He wants baby, I want wedding

Taltos

OP - giving ultimatums is never good and usually just ends up with one winner and one loser.

My suggestion for what's it worth is to have a final and I mean final conversation.
Be clear to him - a child is not going to happen before marriage.

And then have the chat about where you are both headed. If you can then accept his arguments and agree to look at your position again great. If though he is unwilling to discuss this, then why wait... Why lose even one more day...

pipster

Taltos wrote: »

OP - giving ultimatums is never good and usually just ends up with one winner and one loser.

My suggestion for what's it worth is to have a final and I mean final conversation.
Be clear to him - a child is not going to happen before marriage.

And then have the chat about where you are both headed. If you can then accept his arguments and agree to look at your position again great. If though he is unwilling to discuss this, then why wait... Why lose even one more day...

He knows for certain that I won’t have a child before marriage so he is clear on that.

I agree that even though he could propose, he could potentially put off a wedding. If we got engaged, he knows that I would want to get married immediately and not wait for years. If he did start to act up like people have said then I guess I will remember these posts and realise that isn’t right.

I obviously hope all my talk of this issue is for nothing and he was just chancing his arm about a baby without a “big” wedding and by October I am in a very different situation.

Merkin

What's your gut telling you Pipster?

CaraMay

But why are you accepting someone chancing their arm on your future. You are being ridiculous.

Penny Tration

CaraMay wrote: »

But why are you accepting someone chancing their arm on your future. You are being ridiculous.

I don't think the op is being ridiculous at all. I think she's in love with her partner and hoping to god he cops on to himself. She's set a time line in her mind. Blindly doing what he wants would be ridiculous.

Pipster, I honestly don't think you should be waiting til October. You and your partner should be able to decide together what ye want without all of this hassle. What happens in October if he decides he never wants to be married, and you break up? By the time you meet someone else, settle down and marry, your fertility may be hugely decreased.

After 5 years, he should know if he wants to marry you or not. I wouldn't be waiting til October if i were in your position.

CaraMay

Sorry op I meant you are being ridiculous to 'hope' he was chancing his arm by getting you to have a baby but not marry you.

Why would you hope that the man you want to marry is capable of that? It seems you will take that as a minimum standard as long as he ultimately agrees to marry you.

dellas1979

green_screen wrote: »

and hoping to god he cops on to himself.

Well, I think thats the post in a nutshell.

She seems to be waiting for him to change his mind/cop himself on (to what she thinks).

But shes not wrong in her wants and neither is he.

Sometimes people in relationships are reading the same book but on different pages.

If he doesnt want to get married, you cant make him. If you dont want a child before marriage, he cant make you. Otherwise you will both end up resenting each other OP. So while you are gung ho on standing your ground, hes well within his rights to stand his ground too.

December2012

He asked the OP to trust him. He wants to wait, nothing wring with that.

OP - do you trust him?

Sgt Pepper 64

We went the traditional route, and 7 years later, after much much angst, we had our first child with me at 40.

Didn't expect to take so long, but thankfully got there in the end

Not sure if there's a right or wrong answer, but just don't expect the stork to come visit you 9 months after the wedding!

macplato

pipster wrote: »

(...)
I agree that even though he could propose, he could potentially put off a wedding. If we got engaged, he knows that I would want to get married immediately and not wait for years. If he did start to act up like people have said then I guess I will remember these posts and realise that isn’t right.

I obviously hope all my talk of this issue is for nothing and he was just chancing his arm about a baby without a “big” wedding and by October I am in a very different situation.

OP, you have one major problem in your relationship - communication. You have one conversation after another, and you don't get anywhere. Talking means nothing, when you don't know how to communicate, and it seems that both of you are poor communicators. Perhaps you can communicate very well in other areas of your lives, but all your posts here show that when comes to addressing important issues within your relationship, you are only scratching the surface and you don't reach any conclusions. This must be mightily frustrating!

