Is Windows Phone Dying?

_Kaiser_

CatInABox wrote: »

Again, it's the App Gap that's the major issue, but Microsoft have made some great moves in trying to build bridges to get dev to move there apps onto the universal apps without much effort. I think Windows 10 will live and die by the success of that program and it's a total toss-up right now.

I don't know if it's so much an App Gap (although yes there are still a few key ones missing - especially local Irish apps) as much as the point that the same apps don't work as well as their Android/IOS counterparts. Whether that's down to MS not giving devs the necessary access to the system level, or limitations of the OS itself I don't know, but the result is that the platform as a whole suffers.

At the moment I'm back using a Lumia 1320 as my office handset and a Note 4 as my personal device and there's still a lot to like about the 1320 even over the 930 I was using beforehand (except maybe the placement of the power switch as I keep inadvertently turning it off when on a call) such as the performance, the clean UI and the outstanding battery life.. but an OS is only as good as the applications/apps that run on it and unfortunately on that front the Android has it beat in almost every way.

As you say, it's a toss up whether Universal Apps and Win 10 will change/save things .. personally I hope it does as, as above, it would be cool to have a consistent environment between desktop/laptop, and phone.. but we'll have to wait and see.. at least with the ecosystem being cross-platform there's nothing to lose by sticking with/taking a punt on a new handset anyway. Even if they do quit making them, your stuff will still be there on Android/IOS

CatInABox

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't know if it's so much an App Gap (although yes there are still a few key ones missing - especially local Irish apps) as much as the point that the same apps don't work as well as their Android/IOS counterparts. Whether that's down to MS not giving devs the necessary access to the system level, or limitations of the OS itself I don't know, but the result is that the platform as a whole suffers.

At the moment I'm back using a Lumia 1320 as my office handset and a Note 4 as my personal device and there's still a lot to like about the 1320 even over the 930 I was using beforehand (except maybe the placement of the power switch as I keep inadvertently turning it off when on a call) such as the performance, the clean UI and the outstanding battery life.. but an OS is only as good as the applications/apps that run on it and unfortunately on that front the Android has it beat in almost every way.

As you say, it's a toss up whether Universal Apps and Win 10 will change/save things .. personally I hope it does as, as above, it would be cool to have a consistent environment between desktop/laptop, and phone.. but we'll have to wait and see.. at least with the ecosystem being cross-platform there's nothing to lose by sticking with/taking a punt on a new handset anyway. Even if they do quit making them, your stuff will still be there on Android/IOS

Yeah, once most of the main Apps that were missing turned up, people bagan to realise that there was a vast gulf in quality between the platforms. Thus the "App Gap" now refers to both the lack of apps, and the gap in quality.

Do-more

Bayberry wrote: »

I have half a dozen IE tabs open on my 640 at the moment, including this one, and I'm just not seeing these problems. I occasionally try to access a business website that is obviously trying to use flash to do something, or has some buttons that just won't click, but I'm not encountering any major problems with the browser on the phone. Granted, 80% of my mobile browsing is restricted to a dozen or so very mainstream sites (amazon, rte, IMDB, Wikipedia, Bing, BBC, independent.ie, etc) which are big enough to have mobile friendly sites, but I'm surprised at you reports of browser problems.

Edit: I just remembered that I stopped accessing broadsheet.ie on my phone because it would crash the browser - but I gave up accessing on my laptop too, because it stopped being interesting.

I get the problems on a wide range of sites but from your list independent.ie would be one in particular.

But it can happen with just about any site and has even happened on boards.ie so not just "data heavy" sites.

