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stomach fat when sitting down.

  • 11-04-2014 10:58pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭


    I think i'm a healthy weight.. 11 stone and 7 pounds, 6 foot 1 and 22 years of age.

    I'm not sure about my body fat % but my BMI says i'm a healthy weight.

    When standing up i'm fine but when sitting down my stomach developes roles of fat that looks very unattractive.

    It's making me feel a bit paranoid.. Any information or advice please? is it normal?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 139 ✭✭antoswords


    carzony wrote: »
    I think i'm a healthy weight.. 11 stone and 7 pounds, 6 foot 1 and 22 years of age.

    I'm not sure about my body fat % but my BMI says i'm a healthy weight.

    When standing up i'm fine but when sitting down my stomach developes roles of fat that looks very unattractive.

    It's making me feel a bit paranoid.. Any information or advice please? is it normal?

    Never sit down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,773 ✭✭✭madma


    theres no excuse, your a fattty boom-ba-latty. standing up is obviously just hiding it;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Yeah this happens to everyone. The key to beat this is as has been pointed out never be caught in a situation that requires sitting down. This involves a lot of planning ahead.

    Seriously though don't worry about this. I recently saw a tumblr picture of some girl real thin, nice frame etc. and then it showed pictures of her in different positions showing the effects lighting and poses have on how the body looks and the same thing happens. Don't have the link handy right now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭Typer Monkey


    How is your diet and do you do any training? Not everybody has rolls of fat when they sit down but those people are usually training (weight training and core training). Have you heard the term 'skinny fat'?

    If you're not eating well and not training this may apply to you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    How is your diet and do you do any training? Not everybody has rolls of fat when they sit down but those people are usually training (weight training and core training). Have you heard the term 'skinny fat'?

    If you're not eating well and not training this may apply to you

    If you slouch forward like the vast majority of people who work at desks you do.

    Skinny fat does not mean abdominal fat. It just means you're thin with no muscles. Not relevant.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭Typer Monkey


    How do you know it's irrelevant and that the OP works at a desk? He/she hasn't given that information which is why I asked him/her to elaborate on their training and general diet. Completely reasonable questions in my opinion. Maybe you should allow the OP to decide what's relevant


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    How do you know it's irrelevant and that the OP works at a desk? He/she hasn't given that information which is why I asked him/her to elaborate on their training and general diet. Completely reasonable questions in my opinion. Maybe you should allow the OP to decide what's relevant

    Skinny fat is not relevent cause it;s not what the OP asked about.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    How do you know it's irrelevant and that the OP works at a desk? He/she hasn't given that information which is why I asked him/her to elaborate on their training and general diet. Completely reasonable questions in my opinion. Maybe you should allow the OP to decide what's relevant

    The OP doesn't know enough to know what is relevant and what is not. Hence the original question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    You should probably adjust your diet to lose a little weight. Your bodyfat is too high if you're feeling self-conscious about belly flab when you sit down.

    To clarify: You're not overweight for your height, but it does sound like a composition problem. You should lift weights :D Also, if you know your waist measurement you can get a rough bodyfat estimate. Actual waist measured with a tape, not your pants size.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    I'd have thought the fat down there at the bottom of the belly is just the hardest to lose. As if it's the first place the body puts it and the last place it takes it from. Are you saying that some lifting / upper body work would flatten it out? Got any links to stuff to read on that?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Lifting weights burns calories and builds muscle, which also burns more calories. I'm not saying it will magic wand away stomach fat, it will help achieve and maintain a calorie deficit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    carzony wrote: »
    I think i'm a healthy weight.. 11 stone and 7 pounds, 6 foot 1 and 22 years of age.

    I'm not sure about my body fat % but my BMI says i'm a healthy weight.

    When standing up i'm fine but when sitting down my stomach developes roles of fat that looks very unattractive.

    It's making me feel a bit paranoid.. Any information or advice please? is it normal?
    Are you a man or woman?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭carzony


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Are you a man or woman?

    male..


