Why do you want/ not want children?

Neyite

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

But why do people assume that if you only have one child, that there are medical reasons why they can't have another. I do worry if people will think that of us cos we haven't had a child after 4 years of marriage, that we can't have one. Especially when people who have got married since us have had a child.

I thought the opposite - that because a couple have none, that it would be assumed they cant have any, but if they have one, then its assumed that they are being selfish in not having more.

Either way, any assumptions bug the fcuk out of me. I know some people consider the kids question as small talk, but it really shouldn't be small talk at all. Talk about current affairs, where you work, film /TV/ music.. anything but a couple's sex life!!

Sunny Dayz

Neyite wrote: »

I thought the opposite - that because a couple have none, that it would be assumed they cant have any, but if they have one, then its assumed that they are being selfish in not having more.

Well with us, I've a child from a previous relationship and at a young age and I don't really plan on going again after 12 years. And it has been said, jokingly, about us not adding to the family being down to himself as I've already had a child!


But I do get your assumption as quoted above. I know of a couple who have one child, but haven't been able to have another since.

dowhatyoulove

I'm currently pregnant and my main bug with people is because it was pretty soon after we've got married, more than I'd say 10 people have asked me if my baby was planned...

Eh fudge off, it's none of your business. It hurts cos we had trouble concieving, people are idiots.

My Sister in law said one of her friends landed up to her when she was in hospital, and while holding her newborn asked her 'when she was planning on having another?'

People are bat-****e crazy if you ask me. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Lavinia

I love children very much, however was not blessed of having them. After 10 years of trying my ex husband and me divorced as he said he wants to try with someone else; we were both healthy and there was not physical reason why we could not have children. Tried 6 times artificially, but nothing came out of it, I let him go.
I admit I was not ready for children in my 20s, thought I better work on improving myself and my life before I have them, so that I can give them more and provide a better life for them than one I had.
They never came to me.
I am not sure why people who are blessed with children are not always aware how blessed they are for having them.
It is perhaps too late for me now to change this. I wish I could.

Parchment

I dont want children - for lots of reasons.

I dont really like children, i dont understand them and i feel awkward around them.

I like having money to do what i want to do and a child would take from that. I love to travel and a child would hinder that. I dont want to lose flexibility in my life - a child would cause that to happen.

I suffered from an eating disorder and i would hate to pass any of that onto my child. The world is a horrible place and full of horrible people who will hurt you and i dont want to cause a child to have to go through all that. I cant imagine being a parent and someone hurting my child.

Sometimes i wish people who have children would think about it as much as those who choose not to have children.

Gatica

Lavinia wrote: »

I love children very much, however was not blessed of having them. After 10 years of trying my ex husband and me divorced as he said he wants to try with someone else; we were both healthy and there was not physical reason why we could not have children. Tried 6 times artificially, but nothing came out of it, I let him go.
I admit I was not ready for children in my 20s, thought I better work on improving myself and my life before I have them, so that I can give them more and provide a better life for them than one I had.
They never came to me.
I am not sure why people who are blessed with children are not always aware how blessed they are for having them.
It is perhaps too late for me now to change this. I wish I could.

Sorry to hear that. Hope you can be in a comfortable place soon where you could try again.
I think kids are a blessing for those who actually want them. I'd imagine it would be quite traumatic otherwise, and not great for the kid either.

Milly33

Not too long married too dowhatyoulove and the once you say it to people I have got so when are ye buying a house and having kids.. Im like mmm there are other things to do..

been toying around at answer this question ye or ne for kids all weekend, and must say I am a lot more open to it than I was before... I think I would like kids for a few reasons, or wait just one kid I want to be able to go out again ...

I think we both like the idea of a kid now that we are wiser! We are the last ones really to have any grandchildren on his side, doesn't mean much like they would be happy to not have any, but I would love to be able to give them that... It is loverly to think also of a mini us, and I think we both have very good traits to give to a child, a little bit of everything. Without that sounding to cocky I think as a couple we have a lot to give....

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

Lady is a tramp

I have one son, and before I got pregnant, I wasn't really sure if I wanted kids. But it's not like we were doing much to prevent it, so I'm not sure why we were surprised when it happened ...

Now that I've had one, I know for sure I want more! Just without the pregnancy part. And definitely without the birth part - that was horrific. Errrmmm ... maybe I should just adopt! I'm single at the moment, so that may be my only option.

