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Season 4 Episode 5 "First of His Name": *HAVEN'T* Read The Books

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    #152
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    K_user wrote: »
    If you don't like it, talk about something that interests you, rather than bad mouthing others.

    Its easy to slate the conversation from behind the couch.
    And quite hilarious in that he hasn't managed to contribute a single post on his precious fundamental story arcs in this whole thread... just 4 moans.


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    #153
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    K_user wrote: »
    I've shown my 12 year old a few bits and pieces. Mainly the stuff with Dragons and a couple of the less graphic fight scenes.

    But there isn't a chance in hell I'd let him watch a full episode.

    Funnily enough, that is the age where I'd draw the line. I think any almost any kind of media is suitable for a 14 year old. Its worth noting that I'm not a parent so you can ignore my opinion :pac:


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    #154
    K_user
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    And quite hilarious in that he hasn't managed to contribute a single post on his precious fundamental story arcs in this whole thread... just 4 moans.

    :D


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    #155
    K_user
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Grimebox wrote: »
    Funnily enough, that is the age where I'd draw the line. I think any almost any kind of media is suitable for a 14 year old. Its worth noting that I'm not a parent so you can ignore my opinion :pac:
    Its surprising what a child can watch and not bat an eye lid at. But as the adult you have to draw the line.

    Its common sense stuff. A Dragon is CGI, its cool for a 12 year old. A man having his head repeatedly slammed into a knife...not so much! :p


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    #156
    ben.schlomo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,984 ✭✭✭✭ben.schlomo


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    And quite hilarious in that he hasn't managed to contribute a single post on his precious fundamental story arcs in this whole thread... just 4 moans.
    K_user wrote: »
    :D

    Between the inanity of many of the posts and the few that sum things up well i didnt find the need to add anything specific in terms of storyline from this episode, you will have seen my opinions in other episode threads if you wish to view them so desperately. Have ye figured out whos sword is longer yet? ;) I'll leave it there with you two.

    On topic, the Pod and Brienne story looks like its gonna be dragged out, hopefully they do what theyre doing quickly or come a cropper on the way.


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    #157
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    ben.schlomo wrote: »
    Between the inanity of many of the posts and the few that sum things up well i didnt find the need to add anything specific in terms of storyline from this episode, you will have seen my opinions in other episode threads if you wish to view them so desperately. Have ye figured out whos sword is longer yet? ;) I'll leave it there with you two.

    On topic, the Pod and Brienne story looks like its gonna be dragged out, hopefully they do what theyre doing quickly or come a cropper on the way.

    Agree with this. I realize a lot of people enjoy the "Pod & Brienne show" but I find it cringeworthy really.


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    #158
    Dubh Geannain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    So, it's now clear that Littlefinger was behind Aryan's death.

    What had the Book of Kings (I think that's what it was called) got to do with anything then? Was Littlefinger involved in getting the book to Ned Stark, because I can't remember? If I recall it was implied Aryan found out about Joffery's questionable parentage and that was why the Lannisters killed him.


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    #159
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Dubh Geannain wrote: »
    So, it's now clear that Littlefinger was behind Aryan's death.

    What had the Book of Kings (I think that's what it was called) got to do with anything then? Was Littlefinger involved in getting the book to Ned Stark, because I can't remember? If I recall it was implied Aryan found out about Joffery's questionable parentage and that was why the Lannisters killed him.

    Littlefinger needed the Lannisters to have a motive. Jon Arryn finding out about Jofffery was a motive. He knew Ned would act upon this. Whether Jon Aaryn actual ever had the book and was in the process of finding out is somewhat irrelevant.


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    #160
    gazzamc
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭gazzamc


    You do realise that he was still recovering from those arrows he took... They emphasised this when he was removing his armour a few eps back.. I'm sure the pain played a big part as well as the long sword indoors..

    I agree somewhat as I was eager to see him win the fight.. Some food for thought.
    K_user wrote: »
    Yes, but Arya, Dany, Robb, Joff and Theon, are/were meant to be young as well.

    While in training for the Nights Watch there was a whole thing about how Jon was the best recruit there. On how his training as a young lord set him apart.