    I'v absolutely no muscle atall. My arms are tiny.. I know women the same age as me who have bigger arms:o

    would people reccomend jogging or lifting? I walk 1 hour a day, everyday as a rule but doesnt really seem to be maing any difference for me..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,433 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    You're a young man, you should have some muscle and strength. It will stand to you later in life. :)

    An hour's walking a day is great for your health. You should definitely think about doing some strength based training - nothing wrong with some push ups / sit ups / air squats / planks to get you started...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    carzony wrote: »
    I'v absolutely no muscle atall. My arms are tiny.. I know women the same age as me who have bigger arms:o

    Well, there's your problem. Too much body fat, too little muscle.
    would people reccomend jogging or lifting? I walk 1 hour a day, everyday as a rule but doesnt really seem to be maing any difference for me..

    Lift weights. Cardio is fine and all, but all running will do is help burn off a few extra calories. Whereas if you lift lots of heavy things you will burn calories while doing it, increase muscle mass - which means you will naturally burn more calories just by being alive - you'll be stronger, you'll look great - basically everyone should lift weights.

    If you know nothing about how all this stuff works, most gyms will have trainers you can hire for about 25 quid per hour, you can get them to do an hour or two to show you a basic strength plan. Or google it. There's more advice and recommended plans out there than you can shake a stick at.

    Also learn about how to eat properly, and learn to cook your own meals if you don't already. Losing fat is mostly about diet, exercise only helps. Lifting weights helps do all that other stuff too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭carzony


    What weight would you start off with? I think i'v a few weights in the shed I can lift.. Not sure how heavy they should be? and would I need to take some of that protein shake stuff?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,896 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Slydice wrote: »
    Are you saying that some lifting / upper body work would flatten it out? Got any links to stuff to read on that?
    What sort of stuff are you looking for?
    Weight training (and other activity) assists fat loss. It's that simple.
    carzony wrote: »
    would people reccomend jogging or lifting? I walk 1 hour a day, everyday as a rule but doesnt really seem to be making any difference for me..

    Given your upperbody/muscle description. If recommend weight training to build strength/muscle.
    Tbh, 1 hour a day isn't a whole lot. Between walking to bus/work/lunch/home I prob accumulate 1 hour walking without doing anything else. And I've a desk job.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭carzony


    Mellor wrote: »
    What sort of stuff are you looking for?
    Weight training (and other activity) assists fat loss. It's that simple.



    Given your upperbody/muscle description. If recommend weight training to build strength/muscle.
    Tbh, 1 hour a day isn't a whole lot. Between walking to bus/work/lunch/home I prob accumulate 1 hour walking without doing anything else. And I've a desk job.

    but isnt 1 hour excercise reccomended to stay healthy?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    carzony wrote: »
    but isnt 1 hour excercise reccomended to stay healthy?

    All exercises aren't equal. 1 hour of walking hardly counts. An hour of sprinting would be astoundingly hard. An hour of heavy weights is a damn good workout.

    There's no point asking what weight to start on, it entirely depends on you. There's also a million other things to consider, like how many repetitions, how many sets, etc. Honestly, hire a trainer for an hour to show you the basics or google a starter weight training program. Look up videos on how to do different exercises properly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,896 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    carzony wrote: »
    but isnt 1 hour excercise reccomended to stay healthy?
    Intensity plays a much bigger factor than time.
    Just because "exercise" is your reason for going for a walk, if the intensity I its no different than 1 hour built up over a day naturally. Which isn't a lot depending on your daily life. Somebody who works on their feet might build up 4-8 hours a day.

    If you want to tackle stomach fat you need to sort your diet and do some exercise with a bit of intensity


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,306 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    how-i-feel-standing-up.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 776 ✭✭✭dtpc191991


    Go down the gym and workout if you want more muscle but whatever you do don't lose weight. You are at a perfectly healthy weight for a male of your height and age.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,427 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Sit up straight?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    Zillah wrote: »
    All exercises aren't equal. 1 hour of walking hardly counts. An hour of sprinting would be astoundingly hard. An hour of heavy weights is a damn good workout.

    sorry to jump in, but is 1 hour of walking a complete waste?
    Im walking 6.5k in an hour, (trying to get into joggin) is this a waste of time? should i be doing something else, in order to get fitter and loose weight?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ShaggyQueen


    sorry to jump in, but is 1 hour of walking a complete waste?
    Im walking 6.5k in an hour, (trying to get into joggin) is this a waste of time? should i be doing something else, in order to get fitter and loose weight?

