General Rugby Discussion

Dog Botherer · 14-12-2016 3:11pm

Anyone know what time Hartley's hearing is due to start/end?

nsa0bupkd3948x · 14-12-2016 3:14pm

Started at 2. No idea how long they go on for.

irishbucsfan · 14-12-2016 3:16pm

They're currently reading his disciplinary history, should be finished sometime tomorrow morning.

Dog Botherer · 14-12-2016 3:17pm

Cheers. Should be an open and shut case but considering Hartley's form in this area and his status as England captain I reckon we might not get a verdict til well after 6.

Expecting 5 weeks, hoping for more.

Bridge93 · 14-12-2016 3:21pm

Anyone who listens to anything out of Woodwards mouth needs to stop. He's the most biased, jingoistic pundit on the circuit at the minute. After bringing 20 Englishmen on the 2005 lions tour after England came 3rd and then 4th in the 04/05 6N's, nobody need question is integrity

ScrubsfanChris · 14-12-2016 3:22pm

Lake1989 wrote: »

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/downright-pathetic-comments-from-clive-woodward-on-dylan-hartley/106228

Clive Woodward thinks Hartley marginally over stepped the mark and he was trying to tackle SOB because his arm was out.

Its ludicrous, even if SOB had stayed standing then it was a swinging no-tackle arm to his lower back. Still dangerous.

Lake1989 · 14-12-2016 3:26pm

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Its ludicrous, even if SOB had stayed standing then it was a swinging no-tackle arm to his lower back. Still dangerous.

the way hartley swung, he would have connected on SOBs upper back and gone upwards. Hartley literally put his entire body weight into that shot.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-12-2016 3:42pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote:

'Under World Rugby's Sanctions for Foul Play, Law 10.4 (a), Striking a player with a hand, arm or fist carries the following sanction entry points - Low End: 2 weeks; Mid-Range: 5 weeks; Top End: 8 to 52 weeks.'

Ah 8-52 weeks. I thought it was 8 weeks. It's not likely to be viewed as a top end offence so it's likely to be 5 weeks. To be fair he hit SOB's head because SOB was tackled. It's a sh1t defence to say ye only meant to clobber SOB in the body rather than the head but I expect it to be a mitigating circumstance.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 14-12-2016 3:44pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah 8-52 weeks. I thought it was 8 weeks. It's not likely to be viewed as a top end offence so it's likely to be 5 weeks. To be fair he hit SOB's head because SOB was tackled. It's a sh1t defence to say ye only meant to clobber SOB in the body rather than the head but I expect it to be a mitigating circumstance.

High end usually means closed fist

Lake1989 · 14-12-2016 3:47pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

High end usually means closed fist

Nick Williams got 8 weeks for a swinging arm offence a few years ago.

El_Duderino 09 · 14-12-2016 3:59pm

Lake1989 wrote:

Nick Williams got 8 weeks for a swinging arm offence a few years ago.

Low end of the high bracket. That could happen. With a few extra weeks tacked on for repeated offences. Anywhere between 5 and 12 weeks.

It's all guess work but it will be fascinating to see how it actually works out.

Hartley's a thug on the pitch which is actually a great quality in a captain, as long as he stays on the pitch. He takes it too far though. There has to be more consideration of safety so I hope he gets a decent ban.

My prediction is 8 weeks. I hope he gets slightly more (10-12 weeks) but I think it will moat likely be enough to keep him out of the first 6 nations game. They will surely take the 6n into account when they decide a penalty.

Anything less than a penalty that keeps him out of 6n will really only punish Northampton as it seems Hartley isnt really interested in playing for them anyway.

Interested Observer · 14-12-2016 4:17pm

Kaleb Immense Rubble wrote: »

Started at 2. No idea how long they go on for.

Depends on the case, they can go on for hours on certain occasions.

Stheno · 14-12-2016 4:18pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

Depends on the case, they can go on for hours on certain occasions.

Didn't SOBs in the WC go on for ages?

Shefwedfan · 14-12-2016 4:19pm

No game against All Blacks????

The Rugby Football Union has announced games against Argentina on November 11, Australia seven days later, and then Samoa on November 25.

England beat Australia four times this year, including a 3-0 Test series whitewash Down Under.

Both Australia and Argentina were on this season's autumn schedule, when England extended their winning run to 14 Tests.

England head coach Eddie Jones said: "These block of matches are an important step in our preparations for the 2019 Rugby World Cup in Japan, and we look forward to playing in the 2017 series against three tough opponents in Argentina, Australia and Samoa."

