***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

ROCKMAN

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Heres my take at this point on the IW situation:

In theory i CAN afford to pay for water. It would be a massive struggle and my already frugal life style will get even more so and would probably involve an all ready glowing credit card but I could do it. Perhaps my 4 days camping on Achill which constitutes a family holiday wold have to go but I could do this....
But i wont because , perhaps as a result of being the youngest of a large family I have this over whelming sense of fair play. I have a compulsion to see justice done, i HATE the thought of people simply getting away with things. I have always been prepared to suffer just to satisfy this compulsion.
I honestly would prefer to see the entire IW AND political system collapse and to see things get worse here financially just to see fair play.
Denis O'Brien, Hubert Kearns, John Tierney, Coleman Shanley, the 6 figure salaries, the expenses, the back handers, the cronyism, it drives me nuts, possibly from a childish level (Youngest of a large family again!!)
I would see the country go to rat **** for a spell just to see an end to this bolloxx

I totally understand where you are coming from . Maybe it's time to burn and turn (not literally ),Let it all collapse on itself and maybe from the ashes something good could be allowed to develop and grow if you know what I mean

gladrags

VinLieger wrote: »

The government had nothing to do with that letter getting released when it did, take off your tinfoil hat

Correct.

The four conditions set out in the pre-bailout.

A cynical threat by Trechet to cut funds.The financial turmoil of the time,Lehman etc,made Trechets task much easier,given the panic within the markets.

1) The Irish government shall send a request for financial support to the Eurogroup;

2) The request shall include the commitment to undertake decisive actions in the areas of fiscal consolidation, structural reforms and financial sector restructuring, in agreement with the European Commission, the International Monetary Fund and the ECB;

3) The plan for the restructuring of the Irish financial sector shall include the provision of the necessary capital to those Irish banks needing it and will be funded by the financial resources provided at the European lnd international level to the Irish government as well as by financial means currently available to the lrish government, including existing cash reserves of the Irish government;

4) The repayment of the funds provided in the form of ELA shall be fully guaranteed by the Irish government, which would ensure the payment of immediate compensation to the Central Bank of Ireland in the event of missed payments on the side of the recipient institution."

It is what they did after,and since then,that matters.

_Kaiser_

knarkypants wrote: »

Everyone will get €100 cash just to sign up for the water charges. The term "brown envelope" springs to mind. :pac:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/100-cash-for-everybody-in-plan-to-quell-water-anger-30722769.html

Interestingly, from the same link...

The Coalition is also looking at strengthening the penalties against those who don’t pay their water bill, to include court orders allowing:

* A charge against the house;

* Enforced payment from earnings;

* Credit rating damage.

Y'know, for a "utility", it seems an awful lot like a tax.

Barely There

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I would see the country go to rat **** for a spell just to see an end to this bolloxx

So basically you're in a spot of financial difficulty, are jealous of those who have got more than you and would like to drag everyone down to your level so you'll feel better about yourself?

Daith

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Y'know, for a "utility", it seems an awful lot like a tax.

Water conservation....right?

Ghost Buster

Barely There wrote: »

So basically you're in a spot of financial difficulty, are jealous of those who have got more than you and would like to drag everyone down to your level so you'll feel better about yourself?

No. But you know that and are simply trying to provoke a reaction. Sad post, very very sad.

moxin

IW is a complete failure so they are now trying to bribe and blackmail everyone to sign up.

Phoebas

ROCKMAN wrote: »

I totally understand where you are coming from . Maybe it's time to burn and turn (not literally ),Let it all collapse on itself and maybe from the ashes something good could be allowed to develop and grow if you know what I mean

The 'let's destroy it and hope that magically something good will happen' strategy.

Worth a try I suppose. It didn't work when we tried something like that a few years ago with the economy, but definitely worth another go.

Creative Juices

I support the water protests and I attended the Galway protest last weekend. I also commented that there was a very strong Sinn Fein presence at the Galway protest and I was told I was trying to tar everyone with their brush. However I do think that SF could ruin the protests for everyone. I strong believe that the protests should be non political i.e. no political posters at all and the protest speakers should be neutral. There was a lot of anti-FF, anti-FG and anti-Labour rhetoric at the Galway protest.

I am not sure who organised the protests in Dublin yesterday but I know one thing the public fear more than anything and that's anarchy. If there is a sniff that these protests are getting out of hand, the normal decent people will simply stop coming.

listermint

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Interestingly, from the same link...



Y'know, for a "utility", it seems an awful lot like a tax.

That has to be sh*t sturring from the independent. The governement cant be that stupid..... can they

Ghost Buster

Phoebas wrote: »

The 'let's destroy it and hope that magically something good will happen' strategy.

Worth a try I suppose. It didn't work when we tried something like that a few years ago with the economy, but definitely worth another go.

