Season 4 Episode 5 "First of His Name": *HAVE* read the books

FunLover18

celica00 wrote: »

you are right, I think it is out of the timeline a bit.
But I'm afraid it won't work otherwise, especially if you think about people who don't know it any better (if they didnt read the books)?

I find it frustrating. I can't believe there isn't a way to tell the story chronologically, even if it means we don't see characters for a while. I suppose budget comes into it, but they haven't even touched on the Greyjoys in ages and they could be building that stuff up. Anyway it's my problem (I haven't seen anyone else complaining) so I'm just going to have to learn to live with it

FunLover18

FunLover18 wrote: »

OK apologies if this has already been covered (and I know I keep harping on about it) but can anyone make sense of the timelines? There's no way that Locke got to The Wall, made his vows, and then out to Craster's in the space of three weeks!! On the same note it's extremely doubtful that news of Tommen's coronation would cross the Narrow Sea and all the way to Meereen in the space of a week, even in the books news never travelled that fast. I'm just going to go into every episode assuming that events are not occurring parallel to each other.

I assume there was a while between the death and the coronation, and that she only knows about the death and they've assumed the coronation as it's the next logical step?

Paddy Cow

FunLover18 wrote: »

OK apologies if this has already been covered (and I know I keep harping on about it) but can anyone make sense of the timelines? There's no way that Locke got to The Wall, made his vows, and then out to Craster's in the space of three weeks!! On the same note it's extremely doubtful that news of Tommen's coronation would cross the Narrow Sea and all the way to Meereen in the space of a week, even in the books news never travelled that fast. I'm just going to go into every episode assuming that events are not occurring parallel to each other.

He could have. He was only at Castle Black a couple of days and took his vows so he could go to Craster's, which was 60 miles (roughly two days) from CB. This gives him two and 1/2 weeks to get to the wall which is doable.

Michael D Not Higgins

Paddy Cow wrote: »

He could have. He was only at Castle Black a couple of days and took his vows so he could go to Craster's, which was 60 miles (roughly two days) from CB. This gives him two and 1/2 weeks to get to the wall which is doable.

He was at the Dreadfort which I estimate is roughly 500-600 miles away from Castle Black based on the wall being 300 miles long. He could get to Castle Black in a week on horseback if he was determined enough.

As for the news travelling, they send ravens with messages. Now I'm estimating the distance from KL to Meereen at 2000 miles. Apparently a raven can fly approx 25mph. Let's say there's a chain of them between cities, time for the person reading the note, passing it on, etc. It's probably a week to get the news of the death of Joffrey. All easily doable in the timeframe.

FunLover18

Well, I've never been more glad to be wrong

Paddy Cow

bluewolf wrote: »

I assume there was a while between the death and the coronation, and that she only knows about the death and they've assumed the coronation as it's the next logical step?

Probably two weeks, that seems to be their time frame of decency. Tywin and Cersei were discussing what would be the appropriate amount of time for Tommen to grieve before marrying Margery and they settled on two weeks. Two weeks after that Cersei is supposed to marry Loras.

Nerdlingr

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

He was at the Dreadfort which I estimate is roughly 500-600 miles away from Castle Black based on the wall being 300 miles long. He could get to Castle Black in a week on horseback if he was determined enough.

He'd want to take care of his horse though, going at that speed !

celica00

FunLover18 wrote: »

I find it frustrating. I can't believe there isn't a way to tell the story chronologically, even if it means we don't see characters for a while. I suppose budget comes into it, but they haven't even touched on the Greyjoys in ages and they could be building that stuff up. Anyway it's my problem (I haven't seen anyone else complaining) so I'm just going to have to learn to live with it

let's see what the rest of the season brings, maybe it makes aaaaaall sense and they are building up (somehow) like when it happened with the red wedding

Michael D Not Higgins

Nerdlingr wrote: »

He'd want to take care of his horse though, going at that speed !

It's only twice a person's walking speed for 12 hours a day. Doable and therefore not inconsistent.

Edit: He could also have been going faster and had somewhere to change his horse along the way.

TimeToShine

FunLover18 wrote: »

I find it frustrating. I can't believe there isn't a way to tell the story chronologically, even if it means we don't see characters for a while. I suppose budget comes into it, but they haven't even touched on the Greyjoys in ages and they could be building that stuff up. Anyway it's my problem (I haven't seen anyone else complaining) so I'm just going to have to learn to live with it

It would be pretty cool to have the last scene as Balon being killed and Euron emerging instead of LS but I don't think it would hit home with the readers without building him up for a while first. A refresher on the three leeches from Stannis in the same episode might help.

Still a lot of stuff to happen and only 5 episodes to do it!

