He wants baby, I want wedding

pipster

Hi

I am very confused about something and hope someone might be able to help.

My partner and I have been together a long time and I thought that he might propose this year based on some conversations he has had with his friends and things he has said etc.

He recently asked if I wanted to try have a baby and that curve ball has knocked me big time.

I would love to start a family with him but I can’t help but be deep down traditional and want the wedding first. He said he would like to get married but would like to start having children straight away and not have to wait until after a wedding which would realistically be 18 months+.

As a compromise, I suggested having a quick engagement but we didn’t really agree on that.

The problem is that the conversation kinda ended without a resolution so either I wait to see if he proposes as he knows I would prefer a wedding first or I make the wedding a joint decision instead of a Will you..? Yes moment.

I can talk to him about anything but this topic is a little tricky. Asking to try have a baby isn’t as formal as a proposal so it’s been hard to know what to do next.

I appreciate your advice.

Taltos

There is nothing to stop you having a small civil ceremony and a larger wedding later if you both prefer.
Look at it this way - while you are not married his rights are not guaranteed - maybe sell it to him on that score.

I know to some this might be a small thing but if he feels happy enough to have a child with you why is he not happy enough to get married first?

pipster

Taltos wrote: »

I know to some this might be a small thing but if he feels happy enough to have a child with you why is he not happy enough to get married first?

I understand your point and I would think from the outside (which I know I shouldn't consider but I do) people would think we only got married because of a child and not that we actually planned it.

He seems to be thinking that he wants children sooner rather than later and doesn't want to wait for ages. He is also looking at spending money on things he finds more important than a wedding.

I think a lot of people think the same but they tend to have the wedding first and do it small rather than jump the gun.

I wonder if I should broach the subject again or does that look like I'm pushing a proposal which essentially I am if he wants to get things moving?

Fluorescence

Do you mind me asking how old you both are? If ye a 30+ I can totally understand why he may wish to start trying for a family ASAP before age adds more complications. As Taltos suggests, you could have a small civil ceremony and a bigger ceremony 1-2 years down the line for a blessing with family & friends

LegacyUser

If you want to get married, propose to him.

End of.

Neyite

Does he realise that in the delivery room, he has no say whatsoever?
That if an emergency happened, he is not your next of kin?
That he is not the baby's next of kin if anything happened to you- your next of kin is?

You can get married in 3 months for €200. There is nothing wrong with you wanting marriage first - and being clear that you do. Or, if he does not want to get married at all, to end things and he can find someone who is happy with that and you find somone who considers marraige as important as you do.

pipster

Fluorescence wrote: »

Do you mind me asking how old you both are? If ye a 30+ I can totally understand why he may wish to start trying for a family ASAP before age adds more complications. As Taltos suggests, you could have a small civil ceremony and a bigger ceremony 1-2 years down the line for a blessing with family & friends

He is over 30 and I'm nearly 30. He said that he would like to have a couple of children and that they are not too young by the time he is 40 so he did the math and decided he needs to have them soon.

pipster

pipster wrote: »

He is over 30 and I'm nearly 30. He said that he would like to have a couple of children and that they are not too young by the time he is 40 so he did the math and decided he needs to have them soon.

Ye don't know how long it will take to conceive in the first place anyway, so why not put in the 3 months notice for marriage licence now anyway and you can have a legal wedding then and a bigger one later down the line

pipster

Where I’m having trouble is that it’s not very clear cut. If he didn’t believe in marriage or we were broke then it’s easy to say let’s not do it and a child is the priority. But the problem is that he is has put out a suggestion that is different to my ideal situation but I’m willing to compromise on but I don’t know how to bring it up again without making him feel like he has to propose there and then.

I think I have to do something as I don’t want to just forget about it and keep going as we are as I would absolutely love to get married and have a child so if this is the opportunity to get that then maybe I have to encourage it.

I don’t like when women corner their man to get married so I’m trying to avoid that but obviously him bringing up the baby thing first reassures me he is ready anyway.

Well you both want to get married and it seems to be a question of timing, and if he's to be your husband and co parent you will definitely need to be able to communicate important things to him
Just bring it up again in a calm setting
I would personally let go of expecting a will you/yes set up when it's clearly a joint decision anyway...

pipster

bluewolf wrote: »

Well you both want to get married and it seems to be a question of timing, and if he's to be your husband and co parent you will definitely need to be able to communicate important things to him
Just bring it up again in a calm setting
I would personally let go of expecting a will you/yes set up when it's clearly a joint decision anyway...

