Vermin Count thread - discuss your latest catch/shoot

Backfire

Hi guys

I thought i'd create a thread solely for talk on your latest vermin count, either shot or trapped or watever means you got them. Also to discuss tips for others to use to help them be more successful in dealing with vermin.

When it comes to vermin, it includes the list designated as vermin by the NARGC.

Vermin: Grey crow, Rooks, Magpies, and Jackdaws.
Ground Vermin: Rats, Mice, Mink, Fox, Rabbit, Feral Goat and Grey squirrel.

Even if vermin such as rooks or jackdaws are not worth points in your local gun club vermin count, they can still be discussed here. And of course any pictures are welcome.

Vermin shooting and trapping is my biggest interest. My club takes part in the Kerry R.G.C. Vermin count competition. I currently have 43 magpies, 2 grey crows and 4 foxes got. Which isnt much by some fellow standards but i am relatively pleased. My club mate has a lot more than me.

So if you have any interest in vermin control/shooting/trapping please post here with details on your latest success or if you are just looking for help or information.

Cheers!
Shane.

minktrapper

Don't forget mink.They should be put at the top of everyones list.

Backfire

minktrapper wrote: »

Don't forget mink.They should be put at the top of everyones list.

Thanks for that. I edited the post with the full list of vermin by the NARGC.

J.R.

I would remove jay from the list as they're a protected species and nobody shoots them.

You could also include rabbits and feral goats in the mammals.

Eddie B

I have about twenty five mink tails from last winter that i never handed in!
Club doesn't seem too bothered about vermin the last couple of years anyway!

Cass

That "vermin" list. It's issued by the NARGC?

Grey crows, magpies, jackdaws, etc. are not vermin. They have a season. See here. As such they can only bee shot either in season or under derogation. If a species (bird or mammal) has a species then it's not vermin (able to be shot all year round).

Dian Cecht

In all my years shooting I never knew grey crows & magpies had a "season" :eek: What legislation does that come in under?

Backfire

I didn't want this thread to be turned into a debate about what is and is not regarded as vermin.

The NARGC have some of their statements mixed up and yes the original list of vermin I posted was literally copy n pasted from the NARGC website. But they have them listed as vermin in relation to game management and predator control
Link: http://www.nargc.ie/habitat-conservation/game-development.aspx

The term vermin seems to have deviations in its meaning by people all over the world.
In my view, if the animal is a nuisance to humans and/or human livestock/sheep, etc, then its vermin.

All I can tell you, the vermin competition includes mink, grey crow, magpie and fox. And its called a vermin competition. So take your own meaning if you so wish.

So back to what this thread was initially created for, discussing your work and success in the trapping/shooting of....'nuisance' animals or vermin. Whichever.

cookimonster

Cass wrote: »

That "vermin" list. It's issued by the NARGC?

Grey crows, magpies, jackdaws, etc. are not vermin. They have a season. See here. As such they can only bee shot either in season or under derogation. If a species (bird or mammal) has a species then it's not vermin (able to be shot all year round).

There is an amendment to the wild life act and it allows the hunting etc of a list of birds that most of us regoard as vermin species, but this only spans from the 31 April 2013 to the 1 May 2014 and is to be reviewed this year. As far as I can make out this is only a short term arrangement and until further notice the these birds are protected under the wild life act as directed by the EU.

I can't find a live doc but I have a PDF copy so here's a bad screen shot.



Here's how the schedule is laid out:


This covers: Hooded Crow, Magpie, Rook, Jackdaw, Wood / Feral Pigeons

This was signed on the 5th of June last so here's hoping another amendment is on its way...

Sorry for dampening what I think will be a good thread

ace86

I find myself this yr that grey crows and magpies don't seem to be as plentiful around my own place as the lst few yrs, do other people find that in their areas?

Backfire

ace86 wrote: »

I find myself this yr that grey crows and magpies don't seem to be as plentiful around my own place as the lst few yrs, do other people find that in their areas?

I find the same myself but isn't that something that should be happening?