    Granted Karl was an experienced fighter, you would have expected him to be tough. But I felt the end was still more of a "overkill" moment. To me Jon didn't come out a "hero", more of a guy who got lucky and out of desperation went for the most drastic kill shot he could. Can't imagine Ned approving of the move.

    Bronn would have loved it though. What was it that he said? You want to fight pretty or you want to win?

    Which I think is a running theme in the show. Robb and Ned fought fair. Tywin and Stannis do not.


    Either way, IMHO, it was Jon's big moment and he kinda flopped.


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    #161
    Dubh Geannain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    bren2001 wrote: »
    Littlefinger needed the Lannisters to have a motive. Jon Arryn finding out about Jofffery was a motive. He knew Ned would act upon this. Whether Jon Aaryn actual ever had the book and was in the process of finding out is somewhat irrelevant.

    Yes but my main question was, was it Littfinger presented Ned with the book because I can't remember.


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    #162
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    bren2001 wrote: »
    Littlefinger needed the Lannisters to have a motive. Jon Arryn finding out about Jofffery was a motive. He knew Ned would act upon this. Whether Jon Aaryn actual ever had the book and was in the process of finding out is somewhat irrelevant.
    It's very relevant. The blacksmith sold Gendry to the Night's Watch because both Ned and Jon Aryan came around asking questions about him. The blacksmith figured Gendry was trouble and got rid of him. If he hadn't, the Goldcloaks would've killed him when Joffrey ordered them to kill all of Robert's bastards.


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    #163
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Bart Mars wrote: »
    And what the hell happened to that lad in yhe box the baldy chaped with no balls had delivered to him last season !
    It's not shown but it is implied that Vary's slowly tortures him to death. He's the guy who cut off Vary's meat and two veg and Vary's has spent years looking for him.


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    #164
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Dubh Geannain wrote: »
    Yes but my main question was, was it Littfinger presented Ned with the book because I can't remember.

    Littlefinger points Ned in the direction of Gendry and another of Roberts b@stards (who ends up being killed by the Mountain jousting). He then learns through Varys, there are more. He goes to Pycell and asks him about the death where he learns Jon was reading the Book of Kings.

    Nowhere does it suggest Littlefinger had a role in him getting the book. Maybe it is something we are too assume maybe there is more to it.


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    #165
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,472 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    bren2001 wrote: »
    Littlefinger points Ned in the direction of Gendry and another of Roberts b@stards (who ends up being killed by the Mountain jousting)

    He wasn't Robert's son, he was Jon Arryn's squire; Ser Hugh of the Vale.


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    #166
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    It's very relevant. The blacksmith sold Gendry to the Night's Watch because both Ned and Jon Aryan came around asking questions about him. The blacksmith figured Gendry was trouble and got rid of him. If he hadn't, the Goldcloaks would've killed him when Joffrey ordered them to kill all of Robert's bastards.

    I meant in relation to the question asked. Jon knowing about Joffery and enquiring is important of course.
    Blay wrote: »
    He wasn't Robert's son, he was Jon Arryn's squire; Ser Hugh of the Vale.

    That right. Can be hard to remember the smaller details sometimes.


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    #167
    K_user
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    gazzamc wrote: »
    You do realise that he was still recovering from those arrows he took... They emphasised this when he was removing his armour a few eps back.. I'm sure the pain played a big part as well as the long sword indoors..
    Which kind of makes it worse!

    A wounded man leading an important mission against known foes and he puts himself in a position where his sword is least effective.

    The 7 must have been watching over him, because there is no other way he was walking out of that one alive! :D
    gazzamc wrote: »
    I agree somewhat as I was eager to see him win the fight.. Some food for thought.
    Its not a big thing. I just believe that the Jon character needs something more. He has moped alot. He has reacted to what has happened around him. But he doesn't seem to drive the story forward. Compared to Robb, who had a sense of purpose, there is something lacking.

    A big fight scene, like the Hounds chicken fight, would have really given him the edge he needs.


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    #168
    K_user
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    bren2001 wrote: »
    Nowhere does it suggest Littlefinger had a role in him getting the book. Maybe it is something we are too assume maybe there is more to it.
    It could be that Little Finger deliberately got the ball rolling and made sure it stayed rolling. Any interference afterwards, or pushing the matter too much, would raise suspicions.


