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Womens attitudes to previous sexual encounters see mod note post #1

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    #152
    Buzz Killington the third
    Closed Accounts Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    username123 wrote: »
    The men clearly said much the same thing. Why are all your derogatory terms in relation to the woman?
    Don't try and turn this into a sexist argument because that's not what it is. I've already stated earlier in the thread:
    "The woman is the topic of discussion here, not the men involved. But if you want to talk about them, I know a lot of girls who wouldn't be happy to know their partner lined up with 4 other lads to have a go on someone."

    And frankly, I think how they behaved is disgusting. I don't know any guys who would do something like this.
    username123 wrote: »
    So what if it was planned or not? Im not following your objection here - is it ok if its a planned event?
    The point is how seedy it all is and how dirty and unhygienic it comes across. Planned parties like this would see couples engaging in activities, not a line of people queuing up for a bit of action on one person who is clearly being used and is seems is happy to be used. I'd feel the same the op under these circumstances.


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    #153
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sorry I would have included my reply to you in my last batch only you decided to edit my username out of the QUOTE and I did not see your reply to me straight away.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    You think group sex is right. Fair enough, others think it isn't and fair enough.

    It is not that I think it "right" OR "wrong". I am value neutral on it and technically in the "meh" camp with you to a point.

    My own subjective morality operates under an "innocent until proven guilty" mentality in other words.

    I get what you are saying - some people are subjectively against it and I am not. We are not disagreeing.

    All I am saying is that those that are not - appear entirely unable to explain the thinking behind their position. They just do not like it - because that is how it is. End of.

    I am not saying this makes my morality any better than anyone elses per se - but I will say it anyway - when I call something "bad" or "wrong" I am at least able to explain why I do.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Then we clearly inhabit a very different moral landscape if you think 12 year olds having penetrative sex is ok so long as "context" is in place. A 12 year old is a child, barely within physical puberty, never mind mental maturity.

    And yet neither I nor she were harmed in any way by the experience. Morality is contextual. Always. As you point out the context of 12 years olds is clearly a HELL of a lot more strigent and as such most sexual activity at that age - is likely not going to be a good thing.

    My only point is that merely citing the number "12" is not enough context - for me - to comment on it either way. My expectations are likely "this is not going to be good" but expectations are not facts and I always prefer to hold out for the facts.
    nc19 wrote: »
    Any woman that has sex with 5 men at once has no respect for herself.

    Why? Because you assert it to be so? Or because you can justify that assertion with any actual arguments?


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    #154
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Magaggie wrote: »
    Sex is a personal, individual thing - don't like the way there seems to be this consensus that we should all view it the same way.
    +1000 and that runs the range from celibate through to promiscuity. Too often the anything goes worldview supports one and not the other, as if the pendulum has overswung from pre sexual lib days.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #155
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Recondite49 wrote: »
    Surely though if your daughter was a porn actress or had multiple partners you'd realise that finger wagging would hardly help the situation? It's far better to help her to do it safely. You may not be happy about it but I wonder if you'd be as concerned if your son had a string of girlfriends?

    If my daughter was a porn star I'd be bringing her straight to detox to get her off drugs/alcohol.


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    #156
    Recondite49
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    Buzz Killington the third wrote: »
    Don't try and turn this into a sexist argument because that's not what it is. I've already stated earlier in the thread:
    "The woman is the topic of discussion here, not the men involved. But if you want to talk about them, I know a lot of girls who wouldn't be happy to know their partner lined up with 4 other lads to have a go on someone."

    And frankly, I think how they behaved is disgusting. I don't know any guys who would do something like this.


    The point is how seedy it all is and how dirty and unhygienic it comes across. Planned parties like this would see couples engaging in activities, not a line of people queuing up for a bit of action on one person who is clearly being used and is seems is happy to be used. I'd feel the same the op under these circumstances.

    I don't know Buzz about this not being a gender issue. There wouldn't be nearly as much stigma attached to a man with a string of multiple partners or who indulged in orgies, people would just shrug it off saying it's par for the course.


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    #157
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    lol at the overly PC crowd. If you love her, her past shouldn't matter. I don't care how many people my partner slept with before me, etc. Such BS.

    In a perfect PC world where nobody has insecurities and emotions don't come into play then those statements are true.

    But get a grip, a partner having 500 previous sexual partners is a lot for one person just to brush off. Does it make her a b1tch like the OP said? No. Does it make her a bad person? no of course not but its a lot to take.

    I can imagine whats going through the OP's mind; Every time he is at the bar looking around who here has his GF had sex with? Why such an abnormal amount? Was it a problem? Sex Addiction? Diseases?

    You can get over it if your partner has had a couple, a handful, a couple dozen or whatever but 500? c'mon! You can call the OP an insecure fool but it would have to be the world's most secure person to just brush off 500 sexual partners regardless of gender.

    Anyway, i think the rule of thumb is if can't handle the answer, don't ask...but i suspect 500 is a lot of anybody to take.