I mean since we do annual trapping and shooting, you will inevitably reduce the population number of all vermin in your area. Thats why I find it strange for some clubs to consistently have huge numbers for the vermin count year in, year out. It doesn't make practical sense.

Consistent trapping of magpies has resulted in the populations of smaller bird species notably increasing where I live, particularly blackbirds, green finches and bull finches. Magpies are noted to be raiders of nests and young chicks.

Grey crows are normally rare enough around where I live, but are plentiful where my gun club mate lives. I think he has 34 got for the count so far for this year.

minktrapper

Grey crows and magpies are getting scarce here too.I trap so many of them that if they weren't there would be something wrong.

Birdnuts

cookimonster wrote: »

There is an amendment to the wild life act and it allows the hunting etc of a list of birds that most of us regoard as vermin species, but this only spans from the 31 April 2013 to the 1 May 2014 and is to be reviewed this year. As far as I can make out this is only a short term arrangement and until further notice the these birds are protected under the wild life act as directed by the EU.

I can't find a live doc but I have a PDF copy so here's a bad screen shot.



Here's how the schedule is laid out:


This covers: Hooded Crow, Magpie, Rook, Jackdaw, Wood / Feral Pigeons

This was signed on the 5th of June last so here's hoping another amendment is on its way...

Sorry for dampening what I think will be a good thread

No - these derogations are rolled over routinely every 12 months. Below is the link to the latest one covering May 2014 to April 2015

http://www.countrysideallianceireland.org/file/Declaration_for_May_2014-April_2015_State_Wide.pdf

I can't see anything wrong with these thread as the derogations clearly cover legitimate vermin control in the case of the species mentioned by the OP

cookimonster

Birdnuts wrote: »

No - these derogations are rolled over routinely every 12 months. Below is the link to the latest one covering May 2014 to April 2015

http://www.countrysideallianceireland.org/file/Declaration_for_May_2014-April_2015_State_Wide.pdf......

Thanks Birdnuts, I couldn't find this years declaration.
IMO your always better off knowing the details instead of presuming, you never know what the EU boffins will come out with next.

Sika98k

ace86 wrote: »

I find myself this yr that grey crows and magpies don't seem to be as plentiful around my own place as the lst few yrs, do other people find that in their areas?

Agree with you there,62 magpies,14 grey crows so far. Down about 30-35% I reckon.

Pat McGroin

cookimonster wrote: »

There is an amendment to the wild life act and it allows the hunting etc of a list of birds that most of us regoard as vermin species, but this only spans from the 31 April 2013 to the 1 May 2014 and is to be reviewed this year. As far as I can make out this is only a short term arrangement and until further notice the these birds are protected under the wild life act as directed by the EU.

I can't find a live doc but I have a PDF copy so here's a bad screen shot.



Here's how the schedule is laid out:


This covers: Hooded Crow, Magpie, Rook, Jackdaw, Wood / Feral Pigeons

This was signed on the 5th of June last so here's hoping another amendment is on its way...

Sorry for dampening what I think will be a good thread

Was at a NARGC meeting one night and they explained it was illegal to shoot any wild bird with a rifle . Protected or not . So how come it says its ok in the document above ?

Backfire

Pat McGroin wrote: »

Was at a NARGC meeting one night and they explained it was illegal to shoot any wild bird with a rifle . Protected or not . So how come it says its ok in the document above ?

Yeah shooting a bird using a rifle is susposed to be illegal, the NARGC say that in their 'Gameshot' magazine. Why is this the case? Why is it perfectly legal to shoot a bird using a shotgun but not a rifle?

Hopefully all rifle owners are not stupid enough to take a shot at a bird in the air or sitting on a branch?...!

Anyway, 62 magpies and 14 grey crows is good going Sika98k. I was talking to my gun club mate and he gave me an update on his count. 104 magpies, 38 grey crows and 12 fox tails.

ace86

Backfire wrote: »

Yeah shooting a bird using a rifle is susposed to be illegal, the NARGC say that in their 'Gameshot' magazine. Why is this the case? Why is it perfectly legal to shoot a bird using a shotgun but not a rifle?