    Keep trying to jog. I started out walking a 6km route with the dog, used to jog maybe 200m before I had to stop. Now I can jog the route (and longer) relatively easily. Will burn more calories, but the main benefit for me was more just the general feeling after a run. I feel a lot physically fitter and mentally better with regular running


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    Keep trying to jog. I started out walking a 6km route with the dog, used to jog maybe 200m before I had to stop. Now I can jog the route (and longer) relatively easily. Will burn more calories, but the main benefit for me was more just the general feeling after a run. I feel a lot physically fitter and mentally better with regular running

    Thanks for that, im at 400m before i have to stop :D. Im glad im not the only one who started this way.
    How long before you could jog the 6k?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    sorry to jump in, but is 1 hour of walking a complete waste?
    Im walking 6.5k in an hour, (trying to get into joggin) is this a waste of time? should i be doing something else, in order to get fitter and loose weight?

    No its not a waste, but it wont be as good as jogging, which wont be as good as hill sprints, which wont be as good as etc etc.

    If your goal is to jog then just start jogging and walk then to catch your breath before jogging again.

    If you are looking to loose weight then your diet will be the major factor though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    No its not a waste, but it wont be as good as jogging, which wont be as good as hill sprints, which wont be as good as etc etc.

    If your goal is to jog then just start jogging and walk then to catch your breath before jogging again.

    If you are looking to loose weight then your diet will be the major factor though.

    Thanks, funnily Im thinking of doing sprinting aswel if i can. i have to research this, how long, how many, how far etc.

    My diet is a funny topic. I eat once a day, always have. if i eat regularly i put on more weight. i get killed for this when i mention it to anyone though.

    Initially i want to loose weight, then get fit and toned. I couldnt face a gym now, way too conscious for that and broke :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    My diet is a funny topic. I eat once a day, always have. if i eat regularly i put on more weight. i get killed for this when i mention it to anyone though.

    What do you eat and what did you eat additional to that when you tried to eat more regularly?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    What do you eat and what did you eat additional to that when you tried to eat more regularly?

    Id have dinner, regular meat and two veg. im not a fan of meat, i only really eat chicken, so i would probably eat more carbs to fill the void of meat. OR il have chicken and veg.

    When i tried to do the eat regularly thing, it would be weetabix in the morning, yogurt or fruit at lunch, maby popcorn or peanuts, dinner with no carbs, just chicken and veg.

    Ive been at this walking/jog now for over a month and a half. while im fitter and do about 9k in a day now (walking mostly, with the jog when i can)
    I havent lost not 1 lb. im not givin up but maby i need a personal trainer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41 ShaggyQueen


    Thanks for that, im at 400m before i have to stop :D. Im glad im not the only one who started this way.
    How long before you could jog the 6k?

    Not sure exactly, didn't really follow a program, I'd say 2-3 months of running sporadically. Something eventually just clicked in my head and I realised I go the whole course after making big gains 2 runs in a row, I could keep going if I slowed down the pace and ignored the voice telling me to stop.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Id have dinner, regular meat and two veg. im not a fan of meat, i only really eat chicken, so i would probably eat more carbs to fill the void of meat. OR il have chicken and veg.

    When i tried to do the eat regularly thing, it would be weetabix in the morning, yogurt or fruit at lunch, maby popcorn or peanuts, dinner with no carbs, just chicken and veg.

    Ive been at this walking/jog now for over a month and a half. while im fitter and do about 9k in a day now (walking mostly, with the jog when i can)
    I havent lost not 1 lb. im not givin up but maby i need a personal trainer.

    If you're not losing weight then you're probably eating too much.

    What you put up for when you tried to eat regularly hints at that.

    How much of all that would you eat? Have you used something like MyFitnessPal to track what you eat? You'd be surprised if you logged it all.

    Peanuts are about 200 cals for a small bag, for example.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    If you're not losing weight then you're probably eating too much.

    What you put up for when you tried to eat regularly hints at that.

    How much of all that would you eat? Have you used something like MyFitnessPal to track what you eat? You'd be surprised if you logged it all.

    Peanuts are about 200 cals for a small bag, for example.

