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The Virgin Media Television thread

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    #1622
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,504 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Ask the ministers involved. Pat Carey signed an SI during his last day in Government that set this whole debacle in motion. The two subsequent Ministers have moved heaven and earth but failed to change any of this. Not since Ray Burke has such effort been put in by a Minister to stymie RTE and its ability to earn money.

    Now is the time for 2RN to be allowed to entice UTVi and TV3 to go HD for a free trial period. It would be hard to return to SD after the trial period.

    I'm not going off on a tangent but I have to address that point.

    I don't have much time for TV3 but maybe RTÉ would have been better off if it hadn't bothered with RTÉ One+1 and RTÉjr.


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    #1623
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Elmo wrote: »
    How have either Minister White or Rabbitte tried to move heaven and earth? I though ComReg was forced by the courts to regulate the price when TV3 complained about 2RN's pricing practices?

    I was being ironic - Rabitte and White have moved heaven and earth so they could do nothing about Saorview. It was Comreg who set up the current charging practice which is utterly uncompetitive. Imagine the courts dictating that all the supermarkets had to work on a 'cost plus' basis? Sounds good until you think about it for a millisecond.

    Remember, RTE own the muxes, and RTE paid for the whole network from their own funds. The commercial companies like TV3 could have built their own network but did not - I wonder why?


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    #1624
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    political analyst wrote: »
    I don't have much time for TV3 but maybe RTÉ would have been better off if it hadn't bothered with RTÉ One+1 and RTÉjr.

    And what would be on Soarview? Digital TV was supposed to give more choice. I said at the very start of all this that DSO/ASO would only amount to

    RTÉ ONE, RTÉ2 (then Network2), TV3 and TG4 with the off chance of Oirechtas TV, and by off chance ... I mean no chance.


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    #1625
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    political analyst wrote: »
    I'm not going off on a tangent but I have to address that point.

    I don't have much time for TV3 but maybe RTÉ would have been better off if it hadn't bothered with RTÉ One+1 and RTÉjr.

    I think that was part of the SI. RTE wanted a separate channel called RTE 3 or RTE Plus to show programmes from their archives. They got the RTE Jr (without adverts) and RTE 1+1 (effectively without adverts). They were not allowed advertising on RTE NN either. So two extra channels with no extra income, that is four channels to pay for instead of two (plus a bigger contribution to TG4). Ray Burke could not even achieve that.


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    #1626
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I think that was part of the SI. RTE wanted a separate channel called RTE 3 or RTE Plus to show programmes from their archives. They got the RTE Jr (without adverts) and RTE 1+1 (effectively without adverts). They were not allowed advertising on RTE NN either. So two extra channels with no extra income, that is four channels to pay for instead of two (plus a bigger contribution to TG4). Ray Burke could not even achieve that.

    In fairness to Carey he made a decision on the proposal that RTÉ submitted to him.

    RTÉ wanted RTÉ Plus to take over from RTÉ ONE +1, he only gave the go ahead for RTÉ ONE +1
    RTÉ wanted RTÉjr without advertising, he gave permission for this.
    RTÉ wanted advertising on RTÉ NN at a later date, he decided no advertising

    Meantime Rabbitte made no decision on RTÉjr.

    Remember TV3 didn't want RTÉ2 HD


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    #1627
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,504 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I was being ironic - Rabitte and White have moved heaven and earth so they could do nothing about Saorview. It was Comreg who set up the current charging practice which is utterly uncompetitive. Imagine the courts dictating that all the supermarkets had to work on a 'cost plus' basis? Sounds good until you think about it for a millisecond.

    Remember, RTE own the muxes, and RTE paid for the whole network from their own funds. The commercial companies like TV3 could have built their own network but did not - I wonder why?
    Why does ComReg not want competition?


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    #1628
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    political analyst wrote: »
    Why does ComReg not want competition?

    TV3 wants no competition - from RTE.


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    #1629
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    TV3 wants no competition - from RTE.

    Also none from UTV Ireland.

    Back to 2RN charges. What do the Sunday Times say about the charges.

    I am getting to differing answers on here

    1. SD cost 1.2million and HD cost 1.4million
    2. SD cost 1million and HD cost 3million


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    #1630
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    Elmo wrote: »
    Also none from UTV Ireland.

    Back to 2RN charges. What do the Sunday Times say about the charges.

    I am getting to differing answers on here

    1. SD cost 1.2million and HD cost 1.4million
    2. SD cost 1million and HD cost 3million

    Hd costs 3 million.
    Sd costs1.4 million
    Cost to tv3 3 million minus the sd charrge of 1.4 million. So cost of hd channel replacing sd channel is 1.6 million.


