of the Irish language) then they might actually hire individual experts (consultants, farm leaders, military analysts, lecturers, and native speakers) to assist and advise them? No?
    OK, Rabble Rabble it is then.

    One of the earliest standard works on constitutional law advocated this very state of affairs, arguing that farmer should not be Agriculture Minister or a teacher Education Minister etc., partly because the minister might be too pally with those he should be regulating. With the exception of Justice, this has been largely followed in this state.


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    #88
    Irlandczyk
    Registered Users Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Irlandczyk


    Ridiculous amount of facetiousness in this thread. It's either that or unwarranted bile directed at a fcuking language. Posters reading what the title of the thread is and coming in just to snipe at the language and/or the OP. Makes me fcuking sick sometimes reading the absolute shíte some people come out with. As if the Irish language raped wives, murdered husbands, and felt up little children the way some people speak of it. Whatever people's opinions are - and they're certainly entitled to them, Ireland loses a richness with the death of the Irish language. I'd hate to see it go.

    FWIW, I do agree that having a minister who isn't fluent in Irish assigned to handle the affairs of the Gaeltacht is a pretty stupid move. However, I also agree that if he does a good job, then so be it. I wouldn't be outraged just yet. Let the man do his job first, and make judgements then. I don't think it'll work out, frankly. Oh yes, he'll take a refresher course in the language. He will... honest... he'll take it very seriously.

    Apart from that, his past insistence on fish farming makes him a deeply unpleasant man in my eyes: can't get behind the idea of factory farming livestock at all.


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    #89
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    I'm too busy being a normal irish person to be concerned with this peasant baffle language.

    Agree or disagree, people are entitled to their opinion, but this is bigotry.


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    #90
    Interest in History
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭Interest in History


    GaelMise wrote: »
    There were more Irish Language protesters, and we will still be protesting long after Brooks is forgotten.

    It's simply that times are changing.

    Irish is losing its force as a political symbol and hence its supporters are losing their influence over the politicians. So, even though some lip service continues, everybody knows that any minister of anything at all will be fully functional through English. In practical terms it doesn't matter and in terms of political leverage it matters less and less as time goes by.


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    #91
    Interest in History
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭Interest in History


    Irlandczyk wrote: »
    ....................

    FWIW, I do agree that having a minister who isn't fluent in Irish assigned to handle the affairs of the Gaeltacht is a pretty stupid move. However, I also agree that if he does a good job, then so be it. I wouldn't be outraged just yet. Let the man do his job first, and make judgements then. I don't think it'll work out, frankly. Oh yes, he'll take a refresher course in the language. He will... honest... he'll take it very seriously.

    ......

    Good point.

    And anyway he doesn't need Irish in order to do his job unless the job consists in talking Irish.


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