Old type springer or not.

snipe49

garyc007 wrote: »

attached is a few pics of the pups,there not great pics but give you a rough idea

very nice .what age are they and was there just the 3.

garyc007

no there were more but we ran into dificulty,been her first litter and some huge pups,the 3 that made it out are about 6 weeks now and flyn it

snipe49

garyc007 wrote: »

no there were more but we ran into dificulty,been her first litter and some huge pups,the 3 that made it out are about 6 weeks now and flyn it

That's a shame pal. they are fine pups for 6 weeks.

allan450

denholm reynholm wrote: »

would you think that there may be an issue with a bitch that doesn't come into heat until 3 years?? surely that would be an indicator that that bitch shouldn't be bred from at all.

majority of trialing dogs that dont make the grade are no use as hunting dogs as they dont have the stamina for hunting, this being the main issue with trialing dogs as mentioned earlier in the thread.
What has ruined the springer lines is greed, breeders churning out litters every year with little regard for the dogs, but to line their own pockets.

people keep going on about stamina.stamina can be worked on in humans and any animal.most trailing dogs that dont make the grade due to style make well polished shooting dogs.yes some lines burn out quicker then others.also i know a few lads that rough shoot/trail the same dogs.The dog learns to pace its self after a few days rough shooting FACT.Its like when you buy anything you can be lucky and unlucky.how much time you put into the dog ect ect.people opinions will always differ on this subject and iv seen it from both sides.

denholm reynholm

allan450 wrote: »

people keep going on about stamina.stamina can be worked on in humans and any animal.most trailing dogs that dont make the grade due to style make well polished shooting dogs.yes some lines burn out quicker then others.also i know a few lads that rough shoot/trail the same dogs.The dog learns to pace its self after a few days rough shooting FACT.Its like when you buy anything you can be lucky and unlucky.how much time you put into the dog ect ect.people opinions will always differ on this subject and iv seen it from both sides.

How long have you been trailing dogs?

allan450

dont trail.have friends in the trailing world.Done i few puppy tests with my little cocker bitch as she has the style of a trailing dog.But still on the fence to keep it up a lot of politics to it.

TriggerPL

Bla bla bla bla bla ! Same **** every spaniel conversation ere !

It's a known fact that a gud rough hunting spaniel won't make the trailing scene because they look for a completely different type of dog ! And trailing men are completely to blame for the ruination of spaniel breed as a whole .

And you touched on the fact that hunting dogs that don't make the grade make great pets ! This is the worste thing that ever happened , because u have a woman that has a well bread YET Useless spaniel decides to breed it to a ftch and sell her pups as ftch breed pups for 350€ each !

Prime example is hattonswood broc , every bitch and there daughter was breed to him at one stage , and now a dog Which I found to be a gud dog not the hardest of hunters but as honest as the day , reputation for breeding bad dogs is well documented . When in fact the bitches didnt have it in the first place .

U touch on given dale dogs ! My experience with that man is that he doesn't hunt his dogs , and when I requested him to show me the the dog doing a days hunting he refused . And at the time I was buying a pup off him .

He also recommended a litter to me from what was ment to be good working dogs , only to find out after I bought a pup that they were just pets .

So we are all guilty of buying into this bull**** , and I'm not saying that given dale dogs are in anyway bad , but I think the owner is in it for the money and not the love of dogs or hunting .

I've been contacted by people to breed of my spaniel and I've refused because I don't know the bitch or ain't seen her work , the last thing I'm going to have said is that he breeding crap just because the bitch ain't any gud .

Gary007 is the first bitch he has covered and the results speak for them selves . And in time we will know what there offspring are doing !

If u want a gud sire for get the given dales and the trailing breeds , go to some driven shoots and shooting days see these dogs working and pick ur sire from what impresses u !!

Speed and style shouldn't be all you look for , I weigh it up , size nose speed style in that order ! What the point in having a dog where the bird is as big as them !!

TriggerPL

And stamina isn't something u learn or grow , yes you can develop ur stamina , but that don't mean it's ever going to be as gud as an athlete say that runs marathons no matter how hard you train .

