Ryanair To The USA

JCX BXC

I am probably not the only one who has read them news stories about the €10 ryanair flights to america.

A thought just occured in my head though, what airports would he fly to?
Most likely not Boston Logan, JFK or Newark.

keith16

Carnacalla wrote: »

I am probably not the only one who has read them news stories about the €10 ryanair flights to america.

A thought just occured in my head though, what airports would he fly to?
Most likely not Boston Logan, JFK or Newark.

That's all they are; stories. They would very likely have to fly to a major, federal airport.

JCX BXC

keith16 wrote: »

That's all they are; stories. They would very likely have to fly to a major, federal airport.

Why would you say that?

scudzilla

Carnacalla wrote: »

Why would you say that?

You couldn't have a flight arriving from outside of the U.S landing in the arse end of knowhere, ya know how the Yanks are about security/immigration etc

JCX BXC

scudzilla wrote: »

You couldn't have a flight arriving from outside of the U.S landing in the arse end of knowhere, ya know how the Yanks are about security/immigration etc

Suppose.
Ryanair might build their own airport (haha).

Apparently their wont be flights from dublin.
(Source: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/flights-to-us-will-cost-just-10-on-ryanair-oleary-30041838.html )
What about shannon?

scudzilla

Carnacalla wrote: »

Suppose.
Ryanair might build their own airport (haha).

Apparently their wont be flights from dublin.
(Source: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/flights-to-us-will-cost-just-10-on-ryanair-oleary-30041838.html )
What about shannon?

What about reading this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056132594

JCX BXC

I had read all that, but I couldn't find it so I started a new one:P
Thanks for finding it though, I recommend for a mod to merge.

SamAK

10 euro flights me ring!

sdanseo

SamAK wrote: »

10 euro flights me ring!

Indeed, you forgot the extras. It breaks down like this:

€10 fare
€50 booking fee
€199 fuel surcharge
€5 for the toilet
€30 for the Wifi
€10 for a Sambo
€2 for crisps
€5 for 300ml of warm beer
€12.70 for the unauthorised overdraft

JCX BXC

In the uk, their is a large Air Travel tax, opposed to none in ireland.
If he can't fly from dublin (and presumably from cork), he can't fly from the uk for €10 due to the travel tax, that leaves other parts of europe and shannon.

vellakare

sdeire has it right:

Indeed, you forgot the extras. It breaks down like this:

€10 fare
€50 booking fee
€199 fuel surcharge
€5 for the toilet
€30 for the Wifi
€10 for a Sambo
€2 for crisps
€5 for 300ml of warm beer
€12.70 for the unauthorised overdraft

My views and some knowledge:

Budget Airlines don't work on journeys of more than 4 hours duration. That really puts a dampener on the Ryanair model. Tony Fernandez of Air Asia attempted to do Kuala Lumpur-Paris and Kuala Lumpur-London. In the process of doing so, he lost RM60 Million per annum per leg (*14 Million Euro).

Ryanair will likely require a new higher grade branding if it wishes to enter the transatlantic market. Steerage is fine for 4 hours or less, but not more.

SamAK

vellakare wrote: »

sdeire has it right:

My views and some knowledge:

Budget Airlines don't work on journeys of more than 4 hours duration. That really puts a dampener on the Ryanair model. Tony Fernandez of Air Asia attempted to do Kuala Lumpur-Paris and Kuala Lumpur-London. In the process of doing so, he lost RM60 Million per annum per leg (*14 Million Euro).

Ryanair will likely require a new higher grade branding if it wishes to enter the transatlantic market. Steerage is fine for 4 hours or less, but not more.

Longest budget flight I did was cattle class Aer Lingus to Canaries....just over three hours and the seat nearly fecking killed me.

JCX BXC

sdeire wrote: »

Indeed, you forgot the extras. It breaks down like this:

€10 fare
€50 booking fee
€199 fuel surcharge
€5 for the toilet
€30 for the Wifi
€10 for a Sambo
€2 for crisps
€5 for 300ml of warm beer
€12.70 for the unauthorised overdraft

But if your realistic,

€30 fare (tbh Its like their €9.99 flights, rare to come by)
€4.50 online check in fee, or admin fee. (Remember, it's one way)
€50 for a 20kg bag.
€20 wifi.
€6 for a sandwich.
€4 cup of tea
€3 bottle of water x2
€2 Mars Bar.
€10 for 2 magazines

---

Total

---

€132.50

Return
€265.