Mostly the screen just freezes and IE becomes unresponsive to any button press so I have to go back to the home screen and select IE again and it will reopen with a blank tab.

bnt

I just gave m.independent.ie and www.broadsheet.ie a go, in Edge on my Lumia 640 running the latest W10 build. Both seem OK, but they have inline ads. I still wish Mozilla would bring out Firefox for W10, so I could make use of AdBlock, NoScript etc. I think I'm justified in blocking things, thanks to the laziness of some webmasters who casually allow 3rd-party JavaScript to be triggered from their sites. I would never try to load e.g. Huffington Post without such protection.

jimmynokia

With the recent news of upcoming phone's and one or two perhaps going to AT&T ONLY, Microsoft have clearly learned nothing.
The MS BAND another example, only available via PC World etc, not even on Irish store.
I do have hopes but not much, been an avid fan and supporter for year's as the name suggests but MS seems to be killing this that and the other and giving Android and iOS core apps, fine this sells services to the most popular OS's but get nothing in return, universal apps will not save them.
We are all aware of recent news and the WP fans that are here must see Satya hasn't got a clue about mobile and his continued focus on cloud and mobile is all it seems to be.
There's been no flagship in almost two year and too many overlapping device's which was becoming like Samsung, Yaya great sells loads of cheap entry models and loose a truck load while the hard core user's are left in limbo.

Was in a meteor store today and some guy bought two 535s, I was in shock and actually said to myself WTF are you doing. We do have an estimated 10% market share here, but there's been no push from anyone even MS,their PR company are not much good either, negativity from some journalists (those that are WP fans and regulars here know who the offenders are ) which gives bad perception imo.
I'm limited to say some things here but really can MS turn around in mobile? They bought Nokia and screwed it up lost a bomb, Nokia made Lumia and WP to what it is today, superb build quality on the 830/930 and that but MS have not delivered after. I still say they bought Nokia to prevent an Android onslaught, killing the X series was proof albeit forked but must of scared em..

unkel

jimmynokia wrote: »

There's been no flagship in almost two year

What about the upcoming 950 and 950XL?

InTheTrees

I'm starting to see a lot of MS ads for w10 on Tv, so I expect the marketing push is just starting up.

jimmynokia

@UNKEL. Point accepted BUT given the announcement date, I'll be there at the event , and the time it's actually launched here in Ireland.??
Past history which I've never been wrong on proves my point here. I'm hopeful for a better availability factor..

jimmynokia

@ In the trees. Seen some too, BUT they again silently release products on the Irish store and tell nobody there is more than you think that's available. There is sweet F all in retail.

beauf

Whats keeping Windows Phone going is the bang for buck at the low end. The speed is great on lower end hardware. But then MS release a bunch of low end phones which IMO really are a step too cheap like the 435/535. Looking at them, and seeing phones like Vodafone 6 Prime and 6 Prime Ultra in hand. I think Windows Phone struggle to retain their existing low end customers.

Then again my near 2yr old 520 still flies for day to day stuff. I can update it to 10. (even if it is slow). But our old Samsungs are slow and filled with useless bloat and stuck on an ancient version of Android. But the lack of some apps on the WP is really annoying.

jimmynokia

Same here my daughter loves WP and uses it as I've the HD 10 screen sharing puc, calling it a puc cause it looks like one, she was introduced to WP when she was 4, she's 7 soon and is a Wizz on it , my own fault, but we also have chromecast etc but she keeps using WP for games etc. For your money now, nothing beats the Vodafone 6 plus simple as that, even gives google's moto phone's a good run for money.

Fingleberries

beauf wrote: »

Whats keeping Windows Phone going is the bang for buck at the low end. The speed is great on lower end hardware. But then MS release a bunch of low end phones which IMO really are a step too cheap like the 435/535. Looking at them, and seeing phones like Vodafone 6 Prime and 6 Prime Ultra in hand. I think Windows Phone struggle to retain their existing low end customers.

Then again my near 2yr old 520 still flies for day to day stuff. I can update it to 10. (even if it is slow). But our old Samsungs are slow and filled with useless bloat and stuck on an ancient version of Android. But the lack of some apps on the WP is really annoying.