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    #169
    Bacchus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    K_user wrote: »
    Its surprising what a child can watch and not bat an eye lid at. But as the adult you have to draw the line.

    Its common sense stuff. A Dragon is CGI, its cool for a 12 year old. A man having his head repeatedly slammed into a knife...not so much! :p

    Not judging, but is that (the bit I've highlighted) not the problem. That children watching a show like this are being desensitised to violence at an age where they are still developing into the adult they will grow to be.

    I was shocked to hear my 15 year old nephew watches the show. He's mature enough for though but I was initially shocked and if he was a year or two younger and I'd be the assh*le uncle having a word with his parents (they don't watch the show) :p


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    #170
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    What exactly do you expect to happen if a 12 year old watches GoT? This debate doesn't really suit this thread.


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    #171
    NinjaTruncs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,453 ✭✭✭NinjaTruncs


    K_user wrote: »
    Which kind of makes it worse!

    A wounded man leading an important mission against known foes and he puts himself in a position where his sword is least effective.

    But it was only Jon who saw it as so important, remember the acting lord commander only allowed Jon to bring volunteers with him on the mission, if it had of been seen as an important mission such a condition wouldn't have been set.

    4.3kWp South facing PV System. South Dublin



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    #172
    K_user
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Bacchus wrote: »
    Not judging, but is that (the bit I've highlighted) not the problem. That children watching a show like this are being desensitised to violence at an age where they are still developing into the adult they will grow to be.

    I was shocked to hear my 15 year old nephew watches the show. He's mature enough for though but I was initially shocked and if he was a year or two younger and I'd be the assh*le uncle having a word with his parents (they don't watch the show) :p

    I'd be shocked at a 15 year old watching it too. And I, as a parent of two, am surprised that his parents aren't keeping one eye on what he's watching. But each to their own. He that casts the first stones and all that. I'm sure other parents would tut-tut at some of the stuff that I do.

    Desensitisation (sp?) is an issue, more now than ever. Violent and sexual images are everywhere. Its down to individuals on how to monitor it.

    GOT is a great show. I've even got my wife to watch a couple of episodes. Granted she was more confused than ever about the whole thing. :D But, IMHO, its not for kids.


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    #173
    K_user
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    NinjaTruncs wrote: »
    But it was only Jon who saw it as so important, remember the acting lord commander only allowed Jon to bring volunteers with him on the mission, if it had of been seen as an important mission such a condition wouldn't have been set.

    Jon is the only one who knows the scale of the danger coming, having witnessed it first hand.

    He said himself that there have been many attacks in the past, and none have been successful. So you can understand that the older Watchmen would be more complacent.

    The Wildlings have no idea how many there are in the Watch. They aren't sure on which of the towers are guarded. They have no idea that the south is at war. As far as they know there is an army of Starks banner men waiting to enforce the Wall. It has always been advantage to the defenders.

    And Thorne only agreed to let Jon go because he was advised on how popular Snow was getting. If he were to fail, politically, Jon would be finished. If he succeeded then Thorne would be able to spin that it was his own masterful strategy that led to the victory against the traitors.


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    #174
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    Dubh Geannain wrote: »
    So, it's now clear that Littlefinger was behind Aryan's death.

    What had the Book of Kings (I think that's what it was called) got to do with anything then? Was Littlefinger involved in getting the book to Ned Stark, because I can't remember? If I recall it was implied Aryan found out about Joffery's questionable parentage and that was why the Lannisters killed him.
    bren2001 wrote: »
    Littlefinger needed the Lannisters to have a motive. Jon Arryn finding out about Jofffery was a motive. He knew Ned would act upon this. Whether Jon Aaryn actual ever had the book and was in the process of finding out is somewhat irrelevant.
    Dubh Geannain wrote: »
    Yes but my main question was, was it Littfinger presented Ned with the book because I can't remember.
    bren2001 wrote: »
    Littlefinger points Ned in the direction of Gendry and another of Roberts b@stards (who ends up being killed by the Mountain jousting). He then learns through Varys, there are more. He goes to Pycell and asks him about the death where he learns Jon was reading the Book of Kings.