Im thinking more of a final collapse of our totally unfit for purpose governing system and an end to my parents (and Bob Geldofs!) era where Priests, Politicians and the upper end dwellers of the unique Irish class system were revered and the implementation of a new one. There may be a period of adjustment but if its for the greater good then im just fine with that.

Daith

listermint wrote: »

That has to be sh*t sturring from the independent. The governement cant be that stupid..... can they

Political interference was something that Irish Water identified as an issue. They got that one right.

moxin

Creative Juices wrote: »

I support the water protests and I attended the Galway protest last weekend. I also commented that there was a very strong Sinn Fein presence at the Galway protest and I was told I was trying to tar everyone with their brush. However I do think that SF could ruin the protests for everyone. I strong believe that the protests should be non political i.e. no political posters at all and the protest speakers should be neutral. There was a lot of anti-FF, anti-FG and anti-Labour rhetoric at the Galway protest.

*shocker*, people angry at parties(FG\Lab\FF) that are pro-water charges. The organisers of the protests are everyone else including SF.

Who do you think is going to speak for you on water charges? FG?!..LOL

_Kaiser_

listermint wrote: »

That has to be sh*t sturring from the independent. The governement cant be that stupid..... can they

I wouldn't put it past them - "you will pay your bills" remember.

VinLieger

Daith wrote: »

Because it was leaked. Hence the actual FOI requests being ignored. Unless you want to explain the "somehow" in more detail?

Yeah the FOI was directed at the ECB, previously it was indicated the Government were responsible for it being released to take the attention of IW which is garbage as they didn't have the letter and it was all up to the ECB

Knight who says Meh

Barely There wrote: »

So basically you're in a spot of financial difficulty, are jealous of those who have got more than you and would like to drag everyone down to your level so you'll feel better about yourself?

Thats a unique and not at all disturbing take on what a fair, transparent and democratic society should be. I applaud you crazy guy!!!

gladrags

Creative Juices wrote: »

I support the water protests and I attended the Galway protest last weekend. I also commented that there was a very strong Sinn Fein presence at the Galway protest and I was told I was trying to tar everyone with their brush. However I do think that SF could ruin the protests for everyone. I strong believe that the protests should be non political i.e. no political posters at all and the protest speakers should be neutral. There was a lot of anti-FF, anti-FG and anti-Labour rhetoric at the Galway protest.

I am not sure who organised the protests in Dublin yesterday but I know one thing the public fear more than anything and that's anarchy. If there is a sniff that these protests are getting out of hand, the normal decent people will simply stop coming.

If you remove the supposed anarchy,which is an exaggeration,you still get a very sizeable amount of people.

You don't know the public mindset,and what they desire "more than anything else".

There have been many protests,all of which have been civil.

You know this.

Streetwalker

ROCKMAN wrote: »

I totally understand where you are coming from . Maybe it's time to burn and turn (not literally ),Let it all collapse on itself and maybe from the ashes something good could be allowed to develop and grow if you know what I mean

We had this opportunity in 2008 to rebuild from scratch reform everything from our welfare state or our overpaid civil servants and everything in between. What we have got is more of the same with no reform in politics in any way shape or form. We have another bubble in the making now in the tech sector and a very worrying upward only increase in rents as well as house prices which is being championed as a sign of recovery by the media.

BoJack Horseman

gladrags wrote: »

There have been many protests,all of which have been civil.

You know this.

That guys post mentioned nothing about civility.
Rather hijacking by political extremists.

A communist can be as polite as the next man.
Their politics remains just as bogus though.

ROCKMAN

Streetwalker wrote: »

We had this opportunity in 2008 to rebuild from scratch reform everything from our welfare state or our overpaid civil servants and everything in between. What we have got is more of the same with no reform in politics in any way shape or form. We have another bubble in the making now in the tech sector and a very worrying upward only increase in rents as well as house prices which is being championed as a sign of recovery by the media.

Maybe its for another thread but you have a very serious and good point there.

as for 2008 a great opportunity missed ,sad to said but was down to us the general public,we got hoodwinked again by fast talking ,sweet offering Politicians

BoJack Horseman

Streetwalker wrote: »

We had this opportunity in 2008 to rebuild from scratch reform everything from our welfare state or our overpaid civil servants and everything in between.

How many parties on the left were promising to slash welfare & PS pay?

no reform in politics in any way shape or form.

Since 2011

- reduce judicial pay
- reduced the number of TDs (from 2015)
- reduced the number of councillors by appr 750
- reduced TD pay
- New court of appeal.
- reformed rules on TD pension drawdown.
- increase the power & scope of oireachtas inquiries (the people said no)
- tried to end the Senate (the people said said no)
- Allow SSM (2015)
- Creation of children's courts (2015)

We have another bubble in the making now in the tech sector

Pay rises after years of redundancy & pay cuts!
The horror!

very worrying upward only increase in rents as well as house prices which is being

The reality of a population rising & a demographic bulge of people aged between 28-35.....

gladrags

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

That guys post mentioned nothing about civility.
Rather hijacking by political extremists.