England Women, meanwhile, face three Tests against Canada next autumn, finishing the series at Twickenham on November 25 after the Samoa match has finished.

Interested Observer · 14-12-2016 4:21pm

Suggestions Hartley has gotten three weeks.

14-12-2016 4:24pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

Suggestions Hartley has gotten three weeks.

Funnily enough, I predicted that's what he would get though deserving of much more.

Much like with SOB during the World Cup, i'd wait until it's confirmed before pulling out the pitchforks.

Interested Observer · 14-12-2016 4:30pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Funnily enough, I predicted that's what he would get though deserving of much more.

Much like with SOB during the World Cup, i'd wait until it's confirmed before pulling out the pitchforks.

I just read it on Planet Rugby, could well be not true.

Lake1989 · 14-12-2016 5:00pm

https://twitter.com/alastaireykyn/status/809065442958606337

irishbucsfan · 14-12-2016 5:06pm

https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/809062826849501184

Bah humbug world rugby are sore losers, game has gone soft etc. etc.

Great for them to have more new rules to not enforce.

swiwi_ · 14-12-2016 5:10pm

Lake1989 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/alastaireykyn/status/809065442958606337

Yeah :rolleyes:

"TMO, in your opinion did the player know or should have known..?"

"You're not sure, you think it might have been accidental"

"Red 6, it's a penalty only, we can't be sure you knew or should have known that your tackle around the shoulders would end up slipping above the shoulders"

We are just risking more fuzziness imo.

irishbucsfan · 14-12-2016 5:12pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Yeah :rolleyes:

"TMO, in your opinion did the player know or should have known..?"

"You're not sure, you think it might have been accidental"

"Red 6, it's a penalty only, we can't be sure you knew or should have known that your tackle around the shoulders would end up slipping above the shoulders"

We are just risking more fuzziness imo.

It's not risking anything. Players need to stop tackling at head height.

Buer · 14-12-2016 5:14pm

England are to host Australia, Samoa and Argentina in their autumn internationals next year. So, if they do the Grand Slam and break the NZ record of 19 wins in a row, odds are that they'll go on to add 5 more to that (they tour a weakened Argentina in June) and put up an insurmountable record of 24 wins on the trot.

CMOTDibbler · 14-12-2016 5:14pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Yeah :rolleyes:

"TMO, in your opinion did the player know or should have known..?"

"You're not sure, you think it might have been accidental"

"Red 6, it's a penalty only, we can't be sure you knew or should have known that your tackle around the shoulders would end up slipping above the shoulders"

We are just risking more fuzziness imo.

I think it helps if you look at it the other way. i.e. The tackle ends up around the neck or head and it didn't start at the navel.

irishbucsfan · 14-12-2016 5:15pm

Buer wrote: »

England are to host Australia, Samoa and Argentina in their autumn internationals next year. So, if they do the Grand Slam and break the NZ record of 19 wins in a row, odds are that they'll go on to add 5 more to that (they tour a weakened Argentina in June) and put up an insurmountable record of 24 wins on the trot.

The record is 24 at the moment! Let's not forget

ScrubsfanChris · 14-12-2016 5:15pm

https://twitter.com/RugbyBanterPag3/status/809068729401229314

Bridge93 · 14-12-2016 5:16pm

They'll be getting anxious in Nicosia with this news

irishbucsfan · 14-12-2016 6:13pm

6 weeks for Hartley.

So around what we were expecting really

Professor Moriarty · 14-12-2016 6:16pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

6 weeks for Hartley.

So around what we were expecting really

If he behaved on the street the way he behaves on the pitch, this time it would six months.

Lake1989 · 14-12-2016 6:17pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

6 weeks for Hartley.

So around what we were expecting really

Think he is a little lucky with 6 weeks but its a serious enough ban.

CMOTDibbler · 14-12-2016 6:19pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

6 weeks for Hartley.

So around what we were expecting really

Looks like it was considered a mid-range offence and a bit above entry level. Possibly an extra week added for previous.

Edit: looks like I was right... ish

In upholding the red card decision, the Committee found that the offence was at the mid-range of World Rugby's sanctions and selected five weeks as the appropriate entry point.

Taking into account Hartley's poor disciplinary record, the Committee added two weeks to the sanction and then reduced the sanction by one week due to the player's guilty plea before imposing a suspension of six weeks.

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