Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

athtrasna

It was a frustrating one to watch, we handed them easy tries and scrapped for every point we managed to steal. Didn't think Nigel had a great game in the middle but I'll need to watch it back to be sure as I was at the game.

Mahatma Geansai

With this year's Pro12 disappointment behind us, I think we have a great opportunity to get a head-start next year. Great form in the Pro12 this or not, I don't think we will have many players going to the RWC and that should give us a chance to get the jump on Glasgow/Ospreys/Leinster.

We are probably looking at something along the lines of the following during the RWC:

1. Kilcoyne/Cronin
2. Casey/Sherry - Guinazu might be around too.
3. Archer/Botha
4. Foley
5. Ryan
6. Copeland/JOD/DOC
7. TOD
8. Stander
9. TOL/Williams
10. Keatley/Bleyendaal
11. ROM/VdH
12. Hurley
13. Saili - Earls might be around too.
14. Conway/VdH
15. Jones/Zebo

POC, POM and Murray will definitely go to the RWC. Earls and Jones have good chances of earning a spot in the squad, and Kilcoyne might be included too.

slingerz

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

With this year's Pro12 disappointment behind us, I think we have a great opportunity to get a head-start next year. Great form in the Pro12 this or not, I don't think we will have many players going to the RWC and that should give us a chance to get the jump on Glasgow/Ospreys/Leinster.

We are probably looking at something along the lines of the following during the RWC:

1. Kilcoyne/Cronin
2. Casey/Sherry - Guinazu might be around too.
3. Archer/Botha
4. Foley
5. Ryan
6. Copeland/JOD/DOC
7. TOD
8. Stander
9. TOL/Williams
10. Keatley/Bleyendaal
11. ROM/VdH
12. Hurley
13. Saili - Earls might be around too.
14. Conway/VdH
15. Jones/Zebo

POC, POM and Murray will definitely go to the RWC. Earls and Jones have good chances of earning a spot in the squad, and Kilcoyne might be included too.

Zebo has to have more of a chance of being involved that Earls or Jones

Also think Saili isn't going until November??

aimee1

slingerz wrote: »

Zebo has to have more of a chance of being involved that Earls or Jones

Also think Saili isn't going until November??

Jones will likely travel as FB cover
Earls has been far more impressive lately then Zebo who has been pretty poor the last month or so. He looks to have gone backwards, maybe he is carrying an injury

Rightwing

jacothelad wrote: »

Why? Very few players on the field will tog out in important games for Ireland in the RWC. Of the players on view last night, realistically, only POC is a starter. Murray is a definite. POM is an almost definite. Kilcoyne & Earls might be bench options. Zebo looks in need of a reboot and was clearly still injured from the last game. Stander won't be I.Q. After that there is little to offer. There is little correlation these days between Munster's playing roster and Ireland's performances. Despite being crap all season, Leinster will almost certainly be 'Ireland' with a smattering of M, U and C players.

True, but Leinster aren't exactly firing on all cylinders.
Ireland play a similar brand of rugby to Munster. Bit too negative for my liking.

Topcat1234

Earls is a better player than Zebo. Excellent work rate and couldnt be hungrier. Think Zebo is over-rated to be honest. Or else could just work harder.

Mahatma Geansai

slingerz wrote: »

Zebo has to have more of a chance of being involved that Earls or Jones

Also think Saili isn't going until November??

Zebo has had a good season and scored a tonne of tries (his 13 tries scored this season is the same amount as Luke has scored in the last 6 years/5 seasons), but I don't think had much a chance of traveling. Dropping him for Fitzgerald for the final 6N game, essentially scape-goating him for the loss to Wales, was a sign of where he is in the Irish pecking order.

If Saili isn't around until November, I'm not sure what Munster will do at 13. If Earls gets into the RWC squad, it should be a good chance for one of the young backs to prove themselves.

phog

Don't know if this was posted already but I haven't seen it here yet.

Legend by Daryl Feehely

CatFromHue

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Zebo has had a good season and scored a tonne of tries (his 13 tries scored this season is the same amount as Luke has scored in the last 6 years/5 seasons), but I don't think had much a chance of traveling. Dropping him for Fitzgerald for the final 6N game, essentially scape-goating him for the loss to Wales, was a sign of where he is in the Irish pecking order.

Lol Mahatma where do you get these ideas from?

total former

Here's a thought.

If you pick someone ahead of someone else based on their try scoring record, and they then don't score any tries, why would you retain him?