Hopefully all rifle owners are not stupid enough to take a shot at a bird in the air or sitting on a branch?...!

Anyway, 62 magpies and 14 grey crows is good going Sika98k. I was talking to my gun club mate and he gave me an update on his count. 104 magpies, 38 grey crows and 12 fox tails.

That's good clipping he could have double that easy come August id say the way he's going. If the law says a rifle can be used well then its perfectly legal in my eyes just watch ur background is all.

Backfire

ace86 wrote: »

That's good clipping he could have double that easy come August id say the way he's going. If the law says a rifle can be used well then its perfectly legal in my eyes just watch ur background is all.

Yeah you have to be extremely careful with a rifle.
Just make sure that any shot you take will end up in the earth on the ground or an earth bank behind the bird. The bird must be on the ground in my opinion.

Hows the trapping going by you this year ace86?

ace86

Backfire wrote: »

Yeah you have to be extremely careful with a rifle.
Just make sure that any shot you take will end up in the earth on the ground or an earth bank behind the bird. The bird must be on the ground in my opinion.

Hows the trapping going by you this year ace86?

No Trapping has been very slack by me this yr I don't seem to see as many greys and magpies around my areas this yr compared to other yrs. I have been at it the lst few yrs and like one guy says if ur hammering all the time eventually there numbers willl fall. I lend my cages out to guys and things and they find the same in there areas too. A relation of mine had 20 magpies got in a wk this time lst yr and has only got 2 greys and 2 magpies so far.I have seen an increase in wild life off all sorts especially Ducks/Pheasants around my place and I hear them clucking mad these days and I seen 2 cocks fighting 2 day for myself a nice sight to see.

villa1979

Hey lads only joined today im big into vermin have 82 mags ,11,greys 32 foxs ,7 mink , last 10 days have been mad catching lots of young mags now is the time to do damage to the magpie population catching parents and young in a single day is easy

patdahat

100ish pair of wings, 15 ish foxs and 3/4 mink. There will be a serious amount of wings collected in the next few weeksalong with fox tail's just dont have the time to get to the river to set the mink traps.

Backfire

@villa1979: welcome to boards.ie and glad to see you made your first post here. nice going with over 30 foxes!
What methods have you used to getting all your vermin? A .223 for the foxes? Larsen trap for magpies? Etc.

My club mate believes the 50 pence shaped magpie/crow cage is the best for the grey crow. He uses waste fat from the butcher. The grey crow prefers to walk along the ground into a cage instead of jumping up on top of one such as the standard 2 trapper larsen. He's probably right.

@ace86: could you bring your cage to some neighbour to trap some magpies there? Or have you completely wiped them out in your parish? i have been trapping with my father for 10 years and we are still trapping magpies on our farm. It depends how many trees are in your area too.

@patdahat: thats a good count by you. The ladder trap working well for you? Not so good by me.

How many of yee guys are trapping in areas that you never trapped before? Thats gonna be the case for me this summer, have a few places lined up. Just waiting to get my summer holidays next week. And then i'm on full time vermin control!

villa1979

Im using 3 Larsen traps I made myself cheap as piss , don't bother catching mink after march when the trout fishing starts this stops young lads finding the fenn traps by accident don't want any getting hurt, Most of the foxs I shoot is with the howa 223, but have shot a couple of cubs with the 22 over the last couple of weeks. When im finished I will post a picture of when I have there is a lot of members in my club and only a handful will bother catching vermin its the same in most clubs

Backfire

I have not caught a mink in ages. I don't see them around. I put down 5 traps in a place where I was told they were, even seen out on a nearby road. I couldn't see any evidence of their but put down the cages anyway, using a bit of mackerel as bait but nothing.

In my club its just me and my mate who go after vermin. Thats it. I know our club haven't a hope in hell in winning but we do it anyway as its just an interest. We go fox lamping together, he has the remington 700 .223, but he has a Burris Laserscope on it, which you can't mount the lamp onto it. So I hold the lamp and he does the shooting (mainly).