Microsoft have been making big progress in the very small margin low-end market. The thing is, that it seemed like every other week there was another Lumia with middling spec being released so there was nothing to write home about.

Luckily, it looks like Microsoft is trying to pull itself out of that rut. With it's 950 / 950 XL (still unannounced) they're going for a premium market (probably more HTC One than iPhone) and will try to focus their efforts there until early next year when the low-end models will come out.

Also, the fact that the rumoured 650, 750, 850 models have been canned to prevent confusion will help sort things out.

This is essentially trying to mimic the Surface model (not surprising since Panos Panay is now in charge of the phone division too). Make a reference model that the other OEMs can try and follow, all the while not stepping on the toes of the same OEMs you want to make their own phones. There's no way that any other OEM would seriously have tried Windows 10 Mobile with Microsoft owning 95% of the handset market.

I'm sure some OEMs are only looking at Windows Mobile now a) because it's free for them and b) it can probably be used to offset some of the licencing fees that Microsoft get from them anyway for making Android Handsets.

All this being said, the regular mantra of Windows Phone enthusiasts, Del Boy Trotter and Liverpool fans applies: "This time next year..."

senordingdong

I think MS need to release a surface phone line to be their new flagship, and keep the Lumia name for the low/middle range.

Seeking the Lumia name back to Nokia might be an idea but there's alot of sentiment that suggests the Lumia name is toxic.

beauf

I would have thought it was Windows Phone os that's toxic not Lumia.As the hardware was always fine

senordingdong

Perhaps it all is, name association.

But more than a few held hopes for Nokia quality hardware hosting android.

yosser hughes

I've had a Windows Phone for three or four years now. I like it, it goes well with my PC, I love one drive etc.
However having been a defender of Windows Phones in the past I'm on the verge of switching. Primarily because of apps. Pretty major companies don't have windows apps, Ryanair for example.

Tell me why I should stick with it, or not.
I hate the hassle of changing but as I say I'm on the verge.
Tell me why you have a Windows phone and are keeping it.

Outkast_IRE

yosser hughes wrote: »

I've had a Wibdows Phone for three or four years now. I like it, it goes well with my PC, I love one drive etc.
However having been a defender of Windows Phones in the past I'm on the verge of switching. Primarily because of apps. Pretty major companies don't have windows apps, Ryanair for example.

Tell me why I should stick with it, or not.
I hate the hassle of changing but as I say I'm on the verge.
Tell me why you have a Windows phone and are keeping it.

I think the unified windows 10 will help turn the corner and introduce more apps, also microsoft have made a big push on being easily able to convert apple/android apps to work on windows.

To be fair, i find most consumer apps to be pretty useless in comparison to their main websites.

I am hoping for a good announcement on new windows 10 phones soon, i am getting a new phone in december and if they havent launched by then i will move away completely.

beauf

yosser hughes wrote: »

...Tell me why I should stick with it, or not.
I hate the hassle of changing but as I say I'm on the verge.
Tell me why you have a Windows phone and are keeping it.

I'm the same on the fence. I like WP but MS just have let it get too far behind. The OS, (and the browser) simply isn't where it should be after all this time.

beauf

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

....To be fair, i find most consumer apps to be pretty useless in comparison to their main websites. ...

Which would be fine if WP had decent browser. It doesn't.

Mine has a lovely trait of crashing then forgetting completely where you've been for the last 20 mins. Its just painful to use much of the time.

senordingdong

yosser hughes wrote: »

. Primarily because of apps. Pretty major companies don't have windows apps, Ryanair for example.

I never understood this argument.
Most of the apps are just cobbled together shortcuts to a mobile site.
Anything you need can still be accessed through your browser.

beauf

Even if the browser was decent which it isn't. Usually an App is a better experience than a generic website, on a phone. Imo.

MJohnston

The browser in Windows 10 is fantastic on mobile. Google are heavily pushing web apps, so I think it'll be a couple of years and native apps will have fallen by the wayside.