    But i cant eat any less or i would eat nothing:D. i only eat dinner now.
    I am using that app, my calories should be 1700 to loose weight but im not even coming close to that, im always massivly under it. Even if i have a take away for my dinner.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    But i cant eat any less or i would eat nothing:D. i only eat dinner now.
    I am using that app, my calories should be 1700 to loose weight but im not even coming close to that, im always massivly under it. Even if i have a take away for my dinner.

    Then you either have a medical issue and should seek a doctor, or you are miscalculating your requirements and how much you are eating. If you'd like to post up your sex/height/weight we can calc your tdee for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    But i cant eat any less or i would eat nothing:D. i only eat dinner now.
    I am using that app, my calories should be 1700 to loose weight but im not even coming close to that, im always massivly under it. Even if i have a take away for my dinner.

    It's not a case of "you're having 2 meals? Eat less - have 1".

    It's portion size.

    But if you're honestly saying that you're eating massively less than 1,700 then that might be the problem?

    http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

    It will help you work out what your BMR, TDEE is etc.

    If you're eating in or around your BMR, which is the amount of calories you need to exist, then your body is holding onto every calorie.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    Then you either have a medical issue and should seek a doctor, or you are miscalculating your requirements and how much you are eating. If you'd like to post up your sex/height/weight we can calc your tdee for you.

    a medical issue, i dont have a problem with food, i can eat more, i just dont get hungry till i get home and stop for the day.
    Dont get me wrong, i can pick at things, and i know i would be eating more that what i should. But for the last month and a half i havent been eating any bad stuff. Just my dinner, tea and water. This is pretty much my daily diet anyway.

    im 5'2 and female, im about 3 stone over weight i reckon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    It doesn't always come down to the quality of food. There are calories in everything.

    But you need to know your BMR and your TDEE in order to be able to tackle it.

    If you're massively going below your TDEE then that can be a problem.

    But otherwise you're possibly eating bigger quantities than you're accounting for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    a medical issue, i dont have a problem with food, i can eat more, i just dont get hungry till i get home and stop for the day.
    Dont get me wrong, i can pick at things, and i know i would be eating more that what i should. But for the last month and a half i havent been eating any bad stuff. Just my dinner, tea and water. This is pretty much my daily diet anyway.

    i'm 5'2 and female, im about 3 stone over weight i reckon.

    Im not goign to get into medical advice as that is not allowed but if you are eating 1600 calories (for exampel) and your daily requirments are 1700 and you are not losing weight you

    a) have a medical issue or some sort and should speak to a doctor or
    b) are miscalculating your requirements: i.e you do not actually need 1700 or you are eating more than 1700.

    We can help you with B. Use the calc that Alf has linked to and be extremely strict with your calorie tracking, count everything - drinks included.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    It doesn't always come down to the quality of food. There are calories in everything.

    But you need to know your BMR and your TDEE in order to be able to tackle it.

    If you're massively going below your TDEE then that can be a problem.

    But otherwise you're possibly eating bigger quantities than you're accounting for.

    Possibly my portion sizes are not very accurate you could be right, but i dont think one dinner would be over the 1700 cals per day could it.

    thanks for the link, ive entered everything in, its giving me a projected weight loss and metobolic rate.
    (this is where it gets technical, im lost already lol)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Possibly my portion sizes are not very accurate you could be right, but i dont think one dinner would be over the 1700 cals per day could it.

    thanks for the link, ive entered everything in, its giving me a projected weight loss and metobolic rate.
    (this is where it gets technical, im lost already lol)

    What part is confusing you - just ask.

    Your dinner may or may not be over 1700 calories, that's why you need to be accurate :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    Im not goign to get into medical advice as that is not allowed but if you are eating 1600 calories (for exampel) and your daily requirments are 1700 and you are not losing weight you

    a) have a medical issue or some sort and should speak to a doctor or
    b) are miscalculating your requirements: i.e you do not actually need 1700 or you are eating more than 1700.

    We can help you with B. Use the calc that Alf has linked to and be extremely strict with your calorie tracking, count everything - drinks included.

    i see your point, i reckon its b) id say i just eat the wrong foods.
    but its disheartening when i only eat the one meal a day and excerise on average 6k, 5 days a week and not even 1lb down.

    i should have measured myself too and see if there a diffrence.

    id appreciate any help with this, thank you very much :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    You'll need to start with a kitchen scales to weight your food. Just at the start so you can workout what calories are in a portion size and then adjust it accordingly. You'll be able to judge it by eye after that.