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    #1631
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    gordongekko wrote: »
    Hd costs 3 million.
    Sd costs1.4 million
    Cost to tv3 3 million minus the sd charrge of 1.4 million. So cost of hd channel replacing sd channel is 1.6 million.

    It is a bit more complicated than that.

    2RN get a bit less than €12 million for running the two muxes. It is divided up according to bandwidth used ignoring unused bandwidth. If TV3, UTVi and TG4 all went HD, then the charge for each would not be more than €2m each, compared to €1.4m for SD (if that is what they pay now). TV3 would also see a reduction for the transmission charges for 3E as more bandwidth would be used overall- but the overall charges for TV3 would be more than currently charged.

    2RN should be allowed to negotiate charges.


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    #1632
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,523 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    2RN should be allowed to negotiate charges.

    The network capital and running costs remain the same, if one broadcaster get a reduction the others pay more. The current tariff structure ensures the charges are fair and transparent and no behind the door deals are done.

    The broadcast transmission market here is regarded as having SMP and so the tariffs are regulated under EU legislation via a Comreg decision.


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    #1633
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    The article also claimed that tv3 never approached 2rn about putting the hd channel on saorview.


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    #1634
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Cush wrote: »
    The network capital and running costs remain the same, if one broadcaster get a reduction the others pay more. The current tariff structure ensures the charges are fair and transparent and no behind the door deals are done.

    The broadcast transmission market here is regarded as having SMP and so the tariffs are regulated under EU legislation via a Comreg decision.

    That is true but there should be the ability for 2RN to adjust their tariffs to suit their future business, for example - allow a transition tariff for broadcasters that go HD.

    These tariffs need not be behind the door, and should be transparent, unlike the deals done by RTE and TV3 with Sky which are far from transparent.


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    #1635
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    gordongekko wrote: »
    The article also claimed that tv3 never approached 2rn about putting the hd channel on saorview.

    I guessed that.


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    #1636
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,523 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    - allow a transition tariff for broadcasters that go HD.

    A reduced HD bitrate charge means an increased SD bitrate charge, someone has to pay.


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    #1637
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    No, currently at least two HD channels are thrown away in unused bitrate so offering a transition will not affect current charges. In the long term it will mean lower charges for everyone's current use as more bitrate will get charges for and so average bitrate charges will be less.

    There was no need to charge for bittate - it could be charged out at so much for SD and so much for HD.

    They could also make Standard Definition to now mean 720or704 by 576 instead of 544 by 576. That alone would improve perceived resolution enormously.


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    #1638
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Why don't 2RN meet with TG4, TV3 and UTV Ireland tell them that they should consider HD as it would only increase cost if they all go to HD on Saorview by 200,000

    When you think about it if TG4, TV3 and 3e had gone HD UTV Ireland wouldn't have been able to appear on Saorview as it would be unlike that 2RN would open a 3rd mux for one channel.

    Think it is time that RTE put RTEjr, +1 and NN in HD on Saorview.


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    #1639
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Elmo wrote: »
    Why don't 2RN meet with TG4, TV3 and UTV Ireland tell them that they should consider HD as it would only increase cost if they all go to HD on Saorview by 200,000

    When you think about it if TG4, TV3 and 3e had gone HD UTV Ireland wouldn't have been able to appear on Saorview as it would be unlike that 2RN would open a 3rd mux for one channel.

    Think it is time that RTE put RTEjr, +1 and NN in HD on Saorview.

    No, if 2RN run out of room on two muxes, they automaticaly open a third and then a fourth. I think RTE could drop RTE NN as it is useless to them as it generates no revenue but cost them lots.

    If 2RN said to TG4, TV3, and UTVi they can have mux 2 for themselves at €6m per an, and divide it up among themselves then they could all go HD @ 6mb/s, and SD @ 2mb/s. The SD needs 2.5mb/s so maybe only two SD channels, but HD would cost only €1.6m per year, with two SD channels costing €600k per an. This wuld only work if RTE would fit on one mux - 2 HD @6mb plus 2 SD @ 2.5mb leaves about 6mb/s for radio - should fit. It would allow them crank up HD for RTE 2 during sports broadcasts.

    There needs to be action from the Minister as none of this will happen with the dead hands of the civil service on it.


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    #1640
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    No, if 2RN run out of room on two muxes, they automaticaly open a third and then a fourth. I think RTE could drop RTE NN as it is useless to them as it generates no revenue but cost them lots.

