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The Virgin Media Television thread

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    #1532
    zefer
    Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭zefer


    Kerrydude1981 wrote: »
    No,thought it would be like RTE 2 HD and BBC 1 and 2 HD and be free.

    Don't think it is, think you need the HD package


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    #1533
    Kerrydude1981
    Registered Users Posts: 14,193 ✭✭✭✭Kerrydude1981


    zefer wrote: »
    Don't think it is, think you need the HD package

    Il leave them at it so :cool:


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    #1534
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    No TV3 HD on Saorview? Haven't had the chance to check today.


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    #1535
    Joo0
    Registered Users Posts: 417 ✭✭Joo0


    nicelives wrote: »
    Just gone live on Sky 103 31 minutes ago but like yourself haven't had a chance to check saorview although TV3 didn't seem to be going that direction till prices changed

    Not planned to launch on Saorview any time soon. Best chance of it ever launching on saorview is if they are forced to by the competition authority


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    #1536
    lertsnim
    Registered Users Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    bk wrote: »
    I'm not saying it is a slam dunk, but it gives them a more powerful negotiating position. I see them doing the same in the UK with ITV if they end up buying a controlling stake in it.

    Two scenarios

    UPC says to Sky, "We want a better deal for your channels on our platform or we pull TV3 and 3e"

    Or

    Sky says to UPC, "we are taking away our channels from yur cable platform unless we can get a better deal on TV3"

    Who do you think would have more leverage?

    TV3 isn't that big of a deal currently.


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    #1537
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Sky are required to carry TV3 on their platform here in Ireland, so they can't threaten to dump it. That is what gives UPC negotiating leverage.

    Plus Sky can't just pull it's own channels from UPC. UPC has more then 500,000 TV customers, that is a lot of subscribers to Sky. They wouldn't want to lose all those either. And no if Sky wasn't on UPC, all those people wouldn't suddenly jump to Sky, some would, but most of UPC's customers tend to be in cities, in apartments etc. and can't or don't want to put up dishes.

    And don't forget Sky already tried this in the UK, pulling it's channels from Virgin Media and ended up getting destroyed in the courts and the UK competition authority and ended up having to come to a fair and equitable agreement with Virgin to carry their channels. So they aren't going down that road again.


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    #1538
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,543 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Some of us have bad memories of the 1992-1994 dispute where Sky pulled Sky One (at that time the only general entertainment channel on satellite) and Sky News from Cablelink. I don't think anything like that could or should ever happen again. There has been talk but Sky Sports is such a huge driver of pay-TV subscriptions now that I couldn't see UPC dropping it. Sky do have Ofcom imposed Wholesale Must Offer requirements for Sky Sports 1 & 2 that they have heretofore honoured in Ireland (admittedly before Sky Ireland became a separate subsidary).


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    #1539
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    bk wrote: »
    Sky are required to carry TV3 on their platform here in Ireland, so they can't threaten to dump it. That is what gives UPC negotiating leverage.

    No requirement for sky to carry any Irish channel. They are regulated by OfCom in the UK. They do however go with Irish law out of courtesy.


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    #1540
    lertsnim
    Registered Users Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    bk wrote: »
    Sky are required to carry TV3 on their platform here in Ireland, so they can't threaten to dump it. That is what gives UPC negotiating leverage.

    Plus Sky can't just pull it's own channels from UPC. UPC has more then 500,000 TV customers, that is a lot of subscribers to Sky. They wouldn't want to lose all those either. And no if Sky wasn't on UPC, all those people wouldn't suddenly jump to Sky, some would, but most of UPC's customers tend to be in cities, in apartments etc. and can't or don't want to put up dishes.

    And don't forget Sky already tried this in the UK, pulling it's channels from Virgin Media and ended up getting destroyed in the courts and the UK competition authority and ended up having to come to a fair and equitable agreement with Virgin to carry their channels. So they aren't going down that road again.

    There is no requirement to carry TV3.

    If Sky are being screwed by UPC then of course they can pull their channels. Why would they allow UPC to screw them?

    The UK has a regulatory body willing to take on Sky. I don't think that we have that here.

    It will never happen anyway as the idea of TV3 having the kind of value suggested here is absurd.


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    #1541
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    lertsnim wrote: »
    There is no requirement to carry TV3.

    If Sky are being screwed by UPC then of course they can pull their channels. Why would they allow UPC to screw them?

    The UK has a regulatory body willing to take on Sky. I don't think that we have that here.

    It will never happen anyway as the idea of TV3 having the kind of value suggested here is absurd.

    Tv3 are obligated under Section's 70 & 77 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 to "offer" their channel(s) free of charge to whatever other provider requests them. In turn Sky/UPC cannot charge for "carrying" this content. Its called the must offer/must carry rule.

