Why do you want/ not want children?

CathyMoran

I am aware that my late mother had PND but it was never treated so she made my life a living nightmare and we were never close. The fear was there that I could subject another human being to the same. I think that i over compensate with my two and am a total walkover but I do have a wonderful relationship with them. I would have another one if we had a surprise but am thrilled with our two. For me parenthood has been amazing but I was incredible scared that I could have been like her.

sadie06

CathyMoran wrote: »

I am aware that my late mother had PND but it was never treated so she made my life a living nightmare and we were never close. The fear was there that I could subject another human being to the same. I think that i over compensate with my two and am a total walkover but I do have a wonderful relationship with them. I would have another one if we had a surprise but am thrilled with our two. For me parenthood has been amazing but I was incredible scared that I could have been like her.

I find your post very moving as a friend of mine is in the exact same situation. Her late mother made her life a living hell, and she hung on for that reconciliation which never really came in earnest. She now is the most loving mother herself, but like you, a bit of a pushover as she is so fearful of resembling her late mother in any way.

Well done on taking that leap of faith. I'm glad it has been so rewarding for you.

Addle

So women don't necessarily turn into their mothers then?
My fear of being just like my mother is one of the reasons I chose not to have children.

CathyMoran

It is a huge fear but it is not always the case. I never identified with my late mother but I did with my dad, it is only in recent years that I have had close female friends, one of whom is like the mother I never had. I feel an extra responsibility because I have a daughter as well as a son and I do not want her to inherit my negative female stereotypes. I am not denying that the severe abuse has not affected me and for years I used to wake up with nightmares about all the horrors I encountered but giving my children the life that I never had has healed a lot.

mocha please!

Addle wrote: »

So women don't necessarily turn into their mothers then?
My fear of being just like my mother is one of the reasons I chose not to have children.

I'd like to just say ... as someone currently suffering from various serious post-natal mental disorders, it hasn't ever made me regret having my son, and I have NEVER for a second resented him in any way for it. And we do have a great bond, and he adores me! And I adore him. I can absolutely separate the fact that I'm ill now from my relationship with him. And my focus is to get well again, no different than if it were cancer or any other illness. And I will get better. I firmly believe that, as do my care providers.

My mother had several children and never had a touch of PND or anything like it. So, no, you don't always turn out like your mother. And even if you did, everything is treatable.

mocha please!

mocha please! wrote: »

I'd like to just say ... as someone currently suffering from various serious post-natal mental disorders, it hasn't ever made me regret having my son, and I have NEVER for a second resented him in any way for it. And we do have a great bond, and he adores me! And I adore him. I can absolutely separate the fact that I'm ill now from my relationship with him. And my focus is to get well again, no different than if it were cancer or any other illness. And I will get better. I firmly believe that, as do my care providers.

My mother had several children and never had a touch of PND or anything like it. So, no, you don't always turn out like your mother. And even if you did, everything is treatable.

I admire your great positivity Mocha Please, I wish you a speedy and total recovery and a lifetime of happiness with your little man.

Cosmicfox

Because having worked with very sick children I'm very certain that if such a thing were to happen to me I wouldn't cope.

So much can go wrong and there can often be no real way you could have avoided it. Very sad listening to a mother trying to sell off all her babies things she'd bought during the pregnancy that will never be used as he'll need specialist equipment for the rest of his (likely short) life.

joollyparo

Want kids i mean alot of em about 10 if possible. I think i because i work from home and naturally am the human daycare. And i really love it.

Addle

Addle wrote: »

So women don't necessarily turn into their mothers then?

No, no ... a million times no! My best friend had a total wagon for an excuse of a mother. She made my friend and her father's lives hell to the point where she had to cut all ties with the bítch.

Like you, she was terrified by the idea that she might turn out like her mother when it came to having kids.

Instead the reality was more CathyMoran:

CathyMoran wrote: »

I am aware that my late mother had PND but it was never treated so she made my life a living nightmare and we were never close. The fear was there that I could subject another human being to the same. I think that i over compensate with my two and am a total walkover but I do have a wonderful relationship with them. I would have another one if we had a surprise but am thrilled with our two. For me parenthood has been amazing but I was incredible scared that I could have been like her.

In spite of an incredibly stressful relationship breakdown and ongoing issues with her ex, my friend is a fantastic mother to her two little uns ... in every respect I can think of.

I think people in your situation are more likely to learn from the mistakes of their parents, as opposed to repeating them.

Gael23

As a man, a girl not wanting kids would be a deal breaker for me in a relationship

Malari

Gael23 wrote: »

As a man, a girl not wanting kids would be a deal breaker for me in a relationship

You're better feeling this way than hoping she'd change her mind though.