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    #158
    Recondite49
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    If my daughter was a porn star I'd be bringing her straight to detox to get her off drugs/alcohol.

    The issue you have here is that if you're dealing with another adult, then it's their choice to appear in porn flicks if they wish. Of course if that person is also addicted to harmful substance you just might be able to stage an intervention based on that but it's a separate issue, what are you going to do? You can't imprison them legally, you'd need to make your peace with it if something like that happened. What else can you do?


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    #159
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    This can't have been the first conversation about her past history and any history seems to be a problem for him .I would say this lady had enough of the OP and laid it on thick and heavy and got shot of him.

    There is no way she had as many and as varied and as frequent a variety of sexual encounters as the Op has outlined.

    Such insecurity is a pain and she is well rid of him .


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    #160
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    If my daughter was a porn star I'd be bringing her straight to detox to get her off drugs/alcohol.

    And if she wasnt on drugs or alcohol but was in fact a healthy educated young woman who chose to make pornographic films?


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    #161
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    Not sure whether to be impressed, jealous or horrified.

    500 is a big number regardless of gender.

    Are you sure she wasn't exaggerating? And is this just every guy she had some level of intimacy with or is it just people she had intercourse with?

    Those questions aren't really relevant though.

    I think this is a case in point where "numbers" should never really be revealed among partners, can of worms all the way. My fiancee and I have never discussed numbers. All we know is that neither of us were virgins when we met.


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    #162
    Recondite49
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    username123 wrote: »
    And if she wasnt on drugs or alcohol but was in fact a healthy educated young woman who chose to make pornographic films?

    I've always found it amusing the notion that all girls who do porn are fuelling a drug addiction. Certainly a lot of the escorts I interviewed while at University were simply trying to fund their studies - most of them drank in moderation but no drugs.

    Still, an over zealous parent might try to use it as a plausible excuse to try to have a wayward daughter forced into rehab but I don't think it work.

    I suppose my main fear about it all would be that I would never be able to go to an adult website again for fear of seeing my own darling girl!


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    #163
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Recondite49 wrote: »
    The issue you have here is that if you're dealing with another adult, then it's their choice to appear in porn flicks if they wish. Of course if that person is also addicted to harmful substance you just might be able to stage an intervention based on that but it's a separate issue, what are you going to do? You can't imprison them legally, you'd need to make your peace with it if something like that happened. What else can you do?

    Wow this tread as really derailed.

    If you are suggesting I would leave my 'drug addict, porn star daughter who has had over 500 sexual partners' to make her own decisions as an adult I'm afraid your wrong.


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    #164
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Recondite49 wrote: »
    I've always found it amusing the notion that all girls who do porn are fuelling a drug addiction. Certainly a lot of the escorts I interviewed while at University were simply trying to fund their studies - most of them drank in moderation but no drugs.

    Still, an over zealous parent might try to use it as a plausible excuse to try to have a wayward daughter forced into rehab but I don't think it work.

    I suppose my main fear about it all would be that I would never be able to go to an adult website again for fear of seeing my own darling girl!

    I take it you performed a drug test then to back up your opinion?


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    #165
    Recondite49
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Wow this tread as really derailed.

    If you are suggesting I would leave my 'drug addict, porn star daughter who has had over 500 sexual partners' to make her own decisions as an adult I'm afraid your wrong.

    My point is Jeff that you ultimately if your daughter chose that career and/or had multiple boyfriends and sexual encounters, there wouldn't really be anything you could do about it. Wagging the finger is only going to backfire - just as is the case here with the OP.


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    #166
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users Posts: 4,765 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Everybody is different, but for me the most worrying thing being this girl's partner, outside of health issues, is she does not seem satisfied with one partner for long.

    You might be number 501, but 502 would not, if the trend continues, be very far away.

    I would firmly believe that leopards very rarely change their spots, so it would only be a matter of time.

    That, for me, would be a thought that could affect being in a relationship with this girl.

    For a guy who has the same type of outlook on life I'm sure it would be fine, but that's not me and this would be my only issue here.


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    #167
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    If my daughter was a porn star I'd be bringing her straight to detox to get her off drugs/alcohol.
    Actually I knew an ex "Porn star", an American lass who worked in that game for a couple of years and her "number" was significantly lower than the OP's example. Sub 30 odd*, only a large number of them were on camera. She wasn't a drug addict either, nor did she have "mental issues". Very well balanced actually, though an absent father was a bit of a meme. Interesting woman with some interesting tales and last time we talked was getting on well in her life. Got into corporate sales of all things.








    *apparently while there are a long list of women that get cast, there is a remarkably small pool of men they can pick, so repeat appearances by the same guy are more the rule. This was back in the 90's mind you so things may have changed.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #168
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    I respect that. I wouldn't be of the same opinion if it were my daughter, but I respect your point of view.
    JeffKenna wrote: »
    If my daughter was a porn star I'd be bringing her straight to detox to get her off drugs/alcohol.