    If 2RN said to TG4, TV3, and UTVi they can have mux 2 for themselves at €6m per an, and divide it up among themselves then they could all go HD @ 6mb/s, and SD @ 2mb/s. The SD needs 2.5mb/s so maybe only two SD channels, but HD would cost only €1.6m per year, with two SD channels costing €600k per an. This wuld only work if RTE would fit on one mux - 2 HD @6mb plus 2 SD @ 2.5mb leaves about 6mb/s for radio - should fit. It would allow them crank up HD for RTE 2 during sports broadcasts.

    There needs to be action from the Minister as none of this will happen with the dead hands of the civil service on it.

    Would that mean the opening up of a third mux as there would be no spare capacity which would result in increased charges for all?


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    #1641
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    If TV3 are owned by Liberty Global they can bloody pay up!


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    #1642
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    If TV3 are owned by Liberty Global they can bloody pay up!

    Not yet.


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    #1643
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    gordongekko wrote: »
    Would that mean the opening up of a third mux as there would be no spare capacity which would result in increased charges for all?

    The budget for a mux is 24mbits/s. 6 mb per HD and 2.5 mb for SD. Detailed planning is needed. RTE run the multiplexor, with 2RN doing the transmission. RTE use a statistical multiplexor which allows much more flexibility.

    Currently we have the following.
    RTE 1 HD 6 mb
    RTE 2 HD 6 mb
    RTE jr/ RTE 1+1 2.5 mb
    RTE NN 2.5 mb
    TV3 2.5 mb
    3E 2.5 mb
    UTVi 2.5 mb
    TG4 2.5 mb
    Radio 8 by 125k 1.5 mb


    This totals 28.5 mb/s which is just over 1 mux - 2SD channels over.

    RTE would easily fit on one mux - they currently only use about 18.5 mb/s, but they would need headroom, but could also accommodate OTV.

    The 'commercial' mux (TV3, TG4, UTVi, 3E) could accommodate 3 HD and 2 SD channels.

    It makes sense.


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    #1644
    lertsnim
    Registered Users Posts: 9,736 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    I notice on Saorview that TV3 has HD on the EPG for tonights Manchester United match on Saorview. Oh TV3 you tease.

    It is odd though why they would put that on the EPG for a SD only service while on satellite where it is HD it's not there at all


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    #1645
    ftakeith
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭ftakeith


    lertsnim wrote: »
    I notice on Saorview that TV3 has HD on the EPG for tonights Manchester United match on Saorview. Oh TV3 you tease.

    It is odd though why they would put that on the EPG for a SD only service while on satellite where it is HD it's not there at all

    For non setanta pack customers on UPC and fta freesat/saorview customers, TV3 is going to gain loads of viewers for their live champions league games and 2015 RWC live games


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    #1646
    lertsnim
    Registered Users Posts: 9,736 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    ftakeith wrote: »
    For non setanta pack customers on UPC and fta freesat/saorview customers, TV3 is going to gain loads of viewers for their live champions league games and 2015 RWC live games

    I don't see what that has to do with what I posted but yes TV3 will see an increase in viewers for the Champions League.


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    #1647
    galtee boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    lertsnim wrote: »
    I notice on Saorview that TV3 has HD on the EPG for tonights Manchester United match on Saorview. Oh TV3 you tease.

    It is odd though why they would put that on the EPG for a SD only service while on satellite where it is HD it's not there at all

    It is flagged as HD on Sky. On my Sky Epg, it's highlighted in yellow and programme info is HD, W.


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    #1648
    lertsnim
    Registered Users Posts: 9,736 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    galtee boy wrote: »
    It is flagged as HD on Sky. On my Sky Epg, it's highlighted in yellow and programme info is HD, W.

    Yes I know it does but I am talking about the written programme synopsis. On Saorview it says (HD) in brackets as part of the synopsis which is rather stupid unless they plan on surprising everyone and launching HD before this evening.


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    #1649
    Jpmarn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Jpmarn


    lertsnim wrote: »
    I notice on Saorview that TV3 has HD on the EPG for tonights Manchester United match on Saorview. Oh TV3 you tease.

    It is odd though why they would put that on the EPG for a SD only service while on satellite where it is HD it's not there at all

    Ireland AM is also flagged as HD on the Saorview EPG.


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    #1650
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    If anyone spots the ball give me a PM.


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    #1651
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Not sure if it's a Champions League thing but the "HD" DOG seems to be constantly on tonight and not being removed and added with the TV3 logo.

    Nice set though.


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