Jack B. Badd

Malari wrote: »

You're better feeling this way than hoping she'd change her mind though.

Yeah, the general number of "But I thought he/she would change their mind if I just waited long enough (but not so long that I'm passed the age where I want to/can have kids)..." is somewhat worrying. Knowing what is a dealbreaker is a much better position to be in.

Gongoozler

For me it would be a fear that the guy I'm with would change his mind and decide he does want children, or discover he did. I've always tried to be blunt about it not being something I want so I would hope I'm never in that position.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Gongoozler wrote: »

For me it would be a fear that the guy I'm with would change his mind and decide he does want children, or discover he did. I've always tried to be blunt about it not being something I want so I would hope I'm never in that position.

Yeah, I'd hate to get to say my mid or late thirties and have someone I'm in a long term relationship with leave me because they wanted kids. Either because they'd thought I'd change my mind or because they've changed theirs

Gongoozler

If it happens it happens I suppose.

I'm a little afraid I'll change my mind tbh. I mean, I never wanted children, still don't but you hear of all these women saying something just kicked in one day or even gradually and they decided they did. I'm early thirties now so I'm a bit wary of that. Maybe that sounds stupid.

Malari

Jazmine Miniature Hatchet wrote: »

Yeah, I'd hate to get to say my mid or late thirties and have someone I'm in a long term relationship with leave me because they wanted kids. Either because they'd thought I'd change my mind or because they've changed theirs

My boyfriend's friends kept telling him for years and years that I'd change my mind. Apparently they knew my mind better than he or even I did. :rolleyes:

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Malari wrote: »

My boyfriend's friends kept telling him for years and years that I'd change my mind. Apparently they knew my mind better than he or even I did. :rolleyes:

I've been hearing the same thing from my mother for the last 15 years. I'm not sure if she realises how much it distresses me that it's very clear she'll be disappointed when I don't have children. There's never been the slightest doubt in my mind that I do not want to be a mother, but if she could guilt trip me into it, she would.

mocha please!

Only vaguely relevant to this thread, but I thought I'd mention it anyways.

I was told by a specialist consultant the other day that they are seeing more and more women suffering from post-natal mental disorders - but the interesting thing is, the major trend they are noticing is that the increase is due to women who have had great difficulty in trying to conceive, who spent years of heartache in trying and thousands of euro on IVF etc - herself and her colleagues have noticed that these women are FAR more likely to suffer mentally after the birth. I found that really surprising and interesting.

The consultant I mentioned is planning a study on it to try and get some actual statistics together and to try to figure out why this might be.

Rips

Gael23 wrote: »

As a man, a girl not wanting kids would be a deal breaker for me in a relationship

As a person, someone whose desire to reproduce underpins their basis for a relationship is repugnant.

But hey, thats just me, different people want different things.

Malari

Rips wrote: »

As a person, someone whose desire to reproduce underpins their basis for a relationship is repugnant.

I don't think that's very fair. A baby is not something you can compromise on and it's one of the most fundamental desires in life, if you want it.

Rips wrote: »

But hey, thats just me, different people want different things.

That, I agree with. And it's only normal for the people who want the same things to be in a relationship together where they both get what they want.

mocha please!

Rips wrote: »

As a person, someone whose desire to reproduce underpins their basis for a relationship is repugnant.

But hey, thats just me, different people want different things.

But it's one of the most fundamental basics of a relationship!

If one person in the relationship wants children, and the other person in the relationship doesn't want children, then - no matter how absolutely perfectly suited they are in ever other way - how on earth could you expect the relationship to continue?

Whether you want or don't want children is far too big and important an issue to compromise on.

I wouldn't say that a partner's desire to reproduce underpins my basis for a relationship with them - but I would say that it would certainly be one of the big factors which would determine whether or not I'm compatible with them.

Just please explain how you could describe it as "repugnant" to either want or not want children?

Also, you seem to be of the opinion that a relationship could possibly be successful if one partner wants to have children and the other doesn't - can you please expand on how you see this panning out?

Rips

Why would the OP pursue a relationship with someone who is fundamentally incompatible with his wants and desires in life?

You have completely missed the point of my post.

You cannot compromise on the issue of children, I don't know where you misinterpreted the opposite from my post.

Reproducing is not the fundamental basis of a relationship, ask a gay couple, or an childfree by choice couple, or a contented infertile couple. It is the most socially-acceptable basis for a relationship, and I was just expressing the flipside.

meeeeh

Rips wrote: »

As a person, someone whose desire to reproduce underpins their basis for a relationship is repugnant.