Milly33

I would love to adopt think it is a very loverly thing to do. The only thing is we don't exactly have a house or stability at the moment so probably would not work

Lucyfur

Adoption is extremely difficult and extremely expensive too.

Milly33

Oh I know and well it should be I suppose as you are given a child to nuture.. Kinda makes you wonder then when lets say you have a kid yourself, you really don't have to have anything... More responsibility should be taken

Gatica

It shouldn't be. If someone is in a position to adopt a child and give them a good home, it makes sense to enable them to keep the money to do so rather than charging them a load of money that they otherwise could've spent on the child.

meeeeh

I don't think it's that simple. Because Ireland signed Hague convention (which is a good thing) the number of countries from where the adoption is possible significantly diminished and international adoptions fell to almost zero. Irish kids are mostly adopted by the family members. So adopting a child who is not a relative is almost impossible unless there some changes introduced in the last year. Rosita Boland had very good article in IT couple of years ago but it might be only accessible if you are subscriber. This is from Journal:

http://www.thejournal.ie/adoption-ireland-2-1824291-Jan2015/

Malari

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think it's that simple. Because Ireland signed Hague convention (which is a good thing) the number of countries from where the adoption is possible significantly diminished and international adoptions fell to almost zero. Irish kids are mostly adopted by the family members. So adopting a child who is not a relative is almost impossible unless there some changes introduced in the last year. Rosita Boland had very good article in IT couple of years ago but it might be only accessible if you are subscriber. This is from Journal:

http://www.thejournal.ie/adoption-ireland-2-1824291-Jan2015/

So do children in Ireland who are given up for adoption and not taken in by a relative just end up in care or foster homes?

meeeeh

Malari wrote: »

So do children in Ireland who are given up for adoption and not taken in by a relative just end up in care or foster homes?

No, apparently there are virtually none that are not adopted by family. Drop in unwanted pregnancies because of access to contraception, better support for mothers and easier travel for abortion are all welcome but they also limit the number of kids available for adoption.

Most adoptions of Irish kids are older kids whose parents died or are unable to take care of them. Never mind wanting to have kids, how many women would want to go through unwanted pregnancy knowing they will give the child away. I could not do it.

eviltwin

Most adopted children are adopted by family members and that's the way it should be.

Neyite

This is the stats on adoption in Ireland. I cant find it now, but I recall that there were was a tiny figure like 4 Irish children put up for adoption in the last couple of years of that chart above. The rest of the adoption figures were made up of international or familial adoptions.

This articleexplains how long the adoption process takes to even get to the point where you have permission to start looking for a child to adopt. In her case she started the process in 2006, finally receiving her declaration in 2011. That declaration is valid for two years.

With the Hague convention, many of the countries that had children available for adoption (Russia, China, Vietnam etc) are now closed to Irish adopters as are many others.

Then there is the cost of it. The fee to adopt from Bulgaria is €16, 650. From the US it's €10,000 -€12,000 other associated fees and expenses can bump the cost up to €40,000 to €50,000 though.

Addle

eviltwin wrote: »

Most adopted children are adopted by family members and that's the way it should be.

Need parents permission to be adopted so many children spend life with foster family who are never allowed to adopt them.

Neyite

Addle wrote: »

Need parents permission to be adopted so many children spent life with foster family who are never allowed to adopt them.

In our very recent past they overrode or faked the parents permission though. That didn't work out all that well for those involved - apart from the facilitators, they minted it. (I highly recommend the book Banished Babies which gives great detail about adoption in Ireland from the homes and laundries)

There are forced adoptions in the UK where foster families can adopt after a certain length of time. I think I'd really only be comfortable with that if the relationship with the biological parents is well and truly broken down and the child is in a place they consider home with their 'mum' and 'dad'. If they are happy and loved and secure and feel that this is their family I don't know if I could say its the right thing to rip them away from that security to try to bond with a biological parent who has been absent from their lives for so long.

While I understand the huge need that many women and men have to become parents going down the adoption road is extremely difficult.
Apart from there being so few babies in Ireland being placed for adoption and the restrictions in place due to the Hague convention, the psychological implications for both child and parent can be huge.

Prospective adoptive parents need to be made aware of this and do everything they can to ensure their child feels a sense of belonging. Adopted people can have many issues around identity and features of rejection.
Nancy Verrier has written extensively on the impact adoption has on the individual and family.

There are no easy fixes when one wants a child so badly but for whatever reason it's not happening for them naturally. It's heartbreaking to hear of those experiences. Wonderful people who long for a baby but who struggle to make it happen. I can only imagine the ache inside.

