***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Iwasfrozen

Hijpo wrote: »

You have a rubbish concept of logic and thats a worse attempt to draw focus away from spending on priorities to an argument about teachers :rolleyes: pointless.

I believe people who can well afford to surround themselves with luxury should not be assisted further with more expenses and allowances while dictating that the country and economy are f***ed so a certain class will have to cough up a few more bob from their disposable income.

Well if you have a problem with drivers being paid for weeks they don't work I would assume you would feel the same about teachers?

Iwasfrozen

Banjo String wrote: »

I think the logic was lost on you tbh.

Do you think it's right a ministerial driver gets 55k for working 6 months of the year? (26 weeks tbp)

Nice work if one can get it.

No. That's too much money, they should work every week and they should be civilian drivers rather than gardai.

The contract should be given to a private company and 35-40k seems fair, imo.

Hijpo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well if you have a problem with drivers being paid for weeks they don't work I would assume you would feel the same about teachers?

Are you saying teachers have nothing to do regarding their jobs during holidays?
Interesting.

Just keep in mind that ministers have 2 drivers that work two weeks a month. Not two teachers teaching two weeks a month.
For arguments sake, one teacher getting 30k per annum to do a job or two drivers getting 30k each to do the same job week on week off.

Its also not limited to gardai, they can appoint their cronies like a Waterford TD did.

dxhound2005

Am I in the right thread? The one about water charges.

Anyway as we are off topic, I might as well join in. Every opposition politician, regardless of party and through all time suddenly becomes a communist at budget time. And every media priest and assorted commentators. Everybody has to be equal, if a low paid person or someone not working only gains €100 from the budget, then that is all any person should get. Or if the Taoiseach gets €700 then everyone in the country should get the same.

In the real world though this would never catch on. It was always percentage increases that unions negotiated when there was such a thing as pay rises. And if pay rises ever happen again you can be sure they won't settle for €100 for the guy on €20K and the same €100 for the guy on €60K.

And having entirely missed the point that workers have lost from wages many many multiples of what they will pay for water, the concentration here is again on what politicians are gaining. Ignoring the fact that our captains of industry in the private sector wouldn't get out of bed for what Kenny gets, never mind what Obama gets.

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Am I in the right thread? The one about water charges.

Anyway as we are off topic, I might as well join in. Every opposition politician, regardless of party and through all time suddenly becomes a communist at budget time. And every media priest and assorted commentators. Everybody has to be equal, if a low paid person or someone not working only gains €100 from the budget, then that is all any person should get. Or if the Taoiseach gets €700 then everyone in the country should get the same.

In the real world though this would never catch on. It was always percentage increases that unions negotiated when there was such a thing as pay rises. And if pay rises ever happen again you can be sure they won't settle for €100 for the guy on €20K and the same €100 for the guy on €60K.

And having entirely missed the point that workers have lost from wages many many multiples of what they will pay for water, the concentration here is again on what politicians are gaining. Ignoring the fact that our captains of industry in the private sector wouldn't get out of bed for what Kenny gets, never mind what Obama gets.

Far from the point, politicians are being used as examples. You cannot dictate that the country is struggling while insisting that people must pay more for the same and then prop yourself up by another 700 euro when you can easily afford what you need even without aid through benefits and allowances.

And just to add, a private company makes a profit on its success by the decisions made by a director.
A politician makes their profit from taking money from peoples income and disposable income. Entirely different means of being successful.

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

Far from the point, politicians are being used as examples. You cannot dictate that the country is struggling while insisting that people must pay more for the same and then prop yourself up by another 700 euro when you can easily afford what you need even without aid through benefits and allowances.

Should the budget always make sure that everyone gets exactly the same flat amount from income tax and USC reductions?

Would it also be fair that when they were increased that everyone should have paid the same flat amount extra?

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Should the budget always make sure that everyone gets exactly the same flat amount from income tax and USC reductions?

Would it also be fair that when they were increased that everyone should have paid the same flat amount extra?

That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that if the country is broke and a deficit needs to be closed then why would you give the people that are already able to spend in this climate an extra 700, when the middle to low incomes who make up a bigger percentage of the population only get 100 that will be taken back through a recently imposed charge?