    It is primarily in the legislation to appease the likes of Sky and UPC who are very good at using the platform neutrality card for free content/an added enticement to snare subscribers.

    Same as RTE and Tg4. Not sure what type licence UTV Ireland have.
    Kerrydude1981 wrote: »
    No,thought it would be like RTE 2 HD and BBC 1 and 2 HD and be free.

    It should be. If Sky give you the run around contact Comreg who can ask TV3 whats is going on.

    One final observation is that if it is found that Tv3 are offering a variation of its service not defined in its "Television programme service contract" as laid down in section 70 of the 2009 Act, how are they doing it ? I am talking of course of providing an exclusive HD version of its output to subscription only companies, and not Saorview....


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    #1542
    Koloman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Koloman


    Confirmation that Saorview is too expensive for them to broadcast HD.

    https://twitter.com/TV3Ireland/status/631492315660447744


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    #1543
    JaCrispy
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭JaCrispy


    Koloman wrote: »
    Confirmation that Saorview is too expensive for them to broadcast HD.

    https://twitter.com/TV3Ireland/status/631492315660447744

    Tv3 putting the blame firmly on RTE. Wonder how much they are charging.


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    #1544
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    JaCrispy wrote: »
    Tv3 putting the blame firmly on RTE. Wonder how much they are charging.
    TV3Verified account ‏@TV3Ireland @seangarvan @dcr22B TV3 has made HD available to @Saorview, however, RTE’s charge to transmit is cost prohibitive to TV3

    The obligation is on TV3 to provide their service FTA to its intended public. Not Saorview.

    They are now providing a service not carried on Saorview to UPC and Sky. So how did they offer this ?

    Wonder what the BAI's view is on all of this ?

    As a taxpayer my view is that the loan write offs that they already received as a commercial operation were prohibitive!


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    #1545
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    BAI have advised that any complaint must be addressed with the broadcaster first before the complaint can be sent to the BAI...


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    #1546
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,434 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    JaCrispy wrote: »
    Tv3 putting the blame firmly on RTE. Wonder how much they are charging.

    The blame is entirely on TV3. They managed to pay €3m a year for analogue carriage of just TV3 but not manage the same for TV3 in HD and 3E in SD. They also managed to wring an structure for charging based on bandwidth. However this now bites them as unused bandwidth is dumped and the broadcasters pay the balance.

    They paid a lot, lot more for RWC than the transmission charges, and they claim they are making money from the RWC. Pity they are not bothering with the Saorview audience.

    TV3 never remember that the state wrote off €80m bad debt owed by TV3 which the state have never done with RTE - quite the reverse (remember Ray Burke). RTE paid for Saorview from their own resources and should be allowed a reasonable return on the investment. TV3 also conveniently forget their income from the sound and vision fund.

    The Minister could sort this very easily.


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    #1547
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,271 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    STB. wrote: »
    One final observation is that if it is found that Tv3 are offering a variation of its service not defined in its "Television programme service contract" as laid down in section 70 of the 2009 Act, how are they doing it ? I am talking of course of providing an exclusive HD version of its output to subscription only companies, and not Saorview....

    Is TG4HD compliant in that regard? IMHO TV3 doing this is bad, but TG4 is worse if anything as it's largely (almost entirely, I'd have thought) publicly funded.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #1548
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,434 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think Oireachtas TV is much worse. They are not even offering their TV service to Saorview but are paying Sky to provide it to their paying customers. Whatever about TV3 and TG4, we actually pay 100% of the costs of OTV, and it is our Dail that make the rules as to who pays and how much for TV coverage.

    An utter disgrace.


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    #1549
    ShaneOC
    Registered Users Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ShaneOC


    from http://www.saorview.ie/news/rte-one-now-in-hd-on-saorview/
    The provision of High Definition services has always been a priority for SAORVIEW. As more and more content is made and broadcast in HD, the attractiveness of SAORVIEW as a high-quality, digital TV offering will continue to grow. Whereas much of the historical content available on the national stations has been made in Standard Definition, the ability to increase its quality digitally for use in HD broadcasting will mean that viewers can experience the best possible picture quality with their subscription-free SAORVIEW TV service.

    While Pay-TV services traditionally charge a premium for access to HD, SAORVIEW will continue to provide a high quality viewer experience to its many viewers nationwide with free HD on both RTÉ channels. And with future upgrades in the pipeline, SAORVIEW remains the best value possible for Irish viewers who want to get the most from their home entertainment options.


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    #1550
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Re: TG4HD: TG4 was given an extra grant from DCENR for its HD service, Meanwhile OTV and IFB cannot get grant for SD services from the same department????


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    #1551
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Elmo wrote: »
    Re: TG4HD: TG4 was given an extra grant from DCENR for its HD service, Meanwhile OTV and IFB cannot get grant for SD services from the same department????