I think that's what I have to do. I guess I looked at getting asked the question meant the other person was ready but that's not the case really.

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

He is also looking at spending money on things he finds more important than a wedding.

Given that you're also expecting a romantic proposal, I am making the assumption that you also want the big white wedding etc etc?

What is most important to you? The wedding or actually being married? If it's the latter then you just need to tell him that a small, intimate and inexpensive wedding will suit just fine if it means you can start building your little family sooner rather than later.

bee06

It seems like the only thing that is putting him off getting married first is the money side of things? As others have said it doesn't need to cost 20 grand to get married. He obviously wants to make some kind of commitment to you if he's talking about children so if you are willing to have a smaller than traditional wedding there is no reason why you can't get married and start trying straight away.

Also maybe you need to get away from this "waiting for a proposal" idea. It's perfectly acceptable for you to propose to him or for you both to decide to get married when you discuss it (that's what my parents did).

pipster

Merkin wrote: »

Given that you're also expecting a romantic proposal, I am making the assumption that you also want the big white wedding etc etc?

What is most important to you? The wedding or actually being married? If it's the latter then you just need to tell him that a small, intimate and inexpensive wedding will suit just fine if it means you can start building your little family sooner rather than later.

Your assumption would be wrong. I want a family and would love to start trying now but I can't escape tradition that a wedding comes first. I wouldn't spend loads on a wedding and have a good bit of savings that could be used but I wouldn't go mad. I would like a celebration though.

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

Your assumption would be wrong. I want a family and would love to start trying now but I can't escape tradition that a wedding comes first. I wouldn't spend loads on a wedding and have a good bit of savings that could be used but I wouldn't go mad. I would like a celebration though.

Have you told him this?

pipster

Merkin wrote: »

Have you told him this?

Yes but we didn't really come to any conclusion so I don't know if I should suggest we get engaged?

strobe

So his objections to getting married first are it'll take too long and cost a lot? Suggest a cheap wedding soon instead? Can get married for a couple of hundred euro in a couple of months time if you'd like.

bee06

pipster wrote: »

Yes but we didn't really come to any conclusion so I don't know if I should suggest we get engaged?

If he wants to have a child with you and wants to get married at some stage then he's not going to go running for the hills if you suggest it so why wouldn't you?

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

Yes but we didn't really come to any conclusion so I don't know if I should suggest we get engaged?

Definitely. I know you probably may feel a little disappointment at not having the romantic and impromptu "will you.....?" but it really is incidental - my own Mr. Merkin proposed to me in bed one Saturday morning and it wasn't even a "Will you?" so much as a "When will we....?"

You love this man, he wants to father your children and you seem to be rock solid so tell him what you want. Tell him you want to get married to him because you love him so much and for that to happen before you have bubbas. Reassure him that it doesn't have to cost the Earth.

It's obviously important to you so you need to say it.

CaraMay

Why is it all about what he wants? Go after what you want and what's a deal breaker for you? You seem too passive and subservient in deciding your own future.

Idle Passerby

You've been together a few years and now all of a sudden he's in a big rush to have a baby? The sense of urgency seems a bit odd considering you two dont seem to have discussed marriage or kids much up until this point.

You appear to have a fairly stable relationship so it actually makes far more sense from his standpoint to be married to the mother of the child he's so keen to have.

The rights of single fathers are pretty tenuous from what I gather. Forget about the traditional chronology, he'd be looking after his own interests as well as yours to be married to you before trying for kids.

December2012

Why the 18 months wait?

LegacyUser

He asked that you both try for a baby. He told you he wants a couple of children before he is 40 and that they are not to young by then.
Why has this got so urgent to him? Are his friends having children/getting married or are people making comments about his lack of children as yet?

I would be honest with him and tell him you though he was going to propose to you due to some things he said/did over the past few months.

I would then say that you love him and that you always hope to be married before you had a family. I would also tell him that marriage gives him more legal rights in regards to any children you may have.
I would say to him if we had a baby who need an operation shortly after birth and I could not give consent the hospital would ask my parents as they would be regard as next of kin. Also as each other next of kin you would have far more legal rights if either of us died which would be important to the person left behind with the child/children.