    Nowhere does it suggest Littlefinger had a role in him getting the book. Maybe it is something we are too assume maybe there is more to it.

    given the scope of his revealed scheming, it's not beyond the possibility that Littlefinger might have had a role in Arryn finding out about Joffrey/Cersei-Jamie. Which would be kind of cool, because then he literally orchestrated everything, rather than taking advantage of an emerging situation.


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    #175
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    K_user wrote: »
    Which kind of makes it worse!

    A wounded man leading an important mission against known foes and he puts himself in a position where his sword is least effective.

    The 7 must have been watching over him, because there is no other way he was walking out of that one alive! :D


    Its not a big thing. I just believe that the Jon character needs something more. He has moped alot. He has reacted to what has happened around him. But he doesn't seem to drive the story forward. Compared to Robb, who had a sense of purpose, there is something lacking.

    A big fight scene, like the Hounds chicken fight, would have really given him the edge he needs.

    Jon's character and premise has always been infinitely more interesting than Robb's. He was basically Nedd Lite, the poor soul.


    The episode was mainly good but GoT continues at its farcically slow pace switching between about a million mini-shows, most of which take place on a random road in a random corner of the world. We got the Littlefinger revelation that last little or no immediate consequence but besides that it was just character building stuff.

    The Arya/Hound stuff is starting to grate especially now that Arya's revealed she's still not gotten to the obvious end-point of their interaction, that the Hound isn't on her somewhat childish death list. Cue more GoT training scenes.


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    #176
    2ndcoming
    Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    Syferus wrote: »
    The Arya/Hound stuff is starting to grate especially now that Arya's revealed she's still not gotten to the obvious end-point of their interaction, that the Hound isn't on her somewhat childish death list. Cue more GoT training scenes.

    Well to be fair she is, you know, a child.


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    #177
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    2ndcoming wrote: »
    Well to be fair she is, you know, a child.

    It's very much at odds with the world weary and relatively grounded person they've presented Arya as. It's become a trope and tropes are not something I expect from GoT. I'm sure she'll kill some of the people on that list in the future, but c'mon now, you don't need to have her reciting a list every three scenes.


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    #178
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Syferus wrote: »
    It's very much at odds with the world weary and relatively ground person they've presented Arya as. It's be come a trope and tropes are not something Si expect from GoT. I'm sure she'll kills one of the people on that list in the future, but c'mon now.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/GameOfThrones
    LOL, nope, no tropes here! Move along! :)


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    #179
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Graphic on-screen rape and crucified children? Definitely 18s.

    Graphic on screen rape - Irreversible, A Serbian Film, even Eye for an eye

    I have trouble putting that Castors Keep scene in the same category


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    #180
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    kryogen wrote: »
    Graphic on screen rape - Irreversible, A Serbian Film, even Eye for an eye

    I have trouble putting that Castors Keep scene in the same category

    Irreversible is a film I cannot recommend to anyone ever. It truly left a mark on me for all the wrong reasons. It made me feel physically ill and was made to do so. GoT doesn't come close.


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    #181
    K_user
    Registered Users Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Syferus wrote: »
    Jon's character and premise has always been infinitely more interesting than Robb's. He was basically Nedd Lite, the poor soul.
    Infinitely?

    Jon premise, presumably, is as a foil to the eventual attacks against the wall. So the wildlings and the white walkers are his big story arcs. Depending on how these develop story wise, thats 7 books of sitting around and waiting.

    Robb was all about taking action now.

    Premise wise, they were/are very different.
    Syferus wrote: »
    The episode was mainly good but GoT continues at its farcically slow pace switching between about a million mini-shows, most of which take place on a random road in a random corner of the world. We got the Littlefinger revelation that last little or no immediate consequence but besides that it was just character building stuff.
    The story is very divided, just like things are in life. Its not about good v's evil. Its a story that is told from many points of view and lets the viewer/reader pick their own sides. I like the fractured way that it develops.
    Syferus wrote: »
    The Arya/Hound stuff is starting to grate especially now that Arya's revealed she's still not gotten to the obvious end-point of their interaction, that the Hound isn't on her somewhat childish death list. Cue more GoT training scenes.
    I strongly suspect that most people would hold massive grudges against the people that killed their family. :D

    Is it childish to want to take revenge? The girl might have a reason to constantly vent, after all her whole family have been wiped out and her life as a nobles daughter has been completely destroyed along with her future...


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