    But use the link above to work out your BMR and your TDEE


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    i see your point, i reckon its b) id say i just eat the wrong foods.
    but its disheartening when i only eat the one meal a day and excerise on average 6k, 5 days a week and not even 1lb down.

    i should have measured myself too and see if there a diffrence.

    id appreciate any help with this, thank you very much :D

    I would go with what alf has said, its all good advice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    Ive entered all my details in, but i think i might be in the wrong calculator

    what i have is a custom meal planner and a i cant see anything with BMR or TDEE (i dont know what this means, im a total newbie at this fit lark :) )


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Ive entered all my details in, but i think i might be in the wrong calculator

    what i have is a custom meal planner and a i cant see anything with BMR or TDEE (i dont know what this means, im a total newbie at this fit lark :) )

    What is your age/weight/height and sex and we will do it for you if you want.

    BMR is the calories you need stay alive and TDEE is the calories you need to live + calories you'd spend in day to day activities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    What is your age/weight/height and sex and we will do it for you if you want.

    BMR is the calories you need stay alive and TDEE is the calories you need to live + calories you'd spend in day to day activities.

    ok im being silly sorry, i do see it now lol

    my BMR is 1575
    my TDEE is 1890
    daily calories to loose 20% fat is 1512

    so i need to stick to 1512 in order to loose weight?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Im not goign to get into medical advice as that is not allowed but if you are eating 1600 calories (for exampel) and your daily requirments are 1700 and you are not losing weight you

    a) have a medical issue or some sort and should speak to a doctor or
    b) are miscalculating your requirements: i.e you do not actually need 1700 or you are eating more than 1700.

    We can help you with B. Use the calc that Alf has linked to and be extremely strict with your calorie tracking, count everything - drinks included.

    Even if was it the case of A, and she still wasn't losing fat, then she would be losing weight in other places. The body can't conjure calories from nowhere, a person only eating 1600 calories when their BMR is 1700 has to lose weight, by definition.
    i see your point, i reckon its b) id say i just eat the wrong foods.
    but its disheartening when i only eat the one meal a day and excerise on average 6k, 5 days a week and not even 1lb down.

    i should have measured myself too and see if there a diffrence.

    id appreciate any help with this, thank you very much :D

    What about snacks? How often would you have a nibble? What about drinks? Do you have coffee? Sugary drinks like coke, ice-tea, anything like that? Booze? Are you a wine drinker? Meals aren't the only thing that counts. Everything that passes your lips has calories.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭missrandomer


    Zillah wrote: »
    Even if was it the case of A, and she still wasn't losing fat, then she would be losing weight in other places. The body can't conjure calories from nowhere, a person only eating 1600 calories when their BMR is 1700 has to lose weight, by definition.



    What about snacks? How often would you have a nibble? What about drinks? Do you have coffee? Sugary drinks like coke, ice-tea, anything like that? Booze? Are you a wine drinker? Meals aren't the only thing that counts. Everything that passes your lips has calories.

    Oh i have snacked in the past for sure, thats how i got to here im sure.

    on my fitnes pal, i was only taking 600 calories per day or around that, now thats with my own rough portion size, 1 breast of chicken, and loads of brocoli and peas (that kind of would be my estimates)

    I drink tea about 5-7 cups a day, milk no sugar.
    Diet pepsi the odd day.
    my bad snack would be 2 cookies or a bar, or something along them lines. but thats not every day, maby twice a week if that.
    I dont drink during the week, and since ive started my fitness thing, ive been out on one night out (where i did drink like a my body weight in alcohol:D)

    but thats it, now i cant say i havent messed up, but this is roughly my day to day diet


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Do you account for all of those snacks or the milk in your tea or everything you driunk on a daily basis when you use MFP?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Zillah wrote: »
    Even if was it the case of A, and she still wasn't losing fat, then she would be losing weight in other places. The body can't conjure calories from nowhere, a person only eating 1600 calories when their BMR is 1700 has to lose weight, by definition.

    Right, but a thyroid issue would mean the calcs are incorrect. And yes, i am aware that this leads to B :)


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