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that if the country is broke and a deficit needs to be closed then why would you give the people that are already able to spend in this climate an extra 700 to spend, when the middle to low incomes who make up a bigger percentage of the population only get 100 that will be taken back through a recently imposed charge?

You have to define middle to low. There are plenty on the other thread here who say €105K p.a. is middle. And apparently newly qualified consultants are leaving in droves because €95K starting salary is not enough.

Hijpo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You have to define middle to low. There are plenty on the other thread here who say €105K p.a. is middle. And apparently newly qualified consultants are leaving in droves because €95K starting salary is not enough.

I might define middle as paying all the taxes and charges applied to working but be just over the threshold to avail of a lot of aid provides by social welfare.

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

I might define middle as paying all the taxes and charges applied to working but be just over the threshold to avail of a lot of aid provides by social welfare.

You might be way off the mark. No employer is going to factor in the family circumstance of each of his/her workers. So if he pays €50K to two workers doing the same job, the one who is single and owns his own home mortgage free will be better off than the one who has 4 children and a €1000 a month mortgage. There is FIS but I have no idea what other SW aid you could be thinking of.

Iwasfrozen

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You have to define middle to low. There are plenty on the other thread here who say €105K p.a. is middle. And apparently newly qualified consultants are leaving in droves because €95K starting salary is not enough.

That's 105k per couple. 52.5k really isn't that much. More than most of course but firmly in the middle category.

FREETV

People, people, getting back on topic, if you do a quick Google search and put in people against water charges you can see directly the massive defence building up in Ireland against the corrupt bullies in power.

They are supposed to be elected to represent us all and not Corporations or the IMF and EU.

Iwasfrozen

FREETV wrote: »

People, people, getting back on topic, if you do a quick Google search and put in people against water charges you can see directly the massive defence building up in Ireland against the corrupt bullies in power.

They are supposed to be elected to represent us all and not Corporations or the IMF and EU.

I should hope so. Google wouldn't be doing it's job very well if it returned people for water charges would it?

FREETV

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I should hope so. Google wouldn't be doing it's job very well if it returned people for water charges would it?

I was making the point that not everybody is brainwashed by a bull**** Budget where Enda and company make more money and the various news and current affairs programmes.
Facebook has lots of related protest pages too of which I have no affiliation.

Time to revolt against tyranny Irish people!

FREETV

ardle1 wrote: »

I think(and I would be very observant)that there is going to be trouble on the streets of Ireland soon, and solely because of water charges!
This is certainly a step to far at a bad time in Ireland.

Did you see this news report from the Irish Mirror?

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/anonymous-delivers-menacing-video-message-4442276
We will soon make World news.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/boyd-barrett-government-shaking-in-their-boots-after-water-charge-protest-645120.html#.VD0KSkD7xad.facebook

Plates

FREETV wrote: »

I was making the point that not everybody is brainwashed by a bull**** Budget where Enda and company make more money and the various news and current affairs programmes.
Facebook has lots of related protest pages too of which I have no affiliation.

Time to revolt against tyranny Irish people!

Such a loss of perspective. The people who are being brainwashed are the ones listening to AAA, Sinn Fein and any others who seem to think that once water charges are abolished everything will be rosy in the garden again.

Revolt against tyranny! FFS, we're not in North Korea lads.

Larbre34

Of course overturning Irish Water won't make everything rosy in the garden but it will be a) a bloody good start and b) a reminder to those complacent folk in ivory towers of who holds real power.

We are not beyond ending political dynasty in this country and Fine Gael are starting to realise its a huge risk. The Fine Gael TD who suggested he might for a change be able to enjoy a peaceful pint in his local this Christmas without being harangued over a budget, was sorely mistaken.

hawkelady

Do any of the folks here who support/agree with Irish water also agree with the fact that landlords will be liable if their tenants refuse to pay ?

gladrags

Plates wrote: »

Such a loss of perspective. The people who are being brainwashed are the ones listening to AAA, Sinn Fein and any others who seem to think that once water charges are abolished everything will be rosy in the garden again.