Hotale.com

FunLover18 wrote: »

OK apologies if this has already been covered (and I know I keep harping on about it) but can anyone make sense of the timelines? There's no way that Locke got to The Wall, made his vows, and then out to Craster's in the space of three weeks!! On the same note it's extremely doubtful that news of Tommen's coronation would cross the Narrow Sea and all the way to Meereen in the space of a week, even in the books news never travelled that fast. I'm just going to go into every episode assuming that events are not occurring parallel to each other.

Even in the books certain events aren't happening parallel to each other I think, isn't there a chapter in AFFC happening before Joffrey's death? I think he has a note at the start of one of the books about the timeline not necessarily being chronological, and I don't think he was just talking about the geographical split of ADWD/AFFC.

Hotale.com

TimeToShine wrote: »

It would be pretty cool to have the last scene as Balon being killed and Euron emerging instead of LS but I don't think it would hit home with the readers without building him up for a while first. A refresher on the three leeches from Stannis in the same episode might help.

Still a lot of stuff to happen and only 5 episodes to do it!

Is LS Lady Stoneheart?

TimeToShine

Hotale.com wrote: »

Is LS Lady Stoneheart?

Yes indeed.

December2012

Hotale.com wrote: »

Even in the books certain events aren't happening parallel to each other I think, isn't there a chapter in AFFC happening before Joffrey's death? I think he has a note at the start of one of the books about the timeline not necessarily being chronological, and I don't think he was just talking about the geographical split of ADWD/AFFC.

The way I see it is this - you are following stories, so the next scene is the next event in that story. Some people have weeks, days or hours between scenes.

They are all different to each other and that reflects real life -- we all move at different paces. It's a bit of an annoyance of mine how on "normal" TV everybody's stories are divided into neat and convenient weeks.

Hotale.com wrote: »

Is LS Lady Stoneheart?

Yep.

Hotale.com

TimeToShine wrote: »

Yes indeed.

I got confused, thought you meant we'd see Lady Stoneheart emerging after her actually killing Balon, I was wondering if we were reading different books :pac:

Mr Freeze

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

As for the news travelling, they send ravens with messages. Now I'm estimating the distance from KL to Meereen at 2000 miles. Apparently a raven can fly approx 25mph. Let's say there's a chain of them between cities, time for the person reading the note, passing it on, etc. It's probably a week to get the news of the death of Joffrey. All easily doable in the timeframe.

Pretty sure the raven's aren't used to communicate between Westeros and Essos.

Now, maybe the likes of Varys do (when he used to communicate with Jorah), but I'd say its very uncommon, in the books most news between Westeros and Essos was mostly brought by sailors telling tales.

TimeToShine

Hotale.com wrote: »

I got confused, thought you meant we'd see Lady Stoneheart emerging after her actually killing Balon, I was wondering if we were reading different books :pac:

My mistake, I didn't phrase it very well. I meant that the Balon bridge scene would potentially be a better season finale than the re-animation of Cat - depending on how it's built up.

Hotale.com

TimeToShine wrote: »

My mistake, I didn't phrase it very well. I meant that the Balon bridge scene would potentially be a better season finale than the re-animation of Cat - depending on how it's built up.

Would this be more theory debunking? Do we even know for sure that Balon died? GRRM quite likes bringing characters back from the dead...

Hyzepher

TimeToShine wrote: »

It would be pretty cool to have the last scene as Balon being killed and Euron emerging instead of LS but I don't think it would hit home with the readers without building him up for a while first. A refresher on the three leeches from Stannis in the same episode might help.

Still a lot of stuff to happen and only 5 episodes to do it!

I'm pretty sure that in the TV show Balon is already dead? Did I not hear them rattling off all the dead kings in one of the recent episodes?

Mr Freeze

I don't think TV show Balon is dead yet, it hasn't been mentioned yet.

I think it has to happen off screen too unless they intend to show what happened to him, did he just fall or was he assassinated by Euron or a Faceless Man or someone else.

I'd say it could get mentioned it in the next episode...It possibly being a Greyjoy heavy episode.

bur

What is Emilia Clarke going for in her scenes? They are all so one note, she's giving the exact same delivery no matter the circumstance or who she's talking to. It's really starting to grate. Even one on one with Jorah, you'd think she'd drop the whole regal act for a second.

And she was actually pretty good in season one but it's been downhill since.

Un Croissant

bur wrote: »

What is Emilia Clarke going for in her scenes? They are all so one note, she's giving the exact same delivery no matter the circumstance or who she's talking to. It's really starting to grate. Even one on one with Jorah, you'd think she'd drop the whole regal act for a second.

And she was actually pretty good in season one but it's been downhill since.