Why would you have to wait 18 months before having baby if you got married?
You could get married in 3 months time plus and have a small wedding here or abroad.
I know a lot of couples who wanted children but they decided to get married before having them as they wanted there children to have as much legal rights as possible.

The reality is that it may take you some time to get pregnant. Most doctors will tell a woman to wait at least a year between pregnancies before having another child.
The reality of having 2 or 3 children together age wise is that it is hard going.
You will have a few years of disturbed sleep and you may find that after 1 or 2 children your don't want more. I have several friends with families and I have seen how hard it has been for them at times due to various things so to me having children is a big step.
I would be like you as would my friends in that they would have got married before having children.

Elbi

I was kind of in the same situation. I may have a few little problems trying to get pregnant and we both really want to have a family soon BUT we do want to be married first.
We decided that a family is more important than a big wedding so we are having a small wedding, close family only (about 40)
After all its a marriage that matters not a wedding.

Maybe suggest something like that to him.

Obliq

pipster wrote: »

Where I’m having trouble is that it’s not very clear cut. If he didn’t believe in marriage or we were broke then it’s easy to say let’s not do it and a child is the priority. But the problem is that he is has put out a suggestion that is different to my ideal situation but I’m willing to compromise on but I don’t know how to bring it up again without making him feel like he has to propose there and then.

I think I have to do something as I don’t want to just forget about it and keep going as we are as I would absolutely love to get married and have a child so if this is the opportunity to get that then maybe I have to encourage it.

I don’t like when women corner their man to get married so I’m trying to avoid that but obviously him bringing up the baby thing first reassures me he is ready anyway.

Aw OP, this fella couldn't get more committed to you than wanting to start a family now. The romantic gesture is maybe what's missing though, so please TOTALLY ask him yourself! It would be so amazing ....."Babe, I so want kids with you..and like you I want to start soon - but I want them to have the same surname as us both, so please will you be my husband? Marry me? Next week?"

I like it. You go girl! And that wouldn't be cornering - that would be asking. Romantically Aw!

Catphish

Obliq wrote: »

Aw OP, this fella couldn't get more committed to you than wanting to start a family now.

There are plenty of lone parents that may have an argument against this..


Op, I think you're right to stick to your guns. As others have said, if it's a deal breaker for you, then stick by it. Also echoing what others have said about an inexpensive civil ceremony, those can be lovely intimate events. Honestly, bring up this conversation again, and as was said previously give him the rights and surname angle to the discussion.

If it's something that is so important to you, don't let it go imo.

strandroad

OP do you want to get married or do you want a wedding? You could get married straight away, no need to wait 18 months, unless it's a big bash that you really want...
Would he be OK with a small ceremony very soon to secure your rights before you start trying for a baby?

Obliq

Catphish wrote: »

There are plenty of lone parents that may have an argument against this...

Yeah, I am one.

My argument is that if he's good enough for her, and she's good enough for him and they both want kids together, then in MY opinion, him expressing his wish to start a family IS a proper commitment. Any couple can fall apart if things aren't right, granted. The act of marriage doesn't stop that from happening.

You can't imply that a fella expressing an urge to start a family without first wanting to get married indicates some kind of flightiness or some bigger chance that he'll walk away. That's totally unfair to fellas.

pipster

OK so I spoke to him and basically he said he is ready now to try for a child but he needs more time to get married.

I don’t understand this to be honest which I said to him but he said he does want to get married but not yet and I should trust him.

I didn't want to go into it too much as I don’t want it to look like I’m pushing for marriage when he’s not ready. So all I can think is that he might be saving for a ring or he has a plan to propose in a while.

I don’t get why he asked for the baby first but unless that’s more important to him and if I said yes then we would agree that a wedding would be the 2nd priority.

Idle Passerby

Based on the above, I would push for more open discussion of his reasons. He may be waiting til he can afford it, but if thats the case he needs to make that clear to you.

You are obviously not keen to have a baby before marriage and you are perfectly entitled to feel that way and to put your foot down if necessary. You need to feel secure about your relationship and his commitment to it before bringing a baby into it. Its not like you are asking for something unusual or inconvenient.

I find it a little disconcerting that you are reluctant to talk more about it incase it seems like you are "pushing for marriage if he's not ready". Planning to have a baby together is a far more practical commitment than marriage. A marriage can be disolved. You cant change your mind about the child.

pipster

Idle Passerby wrote: »

Based on the above, I would push for more open discussion of his reasons. He may be waiting til he can afford it, but if thats the case he needs to make that clear to you.

