***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Satriale

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't want to confuse people who only get their information from reports of newspaper reports and from regurgitated half truths on the internet. But the real sources are out there. Like the CER.

http://www.cer.ie/document-detail/CER-Water-Charges-Plan-Consultation/979

http://www.cer.ie/docs/000979/CER14452%20WCP%20Domestic%20Response%20and%20Decision%20Paper.pdf

The CER had only one goal in mind with Irish water, to raise the price sufficiently that the company will look juicy for privatisation/semi privatisation just like they did with the ESB.
We had the cheapest electricity in Europe now almost the most expensive, didnt we cover this already?
After a few short months we already have some of the most expensive water on the continent, god knows what it would have been like if IW hadnt fallen at the first hurdle.

Little CuChulainn

lorenzo87 wrote: »

I won't pay. And anyone that does is a muppet.
Out basic living right is some bloody water (which is already paid for apparently). I would sooner leave Ireland than pay for water, because this country is now a complete KIP.

You're free to go out in the rain, raise your head and open your mouth. But if you want it cleaned, treated and piped to your tap then it costs money.

Wurly

emo72 wrote: »

Read it already. Good article. Why so much hassle for the government for such little gain?

It's like the government are being bullied into introducing this.

Exactly! Suddenly the claim that the IMF are owned by rich bureaucrats doesn't seem so outlandish, does it?!

dxhound2005

Satriale wrote: »

The CER had only one goal in mind with Irish water, to raise the price sufficiently that the company will look juicy for privatisation/semi privatisation just like they did with the ESB.
We had the cheapest electricity in Europe now almost the most expensive, didnt we cover this already?
After a few short months we already have some of the most expensive water on the continent, god knows what it would have been like if IW hadnt fallen at the first hurdle.

I think it was you who raised that red herring about electricity prices before. I went to the trouble of doing a little research online to debunk your argument. Read back in the thread if you are interested, or if it wasn't you.

Whoever it was, was jumping up and down about a 70% or whatever rise in the charge to do with renewables. Using that as a scare tactic, and blithely ignoring that the money amount involved was 50 cents a week or less.

lorenzo87

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You're free to go out in the rain, raise your head and open your mouth. But if you want it cleaned, treated and piped to your tap then it costs money.

And the tooth fairy was paying for the cleansing, treatment and piping of water until now?

emo72

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Pick a country which will give you "free" water.

Nothing is free. We already pay. What it's coming down to now is quality of life. For a hell of a lot of people there will be no money left for a family holiday, or some of the nice things in life. Like food or a day off work, if you are lucky enough to be one of the working poor.

If paying water charges again is no issue for you, then well done, life has been very good to you.

dxhound2005

emo72 wrote: »

Nothing is free. We already pay. What it's coming down to now is quality of life. For a hell of a lot of people there will be no money left for a family holiday, or some of the nice things in life. Like food or a day of work, of you are lucky enough to be one of the working poor.

If paying water charges again is no issue for you, then well done, life has been very good to you.

But there will be lots of money for people to continue their alcohol, tobacco and gambling habits. And a million households must have pay TV when there is free TV. And if Garth Brooks comes back 400,000 households will find the money to have a weekend in Dublin. And if Donegal are in the All Ireland final next year they could fill Croke Park twice over.

lorenzo87

It is beyond belief the amount of people in favour or justifying this charge to be honest.
Clearly a bunch of lick-arses that have an easy life and have no problem paying.
I know a man that feels suicidal over these charges, he can't afford the mortgage, and my family are trying to help his family through a tough spell. This is not an isolated case, there are thousands and thousands of families that are at breaking point, and it is easy for the clowns to justify this charge when it does not affect their life.

Wurly

dxhound2005 wrote: »

But there will be lots of money for people to continue their alcohol, tobacco and gambling habits. And a million households must have pay TV when there is free TV. And if Garth Brooks comes back 400,000 households will find the money to have a weekend in Dublin. And if Donegal are in the All Ireland final next year they could fill Croke Park twice over.

So?

Who the fcuk gives some rich arsehole the right to tell me how to spend my money?

Satriale

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I think it was you who raised that red herring about electricity prices before. I went to the trouble of doing a little research online to debunk your argument. Read back in the thread if you are interested, or if it wasn't you.

Whoever it was, was jumping up and down about a 70% or whatever rise in the charge to do with renewables. Using that as a scare tactic, and blithely ignoring that the money amount involved was 50 cents a week or less.

You didnt debunk it though.