    So you respect my opinion but not your daughters? Interesting.


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    #169
    Standman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    I take it you performed a drug test then to back up your opinion?

    Have you?


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    #170
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Standman wrote: »
    Have you?

    I've never casted porn stars.

    To be honest I don't think it's something I'd ever do?


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    #171
    Recondite49
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    username123 wrote: »
    So you respect my opinion but not your daughters? Interesting.

    Words are meaningless here. Neither Jeff nor any parent would be able to prevent their adult daughter from doing adult films if that's what they wanted. Of course they could try to emotionally pressure them not to but this kind of finger wagging backfires as we previously discussed.


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    #172
    Aurora Green
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 39 ✭Aurora Green


    Kyson Tangy Tumor wrote: »
    Not sure whether to be impressed, jealous or horrified.

    500 is a big number regardless of gender.

    Are you sure she wasn't exaggerating? And is this just every guy she had some level of intimacy with or is it just people she had intercourse with?

    Those questions aren't really relevant though.

    I think this is a case in point where "numbers" should never really be revealed among partners, can of worms all the way. My fiancee and I have never discussed numbers. All we know is that neither of us were virgins when we met.

    How would you feel If she told you she had the same sexual history as the OP's ex?


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    #173
    Standman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    I've never casted porn stars.

    To be honest I don't think it's something I'd ever do?

    You are simply stating that porn stars are drug addicts, like it's a given.


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    #174
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    username123 wrote: »
    So you respect my opinion but not your daughters? Interesting.

    Naturally, if she were addicted to a substance how could she be in a correct mind frame to form an opinion.


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    #175
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Standman wrote: »
    You are simply stating that porn stars are drug addicts, like it's a given.

    I was stating I've never casted for a porn film??!


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    #176
    Recondite49
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    I take it you performed a drug test then to back up your opinion?

    No, I took the girls at their word. They were already admitting to breaking the law but were being interviewed in confidence. They certainly seemed lucid to me and I didn't see any of the usual sign of drug abuse. Of course some prostitutes take drugs as do City Workers, plumbers and hoteliers.

    The point remains these women weren't in a financial position to both pay tuition fees and fund a drug addiction. I certainly remember how expensive University is, and they were only working part time!


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    #177
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I believe they're called women*. *tetchy on my part I grant you, but it just personally grinds my gears.

    And males are called men. I am well aware of the linguistics. I have a tendency to reply to people "in kind" however and the poster I was replying to referred to men as "males" so I simply responded to his post in the same framework as he made it. If he had said men - id have said women. If he had said boys - I would have replied with girls.

    I doubt linguistic pedantry will add to the thread however. Women are "females" whether we like the word or not. You have never struck me as someone with overly sensitive "gears" before I must admit.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    In any event it does validate the viewpoint

    No. A view point is not made more valid based solely on the sex of the people who hold it. The point either stands for itself - or it fails. It can be argued for - or it can not. Regardless of whether the person who holds it is female - male - hermaphrodite - or sexless.
    JeffKenna wrote: »
    If my daughter was a porn star I'd be bringing her straight to detox to get her off drugs/alcohol.

    Perhaps divest yourself of baseless stereotypes before you go divesting anyone of anything else.

    One would hope that if your child has an addiction problem however - one would not need them to become a porn star before you felt compelled to intervene.
    Hazys wrote: »
    I can imagine whats going through the OP's mind; Every time he is at the bar looking around who here has his GF had sex with?

    Not sure what kind of grip on statistics he would need to have to be thinking like that. I doubt it would be a good one however.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Actually I knew an ex "Porn star"

    Cant say I have a similar anecdote myself (not that either of our anecdotes are verifiable or useful) about porn stars but I did know a few girls (5ish) who subsidised their university life with occasional prostitution. None of them fit any of the stereotypes I EVER see perpetuated about prostitutes either. They were the very model of career and education orientated human beings in all ways.

    Like you there is nothing in my anecdotes about mental illness or drug addiction either. What is it about stereotypes that I never manage to find people in my life that fit any of them?


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    #178
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Recondite49 wrote: »
    Words are meaningless here. Neither Jeff nor any parent would be able to prevent their adult daughter from doing adult films if that's what they wanted. Of course they could try to emotionally pressure them not to but this kind of finger wagging backfires as we previously discussed.



    So can I ask, have you slept with the girls that you casted?


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    #179
    Standman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    I was stating I've never casted for a porn film??!

    I was obviously referring to this:
    JeffKenna wrote: »
    If my daughter was a porn star I'd be bringing her straight to detox to get her off drugs/alcohol.


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    #180
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Naturally, if she were addicted to a substance how could she be in a correct mind frame to form an opinion.

    Why does being a porn star automatically equate to being addicted to a substance?


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    #181
    Recondite49
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Recondite49


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    So can I ask, have you slept with the girls that you casted?

    When I said I interviewed the escorts Jeff it was for a piece in the University's newspaper, I wasn't making an adult film! :)


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