And that's what you look for in a dog , that super athlete , the one that doesn't know when to stop ! And there hard got in spaniel breed at the moment !!

landkeeper2

size is not that important ye all keep going on about old and new type springers and are fixated or so it seems on big strong lab sized spaniels ,i have been in and around shooting and working spaniels for over 30 years and 30 years ago those big bullocks of dogs were not about the dogs of those times were medium sized well muscled animals.my first spaniel a jordieland bred small type would dog in most days of the week , be used for rough shooting days 2 sometimes 3 days a week and do a full days beating for a driven day on a saturday and in those days i cycled to work and the dog ran beside me
imho what should be more important is the dogs ability to work and stamina , it's no good having an ass sized spaniel if it can't find ,work and retrieve game neither is a small ****zu sized thing any use as a shooting dog if it is burned out after half an hour .
As a good buddy of mine says if your into shooting trialing and beating you really need three different dogs as the demands of each are so totally different

the old adage about terriers is as true about springers

'it's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog'

TriggerPL

Here a gud example of the size and muscle / bone structure of what a bitch she be IMO ! And she is a demon in cover as well !!

allan450

i have shot over the givendale dog i liked him thats why he was chosen as a stud dog for my mates bitch.so dont know why he didnt let you shoot over him.looks great the big dogs blasting into cover.That been said its alot easyier for a smaller dog so less taxing.landkeeper is spot on in here.to be honest im sick of hearing about stamina/big dogs/heavily marked dogs/trailing.buy the dog for your needs whether it be for whatever shooting you do.This argument goes back and forward more times.Their is so many factors to take on board it it can never be settled.

allan450

landkeeper2 wrote: »

size is not that important ye all keep going on about old and new type springers and are fixated or so it seems on big strong lab sized spaniels ,i have been in and around shooting and working spaniels for over 30 years and 30 years ago those big bullocks of dogs were not about the dogs of those times were medium sized well muscled animals.my first spaniel a jordieland bred small type would dog in most days of the week , be used for rough shooting days 2 sometimes 3 days a week and do a full days beating for a driven day on a saturday and in those days i cycled to work and the dog ran beside me
imho what should be more important is the dogs ability to work and stamina , it's no good having an ass sized spaniel if it can't find ,work and retrieve game neither is a small ****zu sized thing any use as a shooting dog if it is burned out after half an hour .
As a good buddy of mine says if your into shooting trialing and beating you really need three different dogs as the demands of each are so totally different

the old adage about terriers is as true about springers

'it's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog'

massive + 10

TriggerPL

allan450 wrote: »

massive + 10

Care to start making sence ! In one post ur saying stamina can be worked on ! Which it can't ! The dog either has it or not ,

In ur next post ur saying ur sick of hearing about stamina and well marked dogs etc.

And then u agreeing with land keeper who believes that stamina is a key factor !


And land keeper is completely correct no one suggested spaniels the size of Labradors , but it's clear to be seen trailing spaniels are like cockers !

And if u want a cocker buy one !!

Trailing breed springers are not able for the heavy work we expect from our springers !

Well I expect !! U might settle for less.

landkeeper2

of course stamina can be worked on it goes hand in hand with fitness , ask anyone who has done time in the defence forces the same goes for dogs horses or any animal
i have a spaniel here 100% trial bred in fact he's a ftch and his litter brother is an iftch ok he's nearly 10 now but he'll still put many 'working' spaniels to shame when he was in his prime he was unstoppable

TriggerPL

landkeeper2 wrote: »

of course stamina can be worked on it goes hand in hand with fitness , ask anyone who has done time in the defence forces the same goes for dogs horses or any animal
i have a spaniel here 100% trial bred in fact he's a ftch and his litter brother is an iftch ok he's nearly 10 now but he'll still put many 'working' spaniels to shame when he was in his prime he was unstoppable

As I said in my first post human stamina can be go to a certain level same as fitness , but that don't mean u can get it up to the stage of an athlete , that's why there the best at what they do ! Same goes with dogs !

If it's not in the dog , u will never get it out of a dog !

Why do u look for a dog with stamina if it's something you recond u can improve on ??

allan450

i think your getting stamina and drive mixed up.stamina can be worked on how many lads bring their dogs out 1st day of the season and they struggle to finish the day.after a week of it they finish the day no prob thats because stamina/fitness increases.

TriggerPL

No lad stamina is when ur dog can do it 2 / 3 days in a week and never look tired , also comes with fitness .

But you can have a dog fit to where it can last a day , but is goosed for the rest of the week , where if the dog has stamina 2 or 3 day should be no problem .

Drive ! Is the want to hunt ! If you. Dog don't have drive then all the fitness / stamina in the world won't make him hunt !!

allan450

stamina can mean a lot of different things.but i get what your saying.

TriggerPL

Look I'm not say that every trailing dog out there is scrap , or don't have what it takes to make a gud rough hunting dog !

But unfortunately a lot if them don't , and is shown more now than ever befor .

There was an article in the digest by a well know trailing man outlining the traits that have been lost in spaniels because of trailing .