I dont think your second paragraph was me, but now that you mention it the CER will probably put some extra charge(plus vat!) on the water charge to pay for using renewable sources of water.

dxhound2005

lorenzo87 wrote: »

It is beyond belief the amount of people in favour or justifying this charge to be honest.
Clearly a bunch of lick-arses that have an easy life and have no problem paying.
I know a man that feels suicidal over these charges, he can't afford the mortgage, and my family are trying to help his family through a tough spell. This is not an isolated case, there are thousands and thousands of families that are at breaking point, and it is easy for the clowns to justify this charge when it does not affect their life.

As I have said before, I have lost much much more as a worker by my wages being cut and being on a pay freeze for over 6 years, than the water is ever going to cost me. As a worker I want to see non-workers contributing a bit to the services they get. Workers have to pay for everybody.

Banjo String

lorenzo87 wrote: »

It is beyond belief the amount of people in favour or justifying this charge to be honest.
Clearly a bunch of lick-arses that have an easy life and have no problem paying.
I know a man that feels suicidal over these charges, he can't afford the mortgage, and my family are trying to help his family through a tough spell. This is not an isolated case, there are thousands and thousands of families that are at breaking point, and it is easy for the clowns to justify this charge when it does not affect their life.

There are also party hacks, (those who will defend every last government imposed charge or levy, no matter what)

And some people with a snout in the trough. Those that rely on others tax contributions in order to satisfy their own salary scale.

Satriale

emo72 wrote: »

If paying water charges again is no issue for you, then well done, life has been very good to you.

Out of everyone on this thread i can nearly guarantee you DX wont be paying for water! He, quite sensibly, flushes the toilet using water from the sink, as i do myself (i draw hot water to a bucket in the bath!) and he knows the value of not wasting things.

The difference between us is that i pay for my own water, and we will pay for his "free" water.

dxhound2005

Wurly wrote: »

So?

Who the fcuk gives some rich arsehole the right to tell me how to spend my money?

It is clear that this is a campaign of won't pay, not can't pay. The won't pay for anything brigade include rich people. At least they cannot escape water charges and property tax for their big houses.

Little CuChulainn

lorenzo87 wrote: »

And the tooth fairy was paying for the cleansing, treatment and piping of water until now?

lorenzo87 wrote: »

It is beyond belief the amount of people in favour or justifying this charge to be honest.
Clearly a bunch of lick-arses that have an easy life and have no problem paying.
I know a man that feels suicidal over these charges, he can't afford the mortgage, and my family are trying to help his family through a tough spell. This is not an isolated case, there are thousands and thousands of families that are at breaking point, and it is easy for the clowns to justify this charge when it does not affect their life.

The exchequer was paying for the cost up until now. The money came from the pockets of people who worked. Now it is being changed so that the people who work don't pay for everyone, the person who consumes pays for what they consume. Much more equitable.

And tell your suicidal friend to get in touch with his bank to arrange a payment structure he can afford. There are all sorts of ways he can reduce his financial burden until he is back on his feet, even if it's only switch to interest only payments for a few months. MABS can also help him out.

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

There are also party hacks, (those who will defend every last government imposed charge or levy, no matter what)

And some people with a snout in the trough. Those that rely on others tax contributions in order to satisfy their own salary scale.

Your are the new Fr Ned.

lorenzo87

lorenzo87 wrote: »

It is beyond belief the amount of people in favour or justifying this charge to be honest.
Clearly a bunch of lick-arses that have an easy life and have no problem paying.
I know a man that feels suicidal over these charges, he can't afford the mortgage, and my family are trying to help his family through a tough spell. This is not an isolated case, there are thousands and thousands of families that are at breaking point, and it is easy for the clowns to justify this charge when it does not affect their life.

"Don't judge me till you walk a mile in my shoes". NONE of us knows the circumstances of each other. All I know is that I think it fair that EVERYONE pays for what they use.

dxhound2005

Satriale wrote: »

Out of everyone on this thread i can nearly guarantee you DX wont be paying for water! He, quite sensibly, flushes the toilet using water from the sink, as i do myself (i draw hot water to a bucket in the bath!) and he knows the value of not wasting things.

The difference between us is that i pay for my own water, and we will pay for his "free" water.

Ah, but you forgot. If people conserve water then IW will put up the price to make up for the lost revenue. I read that right here, so it must be true.

oceanman

lorenzo87 wrote: »

And the tooth fairy was paying for the cleansing, treatment and piping of water until now?

was that not us the taxpayers???