I have 2 larsen traps, he has a larsen, the 50 pence magpie and the bigger 50 pence shaped grey crow cage. He also owns a ladder trap which I borrow from time to time. Its something which I have little luck with. (the ladder trap).

I'll start posting pictures in this thread later on when I have the time.

ace86

@ace86: could you bring your cage to some neighbour to trap some magpies there? Or have you completely wiped them out in your parish? i have been trapping with my father for 10 years and we are still trapping magpies on our farm. It depends how many trees are in your area too.

Ah between myself and the club members we all have every place tried and we all find new corners every yr and farmers especially around spring be crying out for cages and if worked right are very effective. I normally use the big round crow trap and in 2 weeks lst august i got 25 crows with only 2 nights with nothing in it at all, it was the best I every got in one place.Hoping to get into lamping foxes more, hard thing is to get someone to go with ya or else most lads have their buddies they use all the time, and everyone busy this time of yr as well and I'm starting a new job so my trapping will finish unless someone wants my cage.

ace86

Backfire wrote: »

I have not caught a mink in ages. I don't see them around. I put down 5 traps in a place where I was told they were, even seen out on a nearby road. I couldn't see any evidence of their but put down the cages anyway, using a bit of mackerel as bait but nothing.

Any watercourse drains,streams caols,rivers you would be surprised were you would get them,especially after floods and heavy rain they'd be on the move.
I was told by a friend of mine he saw one crossing a road from some bog into more bog where a few sally trees were growing and I threw the trap in there not expecting to get anything and after a few days I had him nabbed so you never know where you would come across them. Do you wear gloves,preferably disposable when setting the trap?

Backfire

Yeah its right near the banks of a river where I had the cages. Well a small bit in near drains where the water would back up during high tide.

That is where they were seen, but I didnt see any signs of activity on the banks either.

I do know they move around a lot so maybe they just happen to leave the area right before I put down my cages and could be back there again right now. Might go back someday next week to check.

I caught magpie #44 on friday.

Now magpie #45

Eddie B

Backfire wrote: »

Yeah its right near the banks of a river where I had the cages. Well a small bit in near drains where the water would back up during high tide.

That is where they were seen, but I didnt see any signs of activity on the banks either.

I do know they move around a lot so maybe they just happen to leave the area right before I put down my cages and could be back there again right now. Might go back someday next week to ceck.]

Has to be mink present! Maybe someone is trapping your area and not advertising it!

minktrapper

Maybe mice taking the bait.

cookimonster

Went up with my mate for a recie on his new permisson, place was crawling in bunnies.
The crop is munched flat around the edges. Knocked 7 in no time at all. It will be lamped later in the week.

Backfire

Good going cookimonster there isnt many rabbits around my area, mainly due to the fact that the soils do not have sufficient drainage for rabbits.
I have been invited to shoot rabbits in another place where it is litered with them. I hope to do that sometime this month and get my .22lr cz 455 working.

@ace86: i forgot to mention that i didnt wear gloves. Could be my downfall although i do wear latex gloves when setting a fox cage.

Sika98k

I went down to a fish shop a few days ago and got a pound or so of heads,tails and bits.
Left them in a black plastic bag in the sun for a day. Sprinkled some out,downwind,Phew,it stank,yesterday and this afternoon.

Got one fox on the field just at dark and another at midnight. I could see them quite well by the moon.
Very satisfied with this as a lot of the foxes are lamp shy from feckers out with lurchers.

ace86

@ace86: i forgot to mention that i didnt wear gloves. Could be my downfall although i do wear latex gloves when setting a fox cage.[/QUOTE]

Well What I normally do anytime before i set a cage I pour boiling hot water over the cage they say it gets rid of any scent that's on it and I then use my latex glove to handle the cage after that, also when gloves are on maybe rub dirt grass etc into them from where u are going to place the cage. Try and see you could have success u might not, but what i was told about mink they have a great sense of smell but poor eye sight.

Eddie B

ace86 wrote: »

@ace86: i forgot to mention that i didnt wear gloves. Could be my downfall although i do wear latex gloves when setting a fox cage.