But hey, thats just me, different people want different things.

No that is just minimizing the likelihood that one will be miserable in relationship. It's not a big deal if you are planning a one night stand but if you plan serious relationship then someone's attitude to kids, work, money, lifestyle and so on becomes extremely important.

Edit: I just read your last post, so you find people who want kids repugnant? Lucky them.

Malari

Rips wrote: »

Reproducing is not the fundamental basis of a relationship, ask a gay couple, or an childfree by choice couple, or a contented infertile couple. It is the most socially-acceptable basis for a relationship, and I was just expressing the flipside.

But that's the point we are making. Reproducing itself is not the fundamental basis of a relationship, but whether you want to or not is surely something you have to agree on? Your examples of couples who don't have kids are happy because they are with people who have the same values as them.

meeeeh

Oh it's the old 'I will love you for ever and no matter how different our life goals are, we will deal with them accordingly because love is the basis of our relationship and all we need.' And then they divorce three years later.

Rips

Your examples of couples who don't have kids are happy because they are with people who have the same values as them.

Yes, they have the same values, so why is the OP describing this single want or desire as 'a dealbreaker'?
As a person who doesn't want children, for me, its cut and dried. If you do want children, then its not.

Is he getting his dates screened as to their fertility?

Does he believe his perfect match is just waiting for him, with all her core ideals and values, the things that shaped her as a person, except for one simple issue - she doesn't want children?

Its not a 'dealbreaker', there shouldn't have been a 'deal'. There shouldn't be an assumption (expressed from a male POV) that women automatically want (or indeed can have) children.

I doubt he'd be impressed if his one night stand turned around and said, 'I'm pregnant... oh, well, I didn't take any precautions because, I thought you wanted kids??'

I would argue that its very unlikely someone like me, would have anything much in common with someone who ultimately wants children. I haven't found it to be the case in life at least!
I would have respect for a person, however incompatible, who at least knows what they want.
Also, so many people are undecided, or will later find, that they can't have children. How devastating to have the relationship you built, pulled out from under your feet, 10 years down the line, either because you have fully come to the conclusion that you don't want children, or because of the stress/hurt/lack of support, when you can't.


As far as finding a relationship based on the assumption of reproducing repugnant, the yes, I do, for me personally.
As I said, different people, want different things. I personally, want nothing to do with anyone who ever wants children?

Its as simple as, I want to always be in a relationship of two people, any infringement on that, unnecessary compromise, like dependants, for me, undermines the nature and the value of the relationship I want.

From my perspective, why would you willingly put your relationship at risk of unnecessary stress and demands of your time, money and responsibilities?

OP meets dream girl, he values all these things about her, which are probably the same ideals that make her CFBC. I personally find it offensive that in the cases where this would occur, (the 'she'll change her mind-ers') that these people clearly don't value the person they are in a relationship with, or if they have a good relationship, that they would throw it away for a 'imagined future'.

People don't discuss it early enough in relationships because of this assumption. For people who don't want children, its an easy conversation. There is no end game.

Also as someone who is adamantly CFBC, I wouldn't like to think I would risk even the early stages of a relationship with someone who was anti-abortion, or could potentially want to 'keep' any potential pregnancy.

OneOfThem

Because you can't kind of have a child, just a little bit. There's not really any realistic way to compromise Of course for someone that really wants kids someone else not wanting any will be a deal breaker, and visa versa.

...

What's cfbc stand for?

Rips

Childfree by choice.

As in, its a considered choice, do not ever want children.

Yes in essence, I am saying the exact same thing as the OP, but from the opposite perspective, and for some reason, its bothering people

OneOfThem

Rips wrote: »

Childfree by choice.

As in, its a considered choice, do not ever want children.

Yes in essence, I am saying the exact same thing as the OP, but from the opposite perspective, and for some reason, its bothering people

No I think it's your umberage to someone not wanting to to be with someone that isn't compatible with them in relation to the issue of children that's baffling people.

It's an unnecessarily defensive response to someone saying they'd like to be with someone that felt the same about the issue of children.

You're taking it a little too personal or something?

"I'd like to be with someone that feels the same about having children as I do"

"That's repugnant!"

It's just a little odd. So people are finding it difficult to grasp your point of view.

Rips

I think the way my initial post as pulled apart into two pieces is unfair, my point to the OP was that different people want different things, and he is just as equally unsuitable and possibly even distasteful to some girl who doesn't want children.

Its the way in which he expressed himself, 'as a man'. What has that got to do with it? There is a common perception that women who don't want kids are less womanly or many other things, so yes, it irritated me.

The OP didn't say 'I want to be with someone who has the same views as me towards children' after all...'