It is very - I WILL...! I AM...! Bla bla bla. Very irritating.

jebidiah

Hotale.com wrote: »

Just wondering, are the Wheel of Time books worth reading? I've heard they get average in the middle, and if they're a drag I wouldn't have much interest in starting it :P

Waaaaay off topic, but....

The first six books are without a doubt excellent. Very well paced and exciting. After that there is a bit of a slow down as characters develop and politics come in to play a bit more.

But there are still some excellent parts in those books! One in particular in book 9!

Compared with Asoiaf it is a lot more "fantasy" based, the characters can seem a bit weak/one dimensional when contrasted with those of Westeros but that's not a major fault to be honest.

I personally love them, I think as some others said it was almost a good thing that Sanderson took over for the last three books, I don't like his style but he put new life into them which they kind of needed at that point.

I'd say try the first book, it's a great read and if you like that try the next. I wouldn't dismiss the series based on one or two negative opinions, or comparisons to ASOIAF!

Paddy Cow

jebidiah wrote: »

Waaaaay off topic, but....

One last thing to add, while the books can be massive, which can seem overwhelming to some, they are a very easy read.

fitz

Paddy Cow wrote: »

One last thing to add, while the books can be massive, which can seem overwhelming to some, they are a very easy read.

And if you're looking for something more challenging than ASOIAF, with better writing, a carefully planned out and completed story, and with even more ruthless character deaths, check out Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series.

Makes Georgre RR Martin seem like a kindly old man in terms of what he puts his characters through.

Best series I've ever read, by a long way. Not for everyone, but an incredibly rewarding read.


Back on topic...I understand the diversions they've taken tbh.
Makes Jon and Bran's arcs this season a bit more interesting.
I didn't find the Lysa reveal forced tbh, I just wrote it off as her being a nutbar.

As for LS being the last scene of the season....I hope it is, but 2 of 3 previous seasons have ended with Dany, and I reckon they might do the same with the shepherd 's son's bones reveal, although maybe they'll just include that in the main body of the last episode...I doubt it'll be dramatic enough to end a season on. Could also be Lysa going out the Moon Door as a closer, but I think they'll be missing a trick if they don't use Lady Stoneheart as the final scene.

Mickeroo

Robin Hobb's The Farseer Trilogy, The Liveship Traders Trilogy and The Tawny Man Trilogy. Read them in that order, slow going at first but you won't regret it. Similar enough setting to GoT in many ways. Not good if you're looking for a series that offs characters left right and centre though, Hobb loves her characters and if one dies they usually earn it.

GerB40

Lady Stoneheart is the perfect ending to this season, I honestly can't understand how anyone could even consider any other way to bow out for 9 months. Non book readers will be caught completely off guard, no mention of resurrection nor Catalyn for a whole year and now both collide in a complete head fúck, then BOOM, season over... Viewers will flock to buy the books. Plus if we get to see a load of dead Freys hanging from trees and a Stark responsible for them, people are gonna lose their minds. Stark revenge?? FÚCK YEAH!!!

Paddy Cow

GerB40 wrote: »

Lady Stoneheart is the perfect ending to this season, I honestly can't understand how anyone could even consider any other way to bow out for 9 months. Non book readers will be caught completely off guard, no mention of resurrection nor Catalyn for a whole year and now both collide in a complete head fúck, then BOOM, season over... Viewers will flock to buy the books. Plus if we get to see a load of dead Freys hanging from trees and a Stark responsible for them, people are gonna lose their minds. Stark revenge?? FÚCK YEAH!!!

A LS reveal on it's own is not a cliffhanger. The perfect ending would be LS hanging Pod and Brienne. It would be real wtf moment for non book readers

mrkite77

Sulla Felix wrote: »

With all respect to the dead, Sandersons ghost writing invigorated the series. I haven't finished them all yet, but they're better than they have been since book 4-5.

I've finished them, and yes, Sanderson really helped up the pace a bit. I think it was book 8 or so where 1000 pages described the course of a day and a half. Drove me nuts.

Great, thinking about Sanderson and now all I want is for HBO to start on a Mistborn series.

Sulla Felix

GerB40 wrote: »

Lady Stoneheart is the perfect ending to this season, I honestly can't understand how anyone could even consider any other way to bow out for 9 months. Non book readers will be caught completely off guard, no mention of resurrection nor Catalyn for a whole year and now both collide in a complete head fúck, then BOOM, season over... Viewers will flock to buy the books. Plus if we get to see a load of dead Freys hanging from trees and a Stark responsible for them, people are gonna lose their minds. Stark revenge?? FÚCK YEAH!!!

Dunno. At least some will react the way some book readers did (me included) and just go "ugh, this is getting retarded".