***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

geeksauce

listermint wrote: »

I think he actually wants a link to that already not disputed fact that the charges will be there to cover the cost of IW, which we were told by Enda would be a rise of what 4%.

So if he cant take Endas word that the charges would go up dramatically once they have the ball rolling i dont know what he wants.

And history indicated that no efficiency will ever be made, it will just be increase after increase to 'cover' the costs of the staff and whatever new cost needs covering under IW.

Any chance of you backing up your claims in relation to my recent post please listermint, or were you just making stuff up?

Barely There

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

And they expect people to come up with money they don't have ???

I think they expect people to fund the services they wish to receive as a society from the taxes and charges imposed on them.
It's hardly rocket science.

Given that we can't really do without water - The argument about water charges is whether working people should continue to fund the system though their taxes or whether a broader charge should be applied to society at large.

Most of the people who turn up at these marches are too dumb to grasp this reasonably simple concept and have had the likes of the Shinners and the AAA whispering in their ears for years now that there is a magical way we can fund services without paying for them.

The bitching and moaning on this thread about broken political systems is a smoke-screen for the typical Irish attitude of 'how can I get away without paying my fair share'.

listermint

Daith wrote: »

That wasn't your point.

"I think its only fair the rest of the country should pay too."

However Enda said that tax should raise by 4% instead of Irish Water. Did taxes decrease by 4% then?

Of course, my pockets are so full now i think i can pay for the water charge.

Its based on consumption , right?

Like the Meter outside my apartment.

Oh wait no yeah I dont have a meter..... Though this was about consumption.

I feel so much wealthier after the budget with all my tax gains....



:pac:

geeksauce

listermint wrote: »

Ive read your posts. You havent been to one.

You are sidelining an incident at a Garda Station as something to do with the grass roots community organised nationwide marches.


Your mask fell off around the corner, I can pop around and get it for you.

geeksauce wrote: »

Yeah please do go get it??? Whatever that means. You may want to read my post again and try to grasp a better understanding of it. Here let me give you a little hand reading the simple bit of text. I said

Exactly, if I were at a protest and I realised that SF and the AAA were there organising things I would simply turn around and head home. The protests should be about the public being upset and annoyed about these charges, they shouldn't be hijacked by any political party trying to win votes. The more they turn up at protests with banners etc the more people they will drive away from the protests.

The part highlighted in bold above pretty much explains everything, in particular the use of the word IF, you see that isn't me saying I was at any protests as you seem to claim that is me saying if I were at a protest do you understand this now?

Also, I would be delighted if you could highlight the part where I mentioned anything (now anything at all) about an incident at a Garda Station. I have read my post again a couple of times now and cant find any reference to a Garda Station in it. You seem to have found a reference in it so if you could be so kind as to quote my post and highlight said reference that'd be great.

Well Lister?????

Daith

Barely There wrote: »

The bitching and moaning on this thread about broken political systems is a smoke-screen for the typical Irish attitude of 'how can I get away without paying my fair share'.

My argument is whether or not Irish Water is actually needed. Especially as the primary goal of Irish Water is to be a viable entity first. Their communication on how they're going to "fix" the water infrastructure is shockingly bad. I know I'm a consumer though.

I mean it's obviously needed as a way to remove debt from Government books but other than that?

listermint

geeksauce wrote: »

Any chance of you backing up your claims in relation to my recent post please listermint, or were you just making stuff up?

I backed it up, you are dancing around waving your hands that the protests are all to do with SF AAA Eirigi. And there is an inference that you seem to think the one at Clontarf Garda Station has something to do with the nationwide ones.

This is based solely on the fact you only started going on about an anarchy element in the nationwide protest and how this would turn everyone away after the Clontarf incident was mentioned here.


you were not going on about anarchy yesterday morning. So the clever assumption here is that you are putting those two together.

Or are you not?

Are you going to actually come out with the truth that all Nationwide protests have been massively peaceful. have had people from all walks of life have been organised by the communitees in which they stem from.