You are obviously not keen to have a baby before marriage and you are perfectly entitled to feel that way and to put your foot down if necessary. You need to feel secure about your relationship and his commitment to it before bringing a baby into it. Its not like you are asking for something unusual or inconvenient.

I personally won't have a child before marriage if I had the choice so it won't happen. I will leave him be for a while in case he is planning something.

MagicMarker

pipster wrote: »

I didn't want to go into it too much

Ah here, if you want to marry this guy and have his children then you need to be able to communicate better. This is exactly the time to go into this "too much", sit hjm down and talk it out until you understand EXACTLY where it is he's coming from.

If you're unable to do this then you shouldn't be getting married at all tbh.

pipster wrote: »

I personally won't have a child before marriage if I had the choice so it won't happen. I will leave him be for a while in case he is planning something.

No, you need to tell him you won't have a child before getting married.

Merkin

MagicMarker wrote: »

Ah here, if you want to marry this guy and have his children then you need to be able to communicate better. This is exactly the time to go into this "too much", sit hjm down and talk it out until you understand EXACTLY where it is he's coming from.

I agree.

This is obviously hugely important to you OP and if you take a prolonged wait and see approach then you could be waiting and seeing for quite some time.

You need to be very candid about this and establish

a. why he is seeing marriage as a bigger commitment than having a child

b. what his reasons are for wanting to prolong this happening

c. If he does want to get married, what is his time line. Does he see you getting married in 2015? Or in five years time? Or some vague time in the future? If he is planning a proposal, can he guarantee it will be some time before the end of this year for example?

You both really need to be very clear that you're working off similar timelines and to similar goals so you can manage collective expectations and make sure neither of you feel you are being misled or your needs compromised.

The ONLY way of doing this is communicate more effectively which is not happening right now. You guys really need to sit down and thrash this out.

pipster

He knows that I won’t have a child before getting married. What I meant by “if I had the choice” was more if there was an unplanned pregnancy.

If I ask if we will be engaged by the end of the year, I would see that as putting pressure on him and I want him to do it when he is ready.

I believe something is brewing as in the last few months a lot of his friends bring it as if he was talking to them about it, I know he has spoken to one anyway. I can’t explain the child request in the meantime.

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

He knows that I won’t have a child before getting married.

THIS is what I find odd. He is suggesting you both have a child together and he knows you won't have one without being married but yet is not ready to marry you That kind of makes his words a little empty in a way.

Tiddlypeeps

His very strange reaction to being asked about marriage makes me think he wants to do the whole romantic proposal thing.

He knows where you stand about kids before marriage and he clearly wants to commit to you long term if he is talking about kids. So I'd leave it alone for now and see how things pan out in the next few months. There isn't much more you can do anyway, not unless this is a pressing enough issue to you that you'd be considering leaving him, but that doesn't sound like the case for the moment anyway.

pipster

Merkin wrote: »

THIS is what I find odd. He is suggesting you both have a child together and he knows you won't have one without being married but yet is not ready to marry you That kind of makes his words a little empty in a way.

I agree, it doesn't make sense to me either and all I can think is that he is saving for a ring or something.

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

I agree, it doesn't make sense to me either and all I can think is that he is saving for a ring or something.

It's a shame you're not able to discuss this with him.

Have you got a time in your head when you are hoping this will be? Like if he hasn't proposed in six months are you going to raise the issue again? Or will you wait a year? I think if you're not able to communicate this with him you should have a clear idea in your head of when you think this should happen by or it could drag on ad infinitum and you'll still be in the same position in a few years time and nothing has changed.

pipster

Merkin wrote: »

It's a shame you're not able to discuss this with him.

Have you got a time in your head when you are hoping this will be? Like if he hasn't proposed in six months are you going to raise the issue again? Or will you wait a year? I think if you're not able to communicate this with him you should have a clear idea in your head of when you think this should happen by or it could drag on ad infinitum and you'll still be in the same position in a few years time and nothing has changed.

I know its sad that we can't but I just don't want to put pressure on him. I'm his first proper long relationship so he has come a long way.

In my mind, I expect something to happen this year. The time in my head is October at the latest which is my birthday but would be very surprised if something didn't happen before then. If nothing happens by then I will have to say something. His friends all thought he would propose over Xmas so I think everyone will wonder what's going on.