Still cheaper than Aer Lingus, I got €374 return for the first time ever this evening! (Source: Shannon- JFK, 5th November-12th November.)

Strumms

He will basically need a new airline. Ryan Atlantic or whatever. The business model for TA is a lifetime away from intra-Europe short-medium haul. Many questions would need to be asked and answered satisfactorily to meet a profitable business model some of which would include...

Would they pay to avail of pre clearance in DUB.

The cost of fuel... Imagine burning 1 tonne plus of fuel during taxi out at JFK before even leaving the runway.

What airports to serve ? Pointless flying somewhere with zero connectivity ie. a New York upstate airport... Nobody wants to commute another 3 hours or whatever after a TA flight they would rather pay extra unlike an intra Europe shorthaul flight which would only be a couple of hours...

Having to provide meals FOC..

Extra crewing...

The airframes... 2nd hand 757s ? 787 ? A350 ?

I'd imagine he might be holding off to see what the Airbus Neo and 737 Max may offer in the range factor before he makes his move if he indeed will..

The competition... I doubt he will have the ability to bully any one of US, EI, Delta, American and United out of DUB to be honest.

Ryanair Atlantic... I doubt we will see it and if we do it's a ways away...

JCX BXC

Strumms wrote: »

He will basically need a new airline. Ryan Atlantic or whatever. The business model for TA is a lifetime away from intra-Europe short-medium haul. Many questions would need to be asked and answered satisfactorily to meet a profitable business model some of which would include...

Would they pay to avail of pre clearance in DUB.

The cost of fuel... Imagine burning 1 tonne plus of fuel during taxi out at JFK before even leaving the runway.

What airports to serve ? Pointless flying somewhere with zero connectivity ie. a New York upstate airport... Nobody wants to commute another 3 hours or whatever after a TA flight they would rather pay extra unlike an intra Europe shorthaul flight which would only be a couple of hours...

Having to provide meals FOC..

Extra crewing...

The airframes... 2nd hand 757s ? 787 ? A350 ?

I'd imagine he might be holding off to see what the Airbus Neo and 737 Max may offer in the range factor before he makes his move if he indeed will..

The competition... I doubt he will have the ability to bully any one of US, EI, Delta, American and United out of DUB to be honest.

Ryanair Atlantic... I doubt we will see it and if we do it's a ways away...

Please read subsequent posts before posting, I have said in 2 posts and citied a source stating that ryanair will.not be flying out of dublin to the us. And remember where pre clearence started, shannon.

sdanseo

Slight element of humour intended in my earlier post seems to have been misplaced but the points we are all making are the same - you will not get from Dublin to NYC on a tenner.

Strumms

Carnacalla wrote: »

Please read subsequent posts before posting, I have said in 2 posts and citied a source stating that ryanair will.not be flying out of dublin to the us. And remember where pre clearence started, shannon.

Please STFU. I did indeed read previous posts. I dont require your say so to include the content which I have posted to as per above. If you don't like the opinions of others then why solicite responses on an Internet forum... Get a grip. :eek:

JCX BXC

sdeire wrote: »

Slight element of humour intended in my earlier post seems to have been misplaced but the points we are all making are the same - you will not get from Dublin to NYC on a tenner.

People said that about dublin to the uk. It happened. Again, there will be no €10 flights from dublin

sdanseo

Carnacalla wrote: »

People said that about dublin to the uk. It happened. Again, there will be no €10 flights from dublin

It's an awful lot cheaper to fly a 737 to the UK than perhaps a 757 to the USA.

737-800 burns around 5,000kg of fuel on a leg to the UK, about €2,500 in fuel for the trip. 178 seats.
757-300 burns about 41,000kg over 3,000nm to the US, about €19,000 in fuel costs. 280 seats (less on a -200, albeit with comparatively lower consumption)

Subsidise that to a tenner each times 280 seats max. It doesn't work. (Jet A1 about 54c a litre at the moment - source

JCX BXC

sdeire wrote: »

It's an awful lot cheaper to fly a 737 to the UK than perhaps a 757 to the USA.

737-800 burns around 5,000kg of fuel on a leg to the UK, about €2,500 in fuel for the trip.

757-300 burns about 41,000kg over 3,000nm to the US, about €19,000 in fuel costs.

Subsidise that to a tenner each times 300 seats max. It doesn't work.

Nope it wont work.
Neither will €10 on a trip to a uk if you sell every seat at €10.

Im pretty sure he is waiting for the new fuel efficent version of the 737-900.