And it will be a long road back because even breeders like given dale that started out to achieve a strong line of old type spaniels , recognising that something needed to be done .

Mate don't think I'm having a dig at you directly . If it was anyone else in this conversation they get the same replys .

snipe49

TriggerPL wrote: »

Bla bla bla bla bla ! Same **** every spaniel conversation ere !

It's a known fact that a gud rough hunting spaniel won't make the trailing scene because they look for a completely different type of dog ! And trailing men are completely to blame for the ruination of spaniel breed as a whole .

And you touched on the fact that hunting dogs that don't make the grade make great pets ! This is the worste thing that ever happened , because u have a woman that has a well bread YET Useless spaniel decides to breed it to a ftch and sell her pups as ftch breed pups for 350€ each !

Prime example is hattonswood broc , every bitch and there daughter was breed to him at one stage , and now a dog Which I found to be a gud dog not the hardest of hunters but as honest as the day , reputation for breeding bad dogs is well documented . When in fact the bitches didnt have it in the first place .

U touch on given dale dogs ! My experience with that man is that he doesn't hunt his dogs , and when I requested him to show me the the dog doing a days hunting he refused . And at the time I was buying a pup off him .

He also recommended a litter to me from what was ment to be good working dogs , only to find out after I bought a pup that they were just pets .

So we are all guilty of buying into this bull**** , and I'm not saying that given dale dogs are in anyway bad , but I think the owner is in it for the money and not the love of dogs or hunting .

I've been contacted by people to breed of my spaniel and I've refused because I don't know the bitch or ain't seen her work , the last thing I'm going to have said is that he breeding crap just because the bitch ain't any gud .

Gary007 is the first bitch he has covered and the results speak for them selves . And in time we will know what there offspring are doing !

If u want a gud sire for get the given dales and the trailing breeds , go to some driven shoots and shooting days see these dogs working and pick ur sire from what impresses u !!

Speed and style shouldn't be all you look for , I weigh it up , size nose speed style in that order ! What the point in having a dog where the bird is as big as them !!

I sent u pm last night about your dog did u get it. I f u did will u reply please.

TriggerPL

Didn't see it lad il look now , I never go into the messages ere , give me a min. .

Kells1

What bloodlines are in her trigger? Sorry the bitch on the previous page.

TriggerPL

Hey mate , not my bitch belongs to my mate , but from what I know a lot of badgers court true her ! Which is never a bad thing , she a super bitch , hard goer

garyc007

Tba,maybe one,waiting on men to get back to me,ye know how it goes,i dont want to advertise any until im sure. Couple pics of the bitch here attached

Gorman700

Well lads, my 9 month old fella has a fracture in his shoulder. The vet used the term "springer fracture". He said 3 weeks of keeping him locked up and should be ok. Anyone experience this before? My vet said it's very common in them cause of the bow in their upper leg bone.

snipe49

Gorman700 wrote: »

Well lads, my 9 month old fella has a fracture in his shoulder. The vet used the term "springer fracture". He said 3 weeks of keeping him locked up and should be ok. Anyone experience this before? My vet said it's very common in them cause of the bow in their upper leg bone.

That hard luck pal. But been as he's a young dog he has a great chance of making a full recovery. Did your vet give u antiinflamatory drops for him.

Gorman700

snipe49 wrote: »

That hard luck pal. But been as he's a young dog he has a great chance of making a full recovery. Did your vet give u antiinflamatory drops for him.

Gave me 3 weeks of tablets for him, never asked what they were for, assumed their anti inflammatory. Vet just said, he's young, his bones are soft and this is a common thing. 3 weeks doing nothing and you won't have this problem again. Dog is 17.7kg and 9 months, little tank.

snipe49

Gorman700 wrote: »

Gave me 3 weeks of tablets for him, never asked what they were for, assumed their anti inflammatory. Vet just said, he's young, his bones are soft and this is a common thing. 3 weeks doing nothing and you won't have this problem again. Dog is 17.7kg and 9 months, little tank.

Try to keep his movements to a minumam with loads of sort bedding; best for this is get your hands on some cheap pillows they have a soft fibre filling just cut them open and u'll see what i mean. best of luck with him pal'

Gorman700

snipe49 wrote: »

Try to keep his movements to a minumam with loads of sort bedding; best for this is get your hands on some cheap pillows they have a soft fibre filling just cut them open and u'll see what i mean. best of luck with him pal'

He'll eat the lot lad, he's brutal!

snipe49

Gorman700 wrote: »

He'll eat the lot lad, he's brutal!

Any pic's of this fella.