You mentioned that he might put off the wedding after you get engaged - how come you don't know whether he would like a long engagement or not? What did he say when you told him you'd like to get married immediately? If he didn't comment on that, why didn't you ask him to tell you how he felt about what you said to him? He owes you these answers, he is supposed to be your partner.

By acting the way he does, he alone stays in control of your future, and this is just not fair. But then again, you agree to being treated this way, you allow him to keep you guessing, so it's not entirely his fault.

I suggest that you take this opportunity, this challenging time in your relationship, and use it to learn to communicate. You say that you don't want to probe too much in case he is planning something - is all the uncertainty, insecurity, frustration and time worth the "oh my god, I had no idea!" moment? What if that moment never comes, will it still be worth it? What if he proposes on your birthday - will you really be that surprised or will you just be relieved at this stage? And how will you feel if he doesn't propose on your birthday? Are you really ok with keeping yourself anxious until October not to spoil a potential "surprise"?

pipster

I agree that in reality I don’t want to wait until October and would expect something to happen before then. Giving it time to October kinda makes me put it aside a bit. Recently everyone was joking that something would happen during a recent trip away and I didn’t like that it was in my mind during the trip and the feeling is disappointment when it didn’t happen. That’s why I gave a longer timeline. I know I shouldn’t be listening to the jokes so seriously but if you want something yourself you kinda tell yourself its true.

I have spoken to my parents about it and they agree that its not a good thing and he is very hard to read and talk to. They suggested to wait for a few months and see what happens. That gives the “trust me” comment time to see if he is actually planning anything and if nothing happens then a decision needs to be made.

People have asked about my gut and if I trust him and honestly I believe that he is going to propose soon and by trying to talk about it and get a decision is frustrating him. However, I will naturally expect the worst that he doesn’t want to marry me or sees that as more commitment than a baby for some strange reason. I have seen people break up over this type of issue before and have told myself I won’t keep going for years and then my chances of having a child and even 2 are at a huge risk.

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

Recently everyone was joking that something would happen during a recent trip away and I didn’t like that it was in my mind during the trip and the feeling is disappointment when it didn’t happen.

Just an observation Pipster, but every single post, without exception, has referred to what your friends think and do and what his friends think and do. Why would you defer to them in this way and let their expectations or herd mentality influence you in any way? At thirty years old you both really should have the maturity and self-confidence not to give a flying fcuk what other people do - it has no bearing whatsoever on YOUR lives. When it feels right it feels right regardless of how long you have been together. Rant over.

I think you need to have one final sit down to establish what his views are on an engagement and his expectations around same. This wait and see approach is not going to work. If he proposes in October, what kind of time frame is he then looking at between being engaged and getting married (and not what his friends have done :rolleyes:)? Because you need to establish this now rather than have a proposal forthcoming in October and then he turns around and says on the proviso that you don't actually get married until 2020.

I personally wouldn't hang around - this is obviously too important and is going to make for a very unhappy six months if you don't address it head on. You need to sit down and establish (based on him saying he does want to marry you):

a. Are you going to be getting engaged before October because you really want this to happen
b. Reassure him it doesn't need to be some grand gesture proposal - is he happy just to agree to get engaged?
c. When you do get engaged, you'd like to set a date. What to him is a reasonable time between getting engaged and married? Agree on same
d. You both agree to STOP discussing this with all of your friends or making reference to them in relation to his subject - it is private business
e. What kind of wedding you would both like?
f. What you both expect from marriage?

I'd advise you to write down all of the questions that are important to you and not terminate the conversation until all have been addressed head on. You keeping going back and forth and having conversations and nothing is actually happening so to focus your mind I advise you to really address all the fundamental questions head on and really get those answers that you need in order to move on either way. Existing in some kind of hopeful limbo will doubtless end up frustrating you and making you unhappy.

ronjo

This may be a stupid idea but why dont you propose to him?

Ande1975

Not to generalise but in my experience, a lot of couples discuss the process of getting engaged, the when, the ring, the announcement. Few if any of my friends got the big surprise. It was all planned mutually.
I know that may not be everyone's experience but it has been mine.