If you do it at an average of €200 pp per way it subsidides the cost.

Remember business class. Baggage costs. All the optional extras. If you sell 200 seats at €200(average) including business, bags. You get €40,000 then food and drink profits.

sdanseo

Carnacalla wrote: »

Nope it wont work.
Neither will €10 on a trip to a uk if you sell every seat at €10.

Im pretty sure he is waiting for the new fuel efficent version of the 737-900.

If you do it at an average of €200 pp per way it subsidides the cost.

Remember business class. Baggage costs. All the optional extras. If you sell 200 seats at €200(average) including business, bags. You get €40,000 then food and drink profits.

I'd struggle to see them getting an average of 20 times the cheapest fare though. Most EU flights are advertised at 15-30 and sell for probably 50-80. On average.

Is it possible to increase the variety of available fares on this sort of a route?

Granted all the extras but at the rate we're working out here there'll be about 4 seats per leg sold at €10 and then it has to climb steeply to be economical.

JCX BXC

sdeire wrote: »

I'd struggle to see them getting an average of 20 times the cheapest fare though. Most EU flights are advertised at 15-30 and sell for probably 50-80. On average.

Is it possible to increase the variety of available fares on this sort of a route?

Granted all the extras but at the rate we're working out here there'll be about 4 seats per leg sold at €10 and then it has to climb steeply to be economical.

Its hard to calculate but id say its very possible.

sdanseo

Carnacalla wrote: »

Its hard to calculate but id say its very possible.

All conjecture for now either way

If they can pull it off, they will. They're not turning a profit on scratch card sales alone, they're doing closer to everything right than something right. Time will tell.

billy few mates

Carnacalla wrote: »

Its hard to calculate but id say its very possible.

Classic....

BeardySi

yup, its been ages since we last saw this thread... it the moon full?

billie1b

sdeire wrote: »

737-800 burns around 5,000kg of fuel on a leg to the UK, about €2,500 in fuel for the trip. 178 seats.

In all my years working on the 800's, i've never seen a flight to the UK burning 5000kg of fuel, you'd get to Barcelona from Dublin on 5000kg of fuel burn. The heaviest i've ever seen to the UK was London at 2800kg, at the was in very bad weather.

flazio

scudzilla wrote: »

You couldn't have a flight arriving from outside of the U.S landing in the arse end of knowhere, ya know how the Yanks are about security/immigration etc

Wouldn't the fact that you go through US Border control in DUB or SNN mean you could do just that?

Dublinflyer

flazio wrote: »

Wouldn't the fact that you go through US Border control in DUB or SNN mean you could do just that?

Yes it would be classed as a US domestic flight.

I personally believe that he wants to do TA flights but he knows that the brand needs to be improved. He has started that process already but it will take time. At the end of the day they can set up a new airline and call it whatever they want but people will know it is backed by the ryanair. The press will also be waiting on anything to go wrong and make it headline news. I would love to see them go for it as however they do it the other airlines will be looking on a little nervously.

JCX BXC

I just spent 2 hours doing calculations on starting a new airline.
It would have 1 plane and would fly from snn to newark daily.

After setting up an office and paying all employees, buying a 757 plane and working out a fuel cost, I earned a profit of 4 million.

Them calculations were made with little experience.

JCX BXC

Strumms wrote: »

Please STFU. I did indeed read previous posts. I dont require your say so to include the content which I have posted to as per above. If you don't like the opinions of others then why solicite responses on an Internet forum... Get a grip. :eek:

Me get a grip? You were stating it would be pointless to fly out of dub due to competition! FFS they won't be so why comment.

Some people

Growler!!!

Carnacalla wrote: »

I just spent 2 hours doing calculations on starting a new airline.
It would have 1 plane and would fly from snn to newark daily.

After setting up an office and paying all employees, buying a 757 plane and working out a fuel cost, I earned a profit of 4 million.

Them calculations were made with little experience.

What kind of yields and load factors are you working with?

Are the crew within duty hours for a daily service, and how many crew are you looking at employing?

Are you taking CVs?

JCX BXC

Growler!!! wrote: »

What kind of yields and load factors are you working with?

Are the crew within duty hours for a daily service, and how many crew are you looking at employing?

Are you taking CVs?

I didn't go too detailed.

What I did was hired 3 pilots, at €150,000 per year salary
20 cabin crew at 27,500 year salary.
3 co-pilots at 75,000 year salary
I pay myself 300,000
Rented a large office at 200,000 year.
I bought a boeing 757-200 1992 (http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=1305679)

billie1b

Carnacalla wrote: »

I didn't go too detailed.