Banjo String

Back in 2009 the Fine Gael Party, in a policy document entitled NewERA, said it would bring all of Ireland's water assets under the ownership of one State company, Irish Water. Its document goes into considerable detail as to how Irish Water would be a super-lean and efficient operation in terms of organising the Irish water supply. Yesterday, we saw and read that the Fine Gael Deputies are now very angry with the utility they conceived of and how it has turned out, and I understand the Labour party had a meeting with Irish Water two weeks ago. Meanwhile, I understand the Joint Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht has written twice - or Deputy Cowen certainly has - asking to bring Irish Water before that committee, but that has not happened.

The basic point I want to put to the Tánaiste is this. I asked the Taoiseach yesterday in the House what he believed the net revenue estimate would be as a result of the imposition of water charges for domestic users - what he felt the Government would get in net revenue. He could not answer me. We have done our own calculations and we looked at responses to parliamentary questions which have come back from the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, who estimated there would be gross revenue of €300 million from domestic charges. Of course, that does not factor in the €65 million for the household benefits package or the €40 million for the tax credit, and I presume more will have to be done for the 200,000 people who are not covered by either the benefits package or the tax exemption. Therefore, even at 100% compliance, we are now looking at a net revenue figure of something like €175 million. If there is anything less than full compliance, we are looking at less than €150 million. Yet the Government has spent €650 million on the start-up costs of Irish Water. It has caused huge social upheaval, it is a gold-plated bureaucracy that is being paid for at an extraordinary level, which is really making people angry, and it has caused mayhem across local authorities, taking engineers out of every local authority in the country and swapping staff, with pension deals done to get people into Irish Water. One would have to stand back from it all and ask a very basic question. All of that for a net revenue of maybe €150 million plus

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2014-10-16a.194


tick tock....

Satriale

Deleted User wrote: »

"Don't judge me till you walk a mile in my shoes". NONE of us knows the circumstances of each other. All I know is that I think it fair that EVERYONE pays for what they use.

But you wont be paying, you will be claiming "free" water that somebody else will be paying for!!

dxhound2005

oceanman wrote: »

was that not us the taxpayers???

Partly. But mostly financed from borrowing.

Satriale

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Ah, but you forgot. If people conserve water then IW will put up the price to make up for the lost revenue. I read that right here, so it must be true.

If this is true it will be costing the other customers more to provide you with your "free" allowance!

Doesnt seem fair does it, people should just pay their way if they can!

Tony EH

dxhound2005 wrote: »

As I have said before, I have lost much much more as a worker by my wages being cut and being on a pay freeze for over 6 years, than the water is ever going to cost me. As a worker I want to see non-workers contributing a bit to the services they get. Workers have to pay for everybody.

So, it's simply pettiness on your behalf.

Got ya so.

Wurly

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That is entirely your opinion. Of what is an opinion piece, not reportage. I'm sure Gene had a great time polishing his prose to condemn all and sundry as is the wont of "journalists".

Other people may think it is very bad.

Yes, dxhound. That is my opinion. Others may have a differing opinion which is their right. I fail to see your point?

Forgive me, but my interest lies in helping others to see the blatant truth about Irish Water. I am keen to see both myself and yourself not being made fools of. My intention is good which is more that can be said for our government.

Satriale

Satriale wrote: »

But you wont be paying, you will be claiming "free" water that somebody else will be paying for!!

WOW. Thanks for that. Might celebrate by having a bath tonight, seeing as you're paying for it! Thanks.

Satriale

Banjo String wrote: »

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2014-10-16a.194


tick tock....

kildare street wrote:

Yet the Government has spent €650 million on the start-up costs of Irish Water. It has caused huge social upheaval, it is a gold-plated bureaucracy that is being paid for at an extraordinary level, which is really making people angry, and it has caused mayhem across local authorities

Over the last few weeks IW has started to remind me of the evoting machine scandal but it kind of puts that in the shade.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

As I have said before, I have lost much much more as a worker by my wages being cut and being on a pay freeze for over 6 years, than the water is ever going to cost me. As a worker I want to see non-workers contributing a bit to the services they get . Workers have to pay for everybody.

That's a roundabout way of saying you want social welfare/those on state assistance payments cut tbh.

dxhound2005

Satriale wrote: »

If this is true it will be costing the other customers more to provide you with your "free" allowance!

Doesnt seem fair does it, people should just pay their way if they can!

I 100% agree. People with meters should pay what is on the meter. People without meters should pay a charge related to their property tax. That is the system in England where less than 50% are metered.

Satriale

Deleted User wrote: »

WOW. Thanks for that. Might celebrate by having a bath tonight, seeing as you're paying for it! Thanks.

My pleasure. Take two.