Based on that, I think you are setting yourself up for a huge disappointment.
If marrying someone was important to me, I couldn't stay with someone who didn't want to marry.
Relationships can be tough at the best of times and it doesn't bode well that both of you cannot agree on your future.

If your bf is trying to do the 'Chandler/Monica - I don't want to get married just to put you off in order for a big surprise' then that's just down right horrible. Not saying that he is but that's what I am reading from your posts. It appears to me that you think he will propose.

pipster

I know I have made references to friends a lot. If you haven’t notice already I am an indecisive person and sometimes need reassurance on things. I know I shouldn’t care what friends or society do but I would still use it as a guideline or a reference point when I’m not sure of something.

I haven’t discussed the issue with them, more so they have made comments and jokes about it.

Its terrible that I can’t talk to him about it. If I look at it the other way around, it would annoy me if he kept asking to have a baby when I made my point clear already. I want to have a baby with him but just not right now. I am still very happy with him and look forward to having a baby but need more time. Does that not sound reasonable too? If he dumped me because needing more time was unacceptable then I would think that was drastic. He should give me a bit of time and revisit in a bit no??

username123

pipster wrote: »

Its terrible that I can’t talk to him about it.

Whats stopping you from talking to him about it? Why cant you?

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

Its terrible that I can’t talk to him about it. If I look at it the other way around, it would annoy me if he kept asking to have a baby when I made my point clear already.

But the whole crux of this thread is that he hasn't made his point clear already!

On the contrary! He's spun you some rubbish about what his friends have done, how long they waited, how he wants to have a baby instead, and how he wants maybe/potentially to do this at some stage on his own terms. You're still none the wiser. WHY can't you talk to him about it? Why can't you communicate effectively about your collective future? He hasn't made his point clear at all. If he had you'd know exactly where you stand and what to expect. Both of you would. Instead, through a lot of talking, you've continually managed to totally evade the matter in hand.

Ande1975

pipster wrote: »

I know I have made references to friends a lot. If you haven’t notice already I am an indecisive person and sometimes need reassurance on things. I know I shouldn’t care what friends or society do but I would still use it as a guideline or a reference point when I’m not sure of something.

I haven’t discussed the issue with them, more so they have made comments and jokes about it.

Its terrible that I can’t talk to him about it. If I look at it the other way around, it would annoy me if he kept asking to have a baby when I made my point clear already. I want to have a baby with him but just not right now. I am still very happy with him and look forward to having a baby but need more time. Does that not sound reasonable too? If he dumped me because needing more time was unacceptable then I would think that was drastic. He should give me a bit of time and revisit in a bit no??

OP,
Do you not realise that you are in a stalemate with him? He wants a baby, you want a marriage before a baby.
It sounds like neither of you are going to budge on the matter, so who is going to give in? Or should either of you give in?
It doesn't read to me like you need more time, you want to get married which is fair enough.
The split would come based on the fact that you can't agree on your future together. Sounds like you have different perspectives of how to move forward.
He'll happily let this drag on for as long as you want.

pipster

Merkin wrote: »

But the whole crux of this thread is that he hasn't made his point clear already!

On the contrary! He's spun you some rubbish about what his friends have done, how long they waited, how he wants to have a baby instead, and how he wants maybe/potentially to do this at some stage on his own terms. You're still none the wiser. WHY can't you talk to him about it? Why can't you communicate effectively about your collective future? He hasn't made his point clear at all. If he had you'd know exactly where you stand and what to expect. Both of you would. Instead, through a lot of talking, you've continually managed to totally evade the matter in hand.

The last time I spoke to him he said I was talking it to death and I was turning a suggestion to have a child into a question of why we can’t get married. He said he needs more time and to trust him and its frustrating him that I keep bringing it up. So the reason I feel that I can’t talk to him as it doesn’t get me anywhere but make him p*ssed off and I feel worse.