What I did was hired 3 pilots, at €150,000 per year salary
20 cabin crew at 27,500 year salary.
3 co-pilots at 75,000 year salary
I pay myself 300,000
Rented a large office at 200,000 year.
I bought a boeing 757-200 1992 (http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=1305679)

What about SBY crew, overnight cost, high maintenance costs, catering, office electricity and heating, ground services, ground crew, landing fees, hangar rental and thats just naming a few. The list can go on and on. Your 4 million is declining rapidly.

irishgeo

billie1b wrote: »

What about SBY crew, overnight cost, high maintenance costs, catering, office electricity and heating, ground services, ground crew, landing fees, hangar rental and thats just naming a few. The list can go on and on. Your 4 million is declining rapidly.

travel insurance bonding,

JCX BXC

billie1b wrote: »

What about SBY crew, overnight cost, high maintenance costs, catering, office electricity and heating, ground services, ground crew, landing fees, hangar rental and thats just naming a few. The list can go on and on. Your 4 million is declining rapidly.

I factored in landing fees, 1.7million for newark.
Free at shannon for the first year.
Aircraft maintenance was 1million (excessive?)
15million fuel.
100,000 towards hotel stay and hub maintenance at newark.
I put 1mil towards advisors and legal+ other fees.
I put 100,000 towards furnishing the office,
30,000 towards power, water, broadband, telephone.
I have 3 web developers at 60,000 and 10,000 for web maintenance.
I also put 30,000 BIK for me and my fellow senior figures in the company.

A319er

Ok I searched online how do I book a seat ?

afatbollix

It wont work as you need Business passengers to pay for the £10 flights and they would rather fly with a legacy carrier with the champagne on tap as they don't pay for there flights.

He all ready ruined it by saying they would give out blow jobs to business class passengers. Would you really want to land in NYC and get to a board meeting to say you came in via ryanair and someone say 'Did you enjoy your free blowjob?' for you to have to reply 'No there was no blow jobs given out today.'

orionm_73

€100k for hotel costs in EWR ? You'd need to at least double that.

billie1b

Carnacalla wrote: »

I factored in landing fees, 1.7million for newark.
Free at shannon for the first year.
Aircraft maintenance was 1million (excessive?)
15million fuel.
100,000 towards hotel stay and hub maintenance at newark.
I put 1mil towards advisors and legal+ other fees.
I put 100,000 towards furnishing the office,
30,000 towards power, water, broadband, telephone.
I have 3 web developers at 60,000 and 10,000 for web maintenance.
I also put 30,000 BIK for me and my fellow senior figures in the company.

I destroyed the cowling on a 738 before, for the parts alone that needed replacing, it was €300,000, that doesnt include labour costs and what not, 1 million aint enough in my opinion. You also need public liability insurance, company insurance, use of simulators, medical officers, more crew than 6 pilots. Its a great idea but you'll need money behind you before you start. If it was as easy as 1 plane and you get 4 million profit after all expenses, any Tom, Dick and Harry could do it.

P.S : I'm not having a go at you, I find your idea great

JCX BXC

A319er wrote: »

Ok I searched online how do I book a seat ?

What?

L1011

Carnacalla wrote: »

I bought a boeing 757-200 1992 (http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=1305679)

No winglets, very old, won't make it westbound in winter.

Where do you have the costs of hiring in, say, a Titan 767 to cover when your single, elderly, high hours 757 goes tech or needs maintenance?

6 pilots gives you 2700 hours of block time which is not sufficient for a daily return at all. 20 cabin crew gives you, at the 5 required for that number of seats, 3600 hours, also insufficient.

Where's the employer PRSI?

ATC fees? CBP fees (not covered in the first year free generally)?

JCX BXC

MYOB wrote: »

No winglets, very old, won't make it westbound in winter.

Where do you have the costs of hiring in, say, a Titan 767 to cover when your single, elderly, high hours 757 goes tech or needs maintenance?

6 pilots gives you 2700 hours of block time which is not sufficient for a daily return at all. 20 cabin crew gives you, at the 5 required for that number of seats, 3600 hours, also insufficient.

Where's the employer PRSI?

ATC fees? CBP fees (not covered in the first year free generally)?

I have no Idea.
I'm really experienced in this area.

Can you add winglets?
If not, fly it eastwards:P

L1011

Carnacalla wrote: »

Can you add winglets?