    Houses of the Oireachtas is in reality a government Dept run by a commission which in itself and receives its own funding through Dept Finance
    http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/commission/
    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Is TG4HD compliant in that regard? IMHO TV3 doing this is bad, but TG4 is worse if anything as it's largely (almost entirely, I'd have thought) publicly funded.

    I agree. (TG4 is dual funded, exchequer and adverts)


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    #1552
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    STB. wrote: »
    Houses of the Oireachtas is in reality a government Dept run by a commission which in itself and receives its own funding through Dept Finance
    http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/commission/

    OTV does not have to be run directly by the Oireachtas. If DCENR had thought about it, it could have given a capital grant to TG4 to set up both OTV and IFB, as they did with TG4HD.

    BTW The capital grant was on top of TG4's slice of the license fee and grant in aid funding.


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    #1553
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Elmo wrote: »
    OTV does not have to be run directly by the Oireachtas. If DCENR had thought about it, it could have given a capital grant to TG4 to set up both OTV and IFB, as they did with TG4HD.

    BTW The capital grant was on top of TG4's slice of the license fee and grant in aid funding.

    OTV is run by the Oireachtas!

    The problem is that they expect someone else to pay for it! They have their own exchequer budget.

    Tg4 is an Irish language station. It has no responsibilities in running the Houses of the Oireachtas business.


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    #1554
    ftakeith
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭ftakeith


    if you want tv3hd on saorview

    1. complain to tv3

    2. not happy with their response complain to the BAI

    3 in 2016 tv3hd could be on saorview


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    #1555
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    ftakeith wrote: »
    if you want tv3hd on saorview

    1. complain to tv3

    2. not happy with their response complain to the BAI

    3 in 2016 tv3hd could be on saorview

    Probably unlikely to happen. If tg4 haven't been forced to go onto it why would tv3?


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    #1556
    zefer
    Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭zefer


    ftakeith wrote: »
    if you want tv3hd on saorview

    1. complain to tv3

    2. not happy with their response complain to the BAI

    3 in 2016 tv3hd could be on saorview

    Why do you think that is going to work? Tv3 will blame rtenl carriage costs and rtenl will say it's tv3.
    Nothing the Bai can do about it as tv3 sd will be still available on saorview


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    #1557
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,781 ✭✭✭Apogee


    channelsurfer2 wrote: »
    BAI have advised that any complaint must be addressed with the broadcaster first before the complaint can be sent to the BAI...

    http://www.tv3.ie/contact.php?page=TV3%20Complaints%20Form

    Done!


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    #1558
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    ftakeith wrote: »
    if you want tv3hd on saorview

    1. complain to tv3

    2. not happy with their response complain to the BAI

    3 in 2016 tv3hd could be on saorview

    You have no grounds to complain, TV3 will state that it does not come under the Broadcasting Act 2015. Largely such complaints are about news and current affairs or the airing of an inappropriate subject matter before 9pm.

    Everyone's chance was with the CPCC, as UPC buy the channel, as we pointed out last week.


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    #1559
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,543 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    It doesn't come under the provision. HD is a technical issue not a content issue and technical standards are regulated by Comreg not the BAI.

    The existence of HD simply wasn't contemplated by the drafters of the legislation and because of this, and in the absence of new legislation, it's difficult to argue that TV3 or the platform operators can simply have a HD requirement unilaterally imposed on it by either regulator.


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    #1560
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    icdg wrote: »
    It doesn't come under the provision. HD is a technical issue not a content issue and technical standards are regulated by Comreg not the BAI.

    The existence of HD simply wasn't contemplated by the drafters of the legislation and because of this, and in the absence of new legislation, it's difficult to argue that TV3 or the platform operators can simply have a HD requirement unilaterally imposed on it by either regulator.

    Hopefully the audience will turn to ITV HD.

    Is TV3 HD part of the Sky HD package or just their basic pack/essentials?


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    #1561
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    icdg wrote: »
    It doesn't come under the provision. HD is a technical issue not a content issue and technical standards are regulated by Comreg not the BAI.

    The existence of HD simply wasn't contemplated by the drafters of the legislation and because of this, and in the absence of new legislation, it's difficult to argue that TV3 or the platform operators can simply have a HD requirement unilaterally imposed on it by either regulator.
    BAI have said to me that broadcasters "highlighted in their application that they would be filming in HD in order to increase the quality, and enjoyment by the audiences, of the final programme"

    I am awaiting another response from the BAI whether BAI funded HD programmes can be placed behind the paywall ... it seems to me that broadcasters could have got more money from the fund to cover the cost of HD production which would make a paywall absolutely ridiculous for BAI funded programmes.


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