Gatica

eviltwin wrote: »

Most adopted children are adopted by family members and that's the way it should be.

I wouldn't agree. Just having blood ties to someone doesn't make them more qualified to take care of a child. The main thing for any child is to have a home they can be happy and safe in. If that happens in their own family, all the better, you'll have the extended family support etc.. However, I would think it's worse to be with a disengaged relative than loving adoptive parents.

meeeeh

Gatica wrote: »

I wouldn't agree. Just having blood dies to someone doesn't make them more qualified to take care of a child. The main thing for any child is to have a home they can be happy and safe in. If that happens in their own family, all the better, you'll have the extended family support etc.. However, I would think it's worse to be with a disengaged relative than loving adoptive parents.

I think in Ireland big percentage of adoptions in the family are when kids are not babies and already have a relationship with other family members. I know of a six year old who was adopted by grandparents after mother was killed in a car accident (girl's father wasn't the most reliable). If relatives are vetted and deemed suitable it is a lot less of a shock than assigning kids to strangers.

Milly33

Milly33 wrote: »

I would love to adopt think it is a very loverly thing to do. The only thing is we don't exactly have a house or stability at the moment so probably would not work

While I understand your view I also think it's rather naive. Couples considering adoption should think long and hard. They should think beyond it being "loverly" and beyond their own need to have a child. As I wrote in my previous post it can leave a lasting psychological impact.

Of course it is important to note the word "can".

eviltwin

Gatica wrote: »

I wouldn't agree. Just having blood ties to someone doesn't make them more qualified to take care of a child. The main thing for any child is to have a home they can be happy and safe in. If that happens in their own family, all the better, you'll have the extended family support etc.. However, I would think it's worse to be with a disengaged relative than loving adoptive parents.

I never said it did but in a situation where there is a suitable person within the family who can provide the links to the child's history then in my mind its a no brainer.

Gatica

Since this a thread about wanting/not wanting children, I would've assumed we were talking about general availability of adoption to those wanting children, not corner cases of fostering older children.

meeeeh

Gatica wrote: »

Since this a thread about wanting/not wanting children, I would've assumed we were talking about general availability of adoption to those wanting children, not corner cases of fostering older children.

And Neyite posted how tiny the amount of adopted Irish kids is. I am not trying to be snarky but it is clear there are basically no Irish kids available for adoption so discussion about general availability is pointless.

CathyMoran

A child is not a commodity, another person has to experience a terrible loss for another person to adopt a child.

I have always wanted children to the extent that only dated men who wanted children but when I was younger adoption seemed to be a great idea and I know a lot of adopted people but my views changed with time and very strong safeguards need to be and are in place to protect the child . I am a 9.5 year cancer survivor and I married my college sweetheart spouse 2 weeks post chemo, I had to fight to get fertility preservation which I did and after 6 horrible miscarriages we had a son then a daughter. For me it is the biggest honor in the world to help someone grow up and when I am with my children I am truly happy, it is better than my wildest dreams. I would consider fostering when mine are a bit older - being a mother defines me.

Gatica

CathyMoran wrote: »

A child is not a commodity, another person has to experience a terrible loss for another person to adopt a child.

Absolutely agree, it's not like owning a chihuahua which has become a hollywoodean fashion accessory (not quite right either).
It should be an option though for someone having an unwanted pregnancy to give their child up for adoption to someone who'd want the child, and be able to care for it properly, without it costing someone 35k to do so. Especially since in Ireland having the child is your only option if you're poor and can't afford UK travel.
Adoption of an unwanted child into a loving home is a wonderful thing to do.

Neyite

CathyMoran wrote: »

A child is not a commodity

This. It really is this simple.

I often think that if I became financially solvent that I'd love to open up my home to foster children. Its a a rose-tinted daydream though. In reality, you have to do it because you want to meet the needs of children, not because of an inner need you feel it will fulfil for you.

Fostering often requires skills and wisdom that go beyond being a well intentioned wanna be mum and dad. Some of the children may have had difficulties at home, delayed learning, or any myriad of attachment issues that need careful and gentle handling.

I agree Gatica that giving a child a stable loving home is a wonderful thing to do but most women who have a crisis pregnancy choose other options because they may not want someone tracking them down in 18 years. The flip side of that is that the adopted lose out on knowing their identity, sense of history, or medical history if the mother chooses to remain anonymous and the get rejected all over again as an adult.