Well What I normally do anytime before i set a cage I pour boiling hot water over the cage they say it gets rid of any scent that's on it and I then use my latex glove to handle the cage after that, also when gloves are on maybe rub dirt grass etc into them from where u are going to place the cage. Try and see you could have success u might not, but what i was told about mink they have a great sense of smell but poor eye sight.[/QUOTE]

Trapping for over 20 years, and seldom use gloves!

True that mink have a great sence of smell, but also good eyesight! Even though mink can smell human Sent off traps, they don't necessarily have a fear of it!

ace86

Eddie B wrote: »

Well What I normally do anytime before i set a cage I pour boiling hot water over the cage they say it gets rid of any scent that's on it and I then use my latex glove to handle the cage after that, also when gloves are on maybe rub dirt grass etc into them from where u are going to place the cage. Try and see you could have success u might not, but what i was told about mink they have a great sense of smell but poor eye sight.

Trapping for over 20 years, and seldom use gloves!

True that mink have a great sence of smell, but also good eyesight! Even though mink can smell human Sent off traps, they don't necessarily have a fear of it![/QUOTE]

Sound but i don't think they have good eye sight from what i'm told i'm open to correction on it still, and fair play to ya that you don't need the gloves i only use them as an extra helping hand in nabbing one.

Backfire

ace86 wrote: »

Trapping for over 20 years, and seldom use gloves!

True that mink have a great sence of smell, but also good eyesight! Even though mink can smell human Sent off traps, they don't necessarily have a fear of it!

Sound but i do think they have good eye sight from what i'm told i'm open to correction on it still, and fair play to ya that you don't need the gloves i only use them as an extra helping hand in nabbing one.[/QUOTE]

they do say that wearing gloves is essential when setting a fox cagetrap. I always do wear gloves when using them. I always have a couple of fox traps going all the time, my father makes them using galvanised mesh.

We only have 1 silage field cut so far, most of our silage was slow growing this spring, its almost ready now.
But in the field we have cut, I put down a couple of cages, cages which I normally use to catch cats or rabbits, a bit of bread and/or duck egg on the trip or under the cage and caught a jackdaw yesterday.
And had 2 crows in one today, both just happen to be in the cage when one or both set off the trip. It has often happened, took a photo while i thought of it.


I know rooks are not worth any points in my club's vermin count, but there is loads of them around, too many in fact, its good to keep them under check, along with jackdaws.

Eddie B

Backfire wrote: »

Sound but i do think they have good eye sight from what i'm told i'm open to correction on it still, and fair play to ya that you don't need the gloves i only use them as an extra helping hand in nabbing one.

they do say that wearing gloves is essential when setting a fox cagetrap. I always do wear gloves when using them. I always have a couple of fox traps going all the time, my father makes them using galvanised mesh.

We only have 1 silage field cut so far, most of our silage was slow growing this spring, its almost ready now.
But in the field we have cut, I put down a couple of cages, cages which I normally use to catch cats or rabbits, a bit of bread and/or duck egg on the trip or under the cage and caught a jackdaw yesterday.
And had 2 crows in one today, both just happen to be in the cage when one or both set off the trip. It has often happened, took a photo while i thought of it.


I know rooks are not worth any points in my club's vermin count, but there is loads of them around, too many in fact, its good to keep them under check, along with jackdaws.[/QUOTE]

Yea Fox's are much more wary than mink when it comes to traps and people, so gloves are a big help there!
Nice work on the traps by the way! Your Da should start a new business!

ace86

ace86 wrote: »

Trapping for over 20 years, and seldom use gloves!

True that mink have a great sence of smell, but also good eyesight! Even though mink can smell human Sent off traps, they don't necessarily have a fear of it!

Sound but I don't think they have good eye sight from what i'm told I'm open to correction on it still, and fair play to ya that you don't need the gloves i only use them as an extra helping hand in nabbing one.[/QUOTE]

Said i'd repost due to a typo error.

cookimonster

(minus 6 rabbits, no photos)

This weekend's tally, a total of 8 rabbits, 1 grey and 2 magpies.
Missed the chance of a fox when we were taking a break in the jeep, he walked right in front of the bonnet, while all the rifles where in the boot. Tried in vain but would not turn to the call. I reckon he was heading down to the freshly cut fields, never saw sight nor sign of him again.