"Others" in the case of above appears to be made up of OAP's, the "squeezed middle", according to the government.The FTB's,the overburdenef taxpayers.

The mentally and physically ill,the unemployed.

Perspective?

Banjo String

They're fighting amongst themselves now too.

Keep the pressure on....

Fine Gael TDs have warned Taoiseach Enda Kenny that the controversy over mounting customer complaints at Irish Water and its bonus culture threaten to turn it into another medical card fiasco.

During a stormy party meeting, backbenchers expressed their anger to Mr Kenny and compared Irish Water to the HSE. The dissent comes as the Government promised to give every household help paying water bills.

That follows an embarrassing Budget day blunder in which 200,000 families were omitted from two schemes to ease the pain of the new charges.

Officials were last night scrambling to come up with a fairer formula for reducing the burden of water charges.

But pressure is now intensifying on Irish Water executives. Labour Party TDs also complained to Tanaiste Joan Burton about Irish Water's handling of complaints.

Irish Water bosses are to be summoned to appear before a Fine Gael internal committee and the party is holding a meeting on the problems with the semi-state company.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-td-labels-irish-water-boss-gob-during-heated-party-meeting-30668382.html#comments

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/antiques-dealer-rubbishes-tds-10k-ring-account-30668316.html

hawkelady

hawkelady wrote: »

Do any of the folks here who support/agree with Irish water also agree with the fact that landlords will be liable if their tenants refuse to pay ?

If tenants refuse to pay, they'll be at the loss of their deposit and find themselves homeless.

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

If tenants refuse to pay, they'll be at the loss of their deposit and find themselves homeless.

Any source for this newly emerged legislation

iainBB

The short term tax relief "for some people" in this year’s budget is designed to ease our way into water charges, its one of the reasons why the property tax was allowed in (of course the other was the revenue involvement.)

This will mostly be removed next year or reduced once the tax is in place and people except it.

FREETV

We don't want help to pay for water you crooked tools in the Dail.
We don't want to pay for water and will not pay for it or allow for it to be charged!

Morons the lot of them.

Happyman42

So the dust of the budget is settling, help me get this straight:

You set up a quango to collect a charge that you say is needed to protect and conserve our water.
You say; the country needs this money to run it's infrastructure in a proper way going forward.
The people come onto the streets and tell you that, No, they will not pay or recognise that this quango is needed.
In response to the fear of losing popular support, you take the money from another pot (money you said we didn't have) and give it to the people to help them pay the new quango. The cost to the people remains the same but you hope you have bought back popular support.
You hope that nobody notices the shimmy and that you get your quango established and taking in revenue in the confusion.

Is that basically it?

Grandpa Hassan

Banjo String wrote: »

Any source for this newly emerged legislation

A lot of LLs will make registering and paying the charge a condition of the lease. Other utilities are simply the responsibility of the tenant....LL doesn't really care if the tenant doesn't pay....they just get cut off. Water is different...in my lease is a condition which if not met will result in eviction

hawkelady

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If tenants refuse to pay, they'll be at the loss of their deposit and find themselves homeless.

But the bills only come at quarterly intervals . Can you keep a deposit for a few months until you find out if it's paid or not .
Afaik non payment of a utility bill is not grounds for eviction .. So your two ideas don't really add up to a solution

Plates

gladrags wrote: »

"Others" in the case of above appears to be made up of OAP's, the "squeezed middle", according to the government.The FTB's,the overburdenef taxpayers.

The mentally and physically ill,the unemployed.

Perspective?

Indeed. So your hypothesis is that getting rid of the water charges will resolve the issues these groups have or that Paul Murphy and Joe Higgins have the policies that will solve them?

Ogham

If a tenant has registered and gets billed - then the landlord is not liable for any unpaid bill in the tenants name.

hawkelady

Ogham wrote: »

If a tenant has registered and gets billed - then the landlord is not liable for any unpaid bill in the tenants name.

But what if the tenant doesn't register ? Have Irish water really thought this through ? It sounds as if they are making the rules up as they go along tbh