I gather that’s not good at all for a relationship but I thought I could give him a bit of time and revisit in a bit.

ronjo

pipster wrote: »

The last time I spoke to him he said I was talking it to death and I was turning a suggestion to have a child into a question of why we can’t get married. He said he needs more time and to trust him and its frustrating him that I keep bringing it up. So the reason I feel that I can’t talk to him as it doesn’t get me anywhere but make him p*ssed off and I feel worse.

I gather that’s not good at all for a relationship but I thought I could give him a bit of time and revisit in a bit.

Did you ask him what he meant by this?

pipster

ronjo wrote: »

Did you ask him what he meant by this?

No but I presumed that it meant he was going to soon.

Magicmatilda

Hey OP,

Just my two cents but if I were in your position I would do what you are doing. He has asked you to trust him and you do. If in October there has been no movement then you need to push the issue again and get a definite resolution. But I don't think you are being mad or ridiculous or weak or anything to leave it until then.

Obviously you should be able to talk about things and in fairness you have, he has asked you to trust him. I don't see the harm in doing that. Afterall if you are going to spend the rest of your life together then you should trust him.

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

The last time I spoke to him he said I was talking it to death and I was turning a suggestion to have a child into a question of why we can’t get married. He said he needs more time and to trust him and its frustrating him that I keep bringing it up. So the reason I feel that I can’t talk to him as it doesn’t get me anywhere but make him p*ssed off and I feel worse.

I gather that’s not good at all for a relationship but I thought I could give him a bit of time and revisit in a bit.

You really have reached a stalemate.

What I find most disturbing in all of this (bar the suspicion that his suggestion to have a baby is all a ruse quite frankly) is his flagrant dismissal to discuss a matter that is clearly very important to you indeed.

If Mr. Merkin wants to discuss something important and visa versa we do so. You sit down as a couple and address what the problem is and reach a compromise.

Your partner instead gets angry and strops and refuses to discuss it which is taking a unilateral approach to what should be joint decisions. This does not bode well. And the funny thing is, he doesn't have to discuss it to death. I'm sure all he needs to say is, "I want to marry you and I promise there will be an engagement before the year is out". That's all. Not being passive aggressive and sneaky and evasive. He is basically refusing to reassure you when you need reassurance and for that reason I'd be assessing my future with him long before October.

bee06

Magicmatilda wrote: »

Hey OP,

Just my two cents but if I were in your position I would do what you are doing. He has asked you to trust him and you do. If in October there has been no movement then you need to push the issue again and get a definite resolution. But I don't think you are being mad or ridiculous or weak or anything to leave it until then.

Obviously you should be able to talk about things and in fairness you have, he has asked you to trust him. I don't see the harm in doing that. Afterall if you are going to spend the rest of your life together then you should trust him.

I agree, while you've gotten some really good advice none of us know you or your OH. Go with your gut and if you trust him then wait and reevaluate around your birthday.

username123

pipster wrote: »

The last time I spoke to him he said I was talking it to death and I was turning a suggestion to have a child into a question of why we can’t get married. He said he needs more time and to trust him and its frustrating him that I keep bringing it up. So the reason I feel that I can’t talk to him as it doesn’t get me anywhere but make him p*ssed off and I feel worse.

And whats wrong with you asking the question of why you cant get married?

And is it not frustrating for you that he will not give you a clear indication of his intentions?

It seems like he uses "getting annoyed" to avoid talking about things. This really isnt healthy. You have to think about the long term here. Are you going to end up miserable and frustrated and walking on egg shells instead of expressing yourself properly and having your valid concerns talked out? In 20, 30, 40 years time, are you going to want something but be afraid to bring it up because it "annoys" him that you want to talk about it.