Backfire

Great work cookimonster!

I have to say I just love shooting grey crows!

In the past week, only got 2 more magpies. And surprised to get them at that going by the cage's location.
Thats 47 magpies now.

But silage is being cut tomorrow so I am getting myself ready, plenty of cagetraps out with bread, eggs and fat from the butcher.
And of course, my cz 455 will be out, I've a few locations for hiding selected. So, if a rook/grey/magpie or jackdaw comes within range, the cz will have a round going down the barrel towards it!

cookimonster

This weeks results (no pictures)

Thursday Evening approx 8.30 - 9ish, on the edge of a cut and cleared field. Stopped what turned out to be a large and rather fat dog fox. He wouldn't come out to the call and kept to a patch of dead ground with just the ears and occasional glimpse of his back. But persistence on our part and curiosity on his led him to sit up tall and he was duely dispatched with 100grns of .243 (150-160m)

Saturday
Early Evening 5-6.30
Set up on a tree lined lane with a mixed bag of dead bird decoys on a another cut and cleared field. Total results where half a doz crows and one grey, again frightened more than hit.

Saturday Night
Caught a fox crossing out in the open grazed pasture, no safe shot and it would not return to calls.
Got into position, had another appearance down by the farm buildings but wasn't interested, eventually about 11.00 or so a fox appeared out behind us coming from a bailed field heading to the gorse. Quick squeak, the fox paused, I squeezeed and another vixen was no more.

By the by there was a great deal of wildlife activity that day, we where happy to see our released birds thriving on the permisson, a good clean badger passed with great attitude close to us and the bunnies and bats kept us entertained as the light faded. Great little country when the rain gives us a break.

villa1979

Going to hit the magpie 100 mark this weekend would have did it earlier only some fool let my magpie out of the trap had the same call bird for 2 years plenty of small cubs around lately not going to shoot them till a bit bigger

Backfire

Quite enough by me these days.

Although yesterday morning, I walked down to one of the cut silage fields to see this:

Magpie #48, #49 and #50


Got the loan of this pentagon-shaped mapgie cage from a gun club mate, it traps 4 at a time. Many people have these. I might buy one myself.

Got nothing in the trap this morning though.

Shot 4 rooks yesterday. Caught another rook in a cage this morning.

minktrapper

Great for catching grey crows.

J.R.

I've been out during the week trying to get on top of the vermin problem.

dodderangler

Need t get myself out shooting again. Just havint had much time but as far as vermin go I've killed 4 rats in two weeks with a shovel in work

Backfire

Been busy enough the past week or so with trapping. Shot a good few rooks too.
For the vermin count I am now on 68 magpies, 17 grey crows, 4 fox and finally trapped my first mink. The mink was dead in the cage when i got to it strangely enough. Got 10 magpies in one place this week, delighted with that.

cookimonster

We got two foxes since last post and had a pleasant day on the pigeons on Sunday. Farmer had given one of the lads a emergency call and wanted a job done over standing crop. Dropped a mix bag of approximately 35 birds- mainly pigeon, handful of crows and two greys. Unfortunately we only picked 15 birds, we expected as much, but needs must.
Got another call from another farm, same, same. Mustering the lads for another outing. Roll on the harvest:D

Backfire

Nice going cookiemonster
What model shotguns were you using? And I presume a mix of 7s and 8s being used?

In that place where I have caught 10 magpies that I mentioned in my previous post, went there this evening to check the cage and had 2 more magpies I put in some waste meat now, might attract the grey crows.

cookimonster

Backfire wrote: »

Nice going cookiemonster
What model shotguns were you using? And I presume a mix of 7s and 8s being used?.

Lamber and Baikel, mainly using 6's 32g and 7 1/2 28g. I normally use the 7 1/2 for decoying pigeon, Sunday we where just burning up last season's odds and sods.