Il wait for your response.

ROCKMAN

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

Exactly a link to the future which you obviously cant provide so how can you be so sure. Of course there me be small increases, few percent here and there over the years but you can be sure it wont be anything significant.

Look at the end of the day as I said if there were no water charges all the better but I can see the logic (everyone pays, ring fenced for water etc etc) in their introduction especially when coupled with reduced income taxes, especially as it will cost taxpayers more if they pay it in tax rather than a charge due to subsiding those who pay no tax.

It will be irrelevant to me anyway in a few years as I will most likely be living in my home area where compulsory water charges have been in place for years and they wont be going away so to be honest I think its only fair the rest of the country should pay too.

Yes everybody pays but the money risen will not be ring fenced for water , In the Governments own words it will be off book and allow them to borrow to fix infrastructure , As for your first point "small increases " These loans and their interest will have to be paid back and the only way is to pass it on to customers, So small increases are hardly going to cover this with the amount of money we are talking about.

listermint

geeksauce wrote: »

Well Lister?????

Ive answered you.

Now answer me, Why are you commenting on something you know nothing about ? And why do you keep on going on about an anarchy element marginalising the protests. When there is none and has been none.

you have no experience of them, yet you still feel qualified to make comment on them.

Shall i keep asking you for responses. Or are you going to keep making false claims about them???

LuckyLloyd

If the reforms people are looking for are not provided by the time their first bill is due simply refuse to pay. I don't believe the Government has the will to see thousands upon thousands dragged through the courts for non payment. Someone claimed to me recently that the court system could deal with the processing of huge rates of non payment. Maybe, but FG / Labour won't.

Don't pay, stand firm. It will be broken.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Barely There wrote: »

I think they expect people to fund the services they wish to receive as a society from the taxes and charges imposed on them.
It's hardly rocket science.

Given that we can't really do without water - The argument about water charges is whether working people should continue to fund the system though their taxes or whether a broader charge should be applied to society at large.

Most of the people who turn up at these marches are too dumb to grasp this reasonably simple concept and have had the likes of the Shinners and the AAA whispering in their ears for years now that there is a magical way we can fund services without paying for them.

The bitching and moaning on this thread about broken political systems is a smoke-screen for the typical Irish attitude of 'how can I get away without paying my fair share'.

Thing is, hasn't water been paid for through other taxes already. Introducing a new water charge is just a second way of charging for water. Its hardly fair on people.

geeksauce

listermint wrote: »

I backed it up,

Eh no you didn't, I asked you to quote my post and highlight the part where I said I was at a protest and also the part where I referenced a Garda Station

You haven't done this, so how exactly did you back it up. You never actually responded to the post where I asked you to back it up, yet you now claim you did back it up?

you are dancing around waving your hands that the protests are all to do with SF AAA Eirigi.

No I'm not, I would ask you to show something to support this claim but maybe we should start with baby steps first and you can show an ability to support previous claims before we get to this one.

And there is an inference that you seem to think the one at Clontarf Garda Station has something to do with the nationwide ones.

Already asked you to show me where I reference Garda Stations any Garda Station, you still haven't done this, Can you do it now?

This is based solely on the fact you only started going on about an anarchy element in the nationwide protest and how this would turn everyone away after the Clontarf incident was mentioned here.

you were not going on about anarchy yesterday morning. So the clever assumption here is that you are putting those two together.

Or are you not?

Are you going to actually come out with the truth that all Nationwide protests have been massively peaceful. have had people from all walks of life have been organised by the communitees in which they stem from.


Il wait for your response.

As I await yours, pity this is the 3rd or 4th time I have asked you for it. So now let me ask you again Lister to do two things and I will break this down very simply for you because you seem incapable of grasping it as of yet:

a) Show me where I claimed to have been at a protest in the following post:

Exactly, if I were at a protest and I realised that SF and the AAA were there organising things I would simply turn around and head home. The protests should be about the public being upset and annoyed about these charges, they shouldn't be hijacked by any political party trying to win votes. The more they turn up at protests with banners etc the more people they will drive away from the protests.