Newsflash - it doesnt matter if it annoys him that you want to talk about something. He doesnt get to control all conversations to be about subject matters of his choice. As an adult in a relationship he sometimes has to talk about things that he doesnt want to talk about, and if the subject matter annoys him - tough. Thats communication. Thats compromise. Thats a relationship.

meeeeh

pipster wrote: »

Its terrible that I can’t talk to him about it. If I look at it the other way around, it would annoy me if he kept asking to have a baby when I made my point clear already. I want to have a baby with him but just not right now. I am still very happy with him and look forward to having a baby but need more time. Does that not sound reasonable too? If he dumped me because needing more time was unacceptable then I would think that was drastic. He should give me a bit of time and revisit in a bit no??

So he doesn't want to get married yet and you don't want to have a child yet. Since consequences of having a child are a lot more serious, he should not pressurize into it. But if he is willing give you time before you have children (and I hope he is) then maybe a wedding isn't such a pressing matter either?

dellas1979

Magicmatilda wrote: »

Hey OP,

Just my two cents but if I were in your position I would do what you are doing. He has asked you to trust him and you do. If in October there has been no movement then you need to push the issue again and get a definite resolution. But I don't think you are being mad or ridiculous or weak or anything to leave it until then.

Obviously you should be able to talk about things and in fairness you have, he has asked you to trust him. I don't see the harm in doing that. Afterall if you are going to spend the rest of your life together then you should trust him.

If you agree with this point of view OP, then isnt this the resolution to your issue, right now? Wait till October. We are all guessing anyways.

Ill be honest, from my POV, I do find it a bit weird that you feel you cant talk/approach him. Someone you want to spend the rest of your life with. But that is your choice and if you are happy and ok with that yourself, then best of luck.

Penny Tration

I have to be honest, Pipster, the lack of proper communication shocks me. You're together five years. I'm with my boyfriend five MONTHS and we've already communicated really well on difficult topics (such as children, I never want them and cannot have them, so I tell people before it gets serious). It sounds like you're trying to communicate, and he's preventing it by getting so annoyed that the conversation finishes abruptly.

Giving him until October is fair enough, if he was communicating with you. But he hasn't. You've had no real answers, just that he's not ready to marry you. You don't know when (or perhaps even if) he will be. That doesn't sound like a pair of adults who know what they want and are happy to talk things out.

Not to be cheeky (and this will sound cheeky, so I'm sorry!) but do you really think you should be giving him so long to decide what he wants, at your age, when your fertility will start to decrease soon, when he's refusing to discuss the issue with you?

I dunno. Tbh, if I were in your position, I'd want a definitive answer, not some blase 'trust me' rubbish, and I don't even have the idea of fertility and motherhood to consider!

therealme

Why don't you go away for a few days to think about it all?
Do you want to continue in a relationship with somebody who won't have a proper conversation with you about something SO important???
I agree, he should not feel pressurised into getting married BUT after 5 years together, maybe you deserve to know where you stand.
I think he seriously needs to grow up and communicate eitherway what he wants with you op, life is too short to waste it on somebody who doesn't have enough respect to be honest with you about what he wants from his future.
From your posts, I think you deserve better.

StripedBoxers

pipster wrote: »

Its terrible that I can’t talk to him about it.

You can talk to him, you are choosing not to. Instead, you are going to let this issue fester until October, and then you say you will revisit.

There's a pair of you in it OP, and honestly, I wouldn't be rushing into marriage or babies or anything, if the two of you cannot sit down like adults and talk about this, there is more than this issue to worry about.

You are both 30 (give or take) and he is refusing to talk to you, so you decide to let it sit until October, not in the slightest bit mature.

You need to sit down with him and make it explicitly clear what you want, what you expect and when you expect it by. This pussyfooting around until October is no good for either of you, or for your relationship.

Make it clear to him, that you will absolutely not be having any children before marriage, and then leave the ball in his court as to what he wants to do, you will soon find out whether or not he wants marriage, and then you have to make a decision based on what he wants and what you want and whether or not either of you will compromise.

As for your friends and what they've done, they've said etc, ignore it all, no relationship is the same, so what works for them, may not work for you.