Lunatic "he only picks players he knows" theories aside, the more mundane truth is that Zebo is an inferior player to all of Bowe, Fitzgerald, Earls and Trimble. He's at the Gilroy/McFadden/Dave K level of the discussion. And I think one of those at best will travel, maybe none.

Topcat1234

Gilroy is better than Zebo.

09 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Bowe
12 Fitzgerald
13 Henshaw
14 Earls/Gilroy
15 Payne

aimee1

CatFromHue wrote: »

Lol Mahatma where do you get these ideas from?

its a fanciful notion really. Half of those tries were against sale 2nds, treviso and zebre. A stick often used to beat D Kearney with. The reality is Zebo just doesnt deliver on a consistent basis. Zebo wasnt scapegoated for the wales defeat either. There was two changes to the XV, McGrath benching for Healy the other and we stuck 40 points on scotland to win the 6n.

Mahatma Geansai

aimee1 wrote: »

its a fanciful notion really. Half of those tries were against sale 2nds, treviso and zebre. A stick often used to beat D Kearney with. The reality is Zebo just doesnt deliver on a consistent basis. Zebo wasnt scapegoated for the wales defeat either. There was two changes to the XV, McGrath benching for Healy the other and we stuck 40 points on scotland to win the 6n.

Doesn't Luke play against those same opposition? Or has he somehow gone 6 years without playing against second-class sides?

tommycahir

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Guinazu has a contract offer to stay on and is expected to sign it.

I seen this mentioned by the journalist Donn O'Sullivan also on Twitter so seems to be some substance behind it..

thomond2006

I'd prefer Craig Burden because of what he offers in the loose and he could take pressure off Stander and Cronin/Kilcoyne in ball carrying. Stander was shut down well by Glasgow and another option like Burden would be very useful. However Guinazu has done brilliantly for a player that Bath were happy to get off the books during the season. A club happy to release a player at that stage isn't a good sign but Guinazu has been excellent. There are 3 hookers already on the books, not including Sherry who is out of contract. I assume Sherry will be kept on as his recovery seems to be progressing.

aimee1

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Doesn't Luke play against those same opposition? Or has he somehow gone 6 years without playing against second-class sides?

Yes Luke does play against those opponents. But JS obviously wanted what luke brings ahead of what zebo brings in the most important game of his international coaching career to date. Running in tries for fun against sale 2nds or zebre or treviso isnt on his tick list for selection criteria.

The guy has 2 trophies in 2 seasons as an international coach, and 4 trophies in 3 seasons as a head coach at club level. He is a guy who knows what he doing. You seem to have severe difficulty understanding that, or else you think Zebo is far better then a lot of other people, including a coach who has delivered huge success in the last 5 years at leinster and ireland.


edit : ashton, wade and varndell are the top english wingers [tries scored] this season in the AP but they werent in their 6n squads. Clearly its not all about try scoring for wingers in the modern game

phog

aimee1 wrote: »

Yes Luke does play against those opponents. But JS obviously wanted what luke brings ahead of what zebo brings in the most important game of his international coaching career to date. Running in tries for fun against sale 2nds or zebre or treviso isnt on his tick list for selection criteria.

The guy has 2 trophies in 2 seasons as an international coach, and 4 trophies in 3 seasons as a head coach at club level. He is a guy who knows what he doing. You seem to have severe difficulty understanding that, or else you think Zebo is far better then a lot of other people, including a coach who has delivered huge success in the last 5 years at leinster and ireland.


edit : ashton, wade and varndell are the top english wingers [tries scored] this season in the AP but they werent in their 6n squads. Clearly its not all about try scoring for wingers in the modern game

Iirc, Joe wanted to give Zebo a break rather than what Fitz was supposed to bring to the game. Fitz's performance in that gane was disappointing to be honest.

aimee1

phog wrote: »

Iirc, Joe wanted to give Zebo a break rather than what Fitz was supposed to bring to the game. Fitz's performance in that gane was disappointing to be honest.

Fitz did ok. certainly wasnt a disappointing performance from him. It doesnt matter what the reason was, some people will automatically assume it was provincial bias or scapegoating.

total former

phog wrote: »

Iirc, Joe wanted to give Zebo a break rather than what Fitz was supposed to bring to the game. Fitz's performance in that gane was disappointing to be honest.

In the Ireland v Scotland game??

He was excellent.

Nothing "honest" about that post at all.

Kirk Van Houten

Mahatma Geansai wrote:

Doesn't Luke play against those same opposition? Or has he somehow gone 6 years without playing against second-class sides?