And

b) Show me where I made reference to a Garda Station in the following post:

Exactly, if I were at a protest and I realised that SF and the AAA were there organising things I would simply turn around and head home. The protests should be about the public being upset and annoyed about these charges, they shouldn't be hijacked by any political party trying to win votes. The more they turn up at protests with banners etc the more people they will drive away from the protests.

moxin

Barely There wrote: »

The bitching and moaning on this thread about broken political systems is a smoke-screen for the typical Irish attitude of 'how can I get away without paying my fair share'.

Speaking of fair share, have you paid your property tax for 2015 yet? Revenue have sent out the bills, hope you have those pennies saved.

listermint

geeksauce wrote: »

Eh no you didn't, I asked you to quote my post and highlight the part where I said I was at a protest and also the part where I referenced a Garda Station

You haven't done this, so how exactly did you back it up. You never actually responded to the post where I asked you to back it up, yet you now claim you did back it up?



No I'm not, I would ask you to show something to support this claim but maybe we should start with baby steps first and you can show an ability to support previous claims before we get to this one.



Already asked you to show me where I reference Garda Stations any Garda Station, you still haven't done this, Can you do it now?



As I await yours, pity this is the 3rd or 4th time I have asked you for it. So now let me ask you again Lister to do two things and I will break this down very simply for you because you seem incapable of grasping it as of yet:

a) Show me where I claimed to have been at a protest in the following post:



And

b) Show me where I made reference to a Garda Station in the following post:

you clearly didnt read my post. I NEVER once claimed you were at a protest what so ever. I told you that you were not at a protest so stop making inferences that anarchy will prevail and good people will turn their back.

(you know all of this already)

Secondly you only started to go on about anarchy after the clontarf incident. So it would be an obvious assumption to make based on your new posting directional content that you think there is a link.


Im done with this particular post stream now as ive answered you three times on this but you cannot read.

In Lonesome Dove

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Sorry mods ..but have to reply

I DO NOT for one minute support any of their ideas or notions But...
Maybe it was just a moment of madness from these people and a nicely worded Apology will make it all better.

I'm only relatively new to Facebook myself. Some of these anti water, anti government pages/groups I did like but I don't usually take part commenting on things so you'll never see me rattling out such words - on Facebook or the Journal or other sites.

Years ago under an old boards account taking part in discussions I'd rattle out such things like
'I hope he breaks his hole'
as an example.

I'm more mindful these days about what I type and put out.

But going back to distasteful commentating, I know from me anyways, it would have been a group of words stuck together to make a sentence and coming from a place of disappointment or something and showing that within the wording. It was never me writing something like: 'I'm going to go out and break his hole' or even advocating that others would do such.

In relation to the currant news and people fecking about such remarks. I would see them comments as flippant putting across perhaps a disappointment or a fear perhaps. Perhaps fearful of the future, like 'how am I going to meet this new bill?' Perhaps anger with an injustice that they feel. Sometimes I would actually read some comments and see it as humour, at the way they've worded their disappointment, fear, anger, etc and laugh heartily. But that's not to say if such a flippant comment was to happen for real like for example 'I hope a raging fire burns his arse' that I would find such a thing funny.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Thing is, hasn't water been paid for through other taxes already. Introducing a new water charge is just a second way of charging for water. Its hardly fair on people.

And taxes have been reduced in the budget to compensate, leaving many people actually better off.

geeksauce

listermint wrote: »

you clearly didnt read my post. I NEVER once claimed you were at a protest what so ever. I told you that you were not at a protest so stop making inferences that anarchy will prevail and good people will turn their back.

(you know all of this already)

Secondly you only started to go on about anarchy after the clontarf incident. So it would be an obvious assumption to make based on your new posting directional content that you think there is a link.


Im done with this particular post stream now as ive answered you three times on this but you cannot read.