Yes, but not cheaply. The winglets cost $1.1M from APB and that's them in a box in the factory, not on the wing of your plane.

Realistically there is zero chance a startup airline operating SNN-EWR would be profitable year one (if ever), let alone 4M.

JCX BXC

I have enquired about leasing an airbus a330.

JCX BXC

MYOB wrote: »

Yes, but not cheaply. The winglets cost $1.1M from APB and that's them in a box in the factory, not on the wing of your plane.

Realistically there is zero chance a startup airline operating SNN-EWR would be profitable year one (if ever), let alone 4M.

One of the biggest areas where startup airlines are let down is advertising.
Tell me my costs and I'll try and see if I can make any money.

Market research would be interesting.

JCX BXC

The Boeing 737-900 seems to be able for a transatlantic journey.
Ryanair anyone? They seem fond of their precious 737's

billie1b

Carnacalla wrote: »

The Boeing 737-900 seems to be able for a transatlantic journey.
Ryanair anyone? They seem fond of their precious 737's

The 737-800 is able for T/A with a smaller configuration, ask O'Leary to lease a few.

L1011

Carnacalla wrote: »

One of the biggest areas where startup airlines are let down is advertising.
Tell me my costs and I'll try and see if I can make any money.

Looking at failures, the biggest issue is assuming there's a market where there isn't one.

You need two aircraft realistically, newer and preferably already fitted out suitably (all economy seating with a basic AVOD system I'd imagine)

You need about 30 pilots and 75 FAs. You will need flight planning and operations staff. You're going to need more finance and HR people. You're going to need a much larger office...

You have to consider CBP charges, US security charges, US taxes as gone from the ticket price before you get a cent - if you attempt to transfer these directly to the consumer and think that they'll still fall for a headline rate without them you'll have no customers (and the EU on your back). These are on top of airport fees. Building a business plan on the airport fees being free in year 1 - which they often aren't for a second operator on a pre-existing route - leaves you dead in the water at 13 months.

You need significant room left in the budget for coping with delays, compensation for same, strikes, weather cancellations, Iceland blowing up cancellations, etc.

Carnacalla wrote: »

The Boeing 737-900 seems to be able for a transatlantic journey.
Ryanair anyone? They seem fond of their precious 737's

Not loaded to capacity its not. Try a 737-700 and you might be on to something, but you're not going to have the range to go any further than SNN-EWR realistically; nor are you going to make it in winter either.

b757

Carnacalla wrote: »

One of the biggest areas where startup airlines are let down is advertising.
Tell me my costs and I'll try and see if I can make any money.

Market research would be interesting.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Lease a ATR, Waterford is need of a link to LTN. :P

JCX BXC

MYOB wrote: »

Looking at failures, the biggest issue is assuming there's a market where there isn't one.

You need two aircraft realistically, newer and preferably already fitted out suitably (all economy seating with a basic AVOD system I'd imagine)

You need about 30 pilots and 75 FAs. You will need flight planning and operations staff. You're going to need more finance and HR people. You're going to need a much larger office...

You have to consider CBP charges, US security charges, US taxes as gone from the ticket price before you get a cent - if you attempt to transfer these directly to the consumer and think that they'll still fall for a headline rate without them you'll have no customers (and the EU on your back). These are on top of airport fees. Building a business plan on the airport fees being free in year 1 - which they often aren't for a second operator on a pre-existing route - leaves you dead in the water at 13 months.



Not loaded to capacity its not. Try a 767-700 and you might be on to something, but you're not going to have the range to go any further than SNN-EWR realistically; nor are you going to make it in winter either.

Intresting.
My calculations were to fill 170 seats, a fill factor of 67%.
To sell seats, you could have 3 different classes.

Low Economy: Fares starting at €50. Includes a tightly packed seat and a piece of handluggage.

High Economy:
Includes a semi-spacious seat with a 20kg suitcase.
Complimentary water. Includes entertainment system. Extended features for €5.
2 pieces of hand luggage.

Business.
3 suitcases and spacious seats.
Seats partly recline. Full entertainment system with 3 meals.
Free soft drinks and up to 5 free alcoholic drinks. Priority boarding.

First Class.

Your own enclosed space with unlimited drinks and plentiful food. Free wifi. Seats turn into beds. Climate control.

JCX BXC

b757 wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Lease a ATR, Waterford is need of a link to LTN. :P

Why not STN?
Call michael, he will set you up.