A communist can be as polite as the next man.
Their politics remains just as bogus though.

Anarchy was the word.

And it appears that the anarchy is eminating from the establishment.

Judging by the polls,and reaction of people.

Ghost Buster

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Maybe its for another thread but you have a very serious and good point there.

as for 2008 a great opportunity missed ,sad to said but was down to us the general public,we got hoodwinked again but fast talking ,sweet offering Politicians

Maybe (fingers crossed) this time will be a case of 'fore warned is fore armed'. Nobody knew what the **** was happening last time, we staggered about a bit and then Enda, the great white/ginger hope came forth promising reform.
When this mess reaches its conclusion the public are better prepared and sick to the teeth of what has gone on....fingers crossed now!!

gladrags

gladrags wrote: »

If you remove the supposed anarchy,which is an exaggeration,you still get a very sizeable amount of people.

You don't know the public mindset,and what they desire "more than anything else".

There have been many protests,all of which have been civil.

You know this.

I agree with Gladrags. I am very anti water charges and this whole fiasco of a set up. I dont want to pay and will keep marching. But I hate the aggression I saw on the news last night. It undermines the whole process and its something I wouldn't want to be assocciated with.

Keep it civil. The old age pensioners didn't resort to slurs and fighting and they got a complete U turn on their Medical cards a few years ago. Mass mob violence will ruin this whole anti water charge process - it will be an "own goal" as people wont want to be associated with it.

Last week a lot of commenters were saying "ah yeah the usual jobless scumbags" protesting - they protest at everything. What gave it more credibility and kudos was the fact it wasn't the usual scumbags - its was people in full time work who are just trying to get the message across that this is unfair, unjust and we cant pay any more money.

Streetwalker

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

How many parties on the left were promising to slash welfare & PS pay?


Since 2011

- reduce judicial pay
- reduced the number of TDs (from 2015)
- reduced the number of councillors by appr 750
- reduced TD pay
- New court of appeal.
- reformed rules on TD pension drawdown.
- increase the power & scope of oireachtas inquiries (the people said no)
- tried to end the Senate (the people said said no)
- Allow SSM (2015)
- Creation of children's courts (2015)


Pay rises after years of redundancy & pay cuts!
The horror!



The reality of a population rising & a demographic bulge of people aged between 28-35.....

Way to miss all my points.

BoJack Horseman

gladrags wrote: »

Anarchy was the word.

OK.

Eirigi
Fis Nua
Irish Communist Party
DDI
National Independent Party.
Socialist Party /AAA

All getting very noisy, with the likes of Eirigi, quite violent.

Rationality & sensibility isn't the byword of the above.

BoJack Horseman

Streetwalker wrote: »

Way to miss all my points.

If your going to make points, start with accuracy.

Creative Juices

gladrags wrote: »

If you remove the supposed anarchy,which is an exaggeration,you still get a very sizeable amount of people.

You don't know the public mindset,and what they desire "more than anything else".

There have been many protests,all of which have been civil.

You know this.

You're not getting it, if there is even a sniff of anarchy (e.g. fighting with Gardaí) or if people think they are walking behind a Sinn Fein banner, they will abandon the protests which would be a disaster.

listermint

Creative Juices wrote: »

I support the water protests and I attended the Galway protest last weekend. I also commented that there was a very strong Sinn Fein presence at the Galway protest and I was told I was trying to tar everyone with their brush. However I do think that SF could ruin the protests for everyone. I strong believe that the protests should be non political i.e. no political posters at all and the protest speakers should be neutral. There was a lot of anti-FF, anti-FG and anti-Labour rhetoric at the Galway protest.

I am not sure who organised the protests in Dublin yesterday but I know one thing the public fear more than anything and that's anarchy. If there is a sniff that these protests are getting out of hand, the normal decent people will simply stop coming.

Ive been to all the protests, And yes you are tarring everyone with the same brush. There was nothing put peaceful and actually quite jovial nature at both the 100,000 protest and the subsequent 150,000. And stick that SF nonsense in the bucket will you. Because they protests have not and are not organised by SF they are and continue to be organised by communities and for the most part people that have never been community activists in their lifetimes.


So explain to me this, Where in the hell is this Anarchy going to come from when both previous marches have had nothing of the sort. And you are comparing a group who have nothing to do with the actual nationwide marches and marched to some Garda Station in Dublin.

Try Again will you because your joining of the dots isnt quite spot on.


:rolleyes:

keith16

ibtl