Zebo changing his game to try and please Joe kick and chase Schmidt hasnt worked out too well.

aimee1

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Zebo changing his game to try and please Joe kick and chase Schmidt hasnt worked out too well.

Joe "delivers silverware" schmidt

Tox56

total former wrote: »

In the Ireland v Scotland game??

He was excellent.

I believe even our usual suspect recognised that he played well (although of course this was only because he got chances Zebo didn't in previous games), which says something

thomond2006

I can't understand the moaning about Schmidt and the style when we see what it's delivered. You can argue that Ireland has been lucky etc but the fact is Ireland has won two championships, beaten Australia and South Africa and would have beaten New Zealand if the match hadn't been called off. Yeah it would be great if Ireland played like Glasgow but I'm liking the consecutive titles to be honest. Plus, who knows if Schmidt has something up his sleeve for the World Cup. I have a feeling we'll see a more 'palatable' Ireland come September, as I fear continuing with the same strategy will see Ireland found out if it doesn't work.

If we were South African would we have cared about South Africa playing a kick chase game in 2007?

Plus, Munster fans, do we recall how Munster closed the game out for a good portion of the second half against Toulouse in 2008? It wasn't exactly pretty but nobody (rightly) gave a bollix.

Tomtom364

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

If Saili isn't around until November, I'm not sure what Munster will do at 13. If Earls gets into the RWC squad, it should be a good chance for one of the young backs to prove themselves.

I wonder if GVDH might be utalised as a 13 a bit.

Interested Observer

thomond2006 wrote: »

I can't understand the moaning about Schmidt and the style when we see what it's delivered. You can argue that Ireland has been lucky etc but the fact is Ireland has won two championships, beaten Australia and South Africa and would have beaten New Zealand if the match hadn't been called off. Yeah it would be great if Ireland played like Glasgow but I'm liking the consecutive titles to be honest. Plus, who knows if Schmidt has something up his sleeve for the World Cup. I have a feeling we'll see a more 'palatable' Ireland come September, as I fear continuing with the same strategy will see Ireland found out if it doesn't work.

If we were South African would we have cared about South Africa playing a kick chase game in 2007?

Plus, Munster fans, do we recall how Munster closed the game out for a good portion of the second half against Toulouse in 2008? It wasn't exactly pretty but nobody (rightly) gave a bollix.

It's a very small and particularly vocal element who don't like Schmidt. Not really worth paying attention to tbh.

athtrasna

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I wonder if GVDH might be utalised as a 13 a bit.

Has it been clarified that he's staying? There was some confusion over the length of his contract

thomond2006

athtrasna wrote: »

Has it been clarified that he's staying? There was some confusion over the length of his contract

IIRC Garrett Fitzgerald confirmed in a video it expires 2016.

Kirk Van Houten

athtrasna wrote:

Has it been clarified that he's staying? There was some confusion over the length of his contract

Yes he has a contract for next season. Was kept on ahead of LOD.

George Hook

thomond2006 wrote: »

I can't understand the moaning about Schmidt and the style when we see what it's delivered. You can argue that Ireland has been lucky etc but the fact is Ireland has won two championships, beaten Australia and South Africa and would have beaten New Zealand if the match hadn't been called off. Yeah it would be great if Ireland played like Glasgow but I'm liking the consecutive titles to be honest. Plus, who knows if Schmidt has something up his sleeve for the World Cup. I have a feeling we'll see a more 'palatable' Ireland come September, as I fear continuing with the same strategy will see Ireland found out if it doesn't work.

If we were South African would we have cared about South Africa playing a kick chase game in 2007?

Plus, Munster fans, do we recall how Munster closed the game out for a good portion of the second half against Toulouse in 2008? It wasn't exactly pretty but nobody (rightly) gave a bollix.

Just to back the moaning side for a moment.

For us as fans watching, it's not always about the silverware, we want to be entertained and see our guys out there pulling off fantastic attacking rugby stuff we couldn't dream of being good enough to do ourselves.

Look at the island nations, they don't always win but it's almost always a really great time spent watching them play and we'd really love it if this master coach we currently have could get our guys playing like them.

That's all it is really, I mean Ireland can be kinda dull to watch at the moment.

Now to go back to the other side of the argument.

Yeah, it's really nice to actually get some silverware, we've been so close since well the early 2000s with not much really to show for it, so it's really nice to be getting some now.

Teferi

total former wrote: »

In the Ireland v Scotland game??

He was excellent.

Nothing "honest" about that post at all.

+10000000

Luke had an absolute cracker of a game. If I remember correctly he made a mistake or two due to a little overeagerness but he was the hungriest worker on the pitch.