No you haven't lister, you have lied on numerous occasions now, and I have shown that you have lied. Maybe the reason you are done with this particular post stream is because it is quite clear that you lied and that you have dug such a big hole for yourself that you can't find a way out.

In future if you wish to quote my posts, I think it would be best that you don't lie when quoting them.

Barely There

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Thing is, hasn't water been paid for through other taxes already. Introducing a new water charge is just a second way of charging for water. Its hardly fair on people.

Errrr - you do realise that there's an on-going cost to provide water?
It's not a one-off thing.

The argument is not about how water provision was funded in the past - it's about how we want to fund it in the future.

mynameismud

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

And taxes have been reduced in the budget to compensate, leaving many people actually better off.

Link?

geeksauce

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Thing is, hasn't water been paid for through other taxes already. Introducing a new water charge is just a second way of charging for water. Its hardly fair on people.

Not everybody pays these taxes though, so that is what is not fair.

mynameismud

mynameismud wrote: »

Link?

Do you really need a link to something announced in the budget and all over the papers and Internet for the last few weeks?

EazyD

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

And taxes have been reduced in the budget to compensate, leaving many people actually better off.

My mother and father, both self employed have been paying more in tax now than they ever have. In fact I couldn't count on both hands the number of people in an identical position. The reduction was a last minute sweetener, nothing more.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

And taxes have been reduced in the budget to compensate, leaving many people actually better off.

Are they really better off? Did they scrap the universal social charge?

EazyD

EazyD wrote: »

My mother and father, both self employed have been paying more in tax now than they ever have. In fact I couldn't count on both hands the number of people in an identical position. The reduction was a last minute sweetener, nothing more.

I have no problem admitting that income taxes, Capitol gain taxes and dirt are crazy high in this country however I'm not claiming they are not. What I said is that things haven't really changed for a lot of people with the introduction of the water charge and a slight reduction in income taxes to compensate.

I workd out The budget cuts will be worth about 400 euro to me while the water charge will be around 180 euro.

Mrs Garth Brooks

EazyD wrote: »

My mother and father, both self employed have been paying more in tax now than they ever have. In fact I couldn't count on both hands the number of people in an identical position. The reduction was a last minute sweetener, nothing more.

And they'll only increase those taxes again next year, once they get the water charges rolling and people paying up.

BoJack Horseman

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Are they really better off? Did they scrap the universal social charge?

No, it was just modified along with PAYE bands.

Someone on the average salary benefits by €350-400 per year.

Caliden

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

And taxes have been reduced in the budget to compensate, leaving many people actually better off.

Well if we have to pay for water, we're about the same.

So no, we're not better off whatsoever.

The only difference is that water costs could go up whenever Irish Water feel like it so they don't need to wait for a yearly budget to change their prices.

gladrags

geeksauce wrote: »

Not everybody pays these taxes though, so that is what is not fair.

I agree.

We need to start at the top,and tax all the tax exiles, who have evaded tax to the tone of billions for decades.

The brown envelope tax system.


http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/Taxing+Ireland%27s+exiles/id/89127228-1885-06a9-2ee0-7eb157329645

Valetta

Rosa Hot Lumberman wrote: »

I have no problem admitting that income taxes, Capitol gain taxes and dirt are crazy high in this country however I'm not claiming they are not. What I said is that things haven't really changed for a lot of people with the introduction of the water charge and a slight reduction in income taxes to compensate.

I workd out The budget cuts will be worth about 400 euro to me while the weather charge will be around 180 euro.

F*ck me.... nobody told me about that. :eek::eek:

Little CuChulainn

Valetta wrote: »

F*ck me.... nobody told me about that. :eek::eek:

You think that nice summer came for free?

BoJack Horseman

Caliden wrote: »

Well if we have to pay for water, we're about the same.

So no, we're not better off whatsoever.

You tell us.
We'd love to know.

Here is a budget calculator from PWC
http://download.pwc.com/ie/budget-2015/index.html

And here is the IW charge page:
http://www.water.ie/customer-applications/charges/

Let us know the result