Big Bag of Chips

I find it strange that as a couple you can't sit and talk about it. If he is planning a surprise why not tell you that he has a plan, but won't go into it... It'll still be a surprise when it happens. Even if it's not a surprise you will still be delighted.

Some couples "decide" to get married, rather than do the whole proposal thing. It doesn't make the getting/being engaged any less special. We decided to get married, and I was the happiest I could possibly be when we were officially engaged! A surprise proposal in a romantic location would have added nothing to my feelings of happiness and excitement.

You are obviously in a secure, committed relationship. This is something that you should be able to discuss with each other without feeling uneasy or like your pressuring each other.

meeeeh

As someone who considers marriage a bit redundant and archaic institution I don't really understand what is the problem. I know plenty of divorced people who did everything by the book and I'm very happy in my committed relationship with children.

In my opinion you two have to decide if one day is more important than the rest of your lives. Besides tgere is no time limit on getting married but there is time limit on having children.

CaraMay

So it's ok that he pressures you to have a baby but you can't 'pressure' him to get married?

Gongoozler

Seems like an unhealthy relationship to me. He wants children now, you want marriage first but he doesn't. Sounds like you've got different priorities.
You won't talk to him about this like an adult about the decision it is, but rather leave it up to him to decide he wants to marry you. You're holding back on having children till he'll marry you. Yeah, seems really quite immature to be honest.

As to why you won't try to children before marriage is beyond me. I expect there's a chance he may be doubting whether or not you want children with him at all. Are you sure he knows you won't have children before marriage? What other people will think isn't a legitimate reason to wait till married to have children.

LegacyUser

I could be wrong, and I don't mean to insult you OP - but it sounds like you are gambling with your future for the sake of a 'surprise' proposal & traditional wedding day.

You know you don't have to be married to have kids, but you are setting a pre-condition of marriage first, but you don't seem to want tell your partner about this.

You also talk about 'a wedding' rather than marriage. If you just want to be married first, you can do it cheaply within a few months.

It sounds like you are holding out for all the bells and whistles of a big traditional wedding before you'll have kids - but yet you won't communicate with your partner about this. It doesn't sound from what you've posted as though this is what he wants - but you don't know, because you won't have an open discussion with him!

That's why I say that you are gambling with your future. What are you going to do, dutifully wait around so that you can be 'surprised' by a proposal? Are you really going to let 'the story' of how you get engaged to dictate your future? It just seems like madness to me to do this - you know what you want, and how can you marry someone who you can't/won't talk to about your shared future?

What if he just doesn't feel the same about getting married? He might not want to, might not see it as a necessary or immediate thing, might feel that when you have a kid or two it would be better to get married to safeguard his legal rights - but not before. You can't get peed off with him if you don't communicate what you want - and not doing so is a terrible foundation for marriage.

pipster

We have spoken about the subject 3 times now in the space of 5 days but maybe my previous posts seemed that we hadn’t spoken at all. After the initial question to have a child now, he is aware that I want to get married first. I don’t need a big wedding, I have probably switched between saying wedding/marriage but it’s the proper marriage that I want.

A few days ago after I started this post, I went into the conversation thinking that we would agree to get married first but do it quick and cost effectively which would make us both happy. Unfortunately that’s when he said he needs more time before getting married but is ready now for a child. I can only think the reason for that is either money or him to just feel ready. He said to trust him and I was turning a nice question into something bad.

So it’s sad to say but I did suggest getting married and was shot down. I know people reading this will probably tell me to leave him now or something drastic like that. He is 31 and I will be 30 later this year so I am not waiting precious time as I’m still young enough. We have lived together for 3 years and been together for 5 which is also not really long either. I feel ready but after this length others mightn't.

Some responses have been quite harsh but I expect that in a forum and also on this type of topic but out of all the friends of mine that have gotten engaged, the girl felt ready 1st and then the guy did and proposed. I don’t want some story of how he proposed as that’s not what I or him are like. If he proposed then I would know he is ready and not that he went along with it.

Toots

It's weird that he's ready for a child but not ready for a marriage? That doesn't make any sense to me - he's not able to commit to spending his life with you but yet he wants to create a new life with you? Personally I'd be worried about why that is.

For a guy he's taking a huge risk having a child without being married because unfortunately unmarried fathers have little to no rights in this country, so if the worst were to happen and you guys split up he'd be in a terrible position. Especially if the breakup was acrimonious.

Do you think he's just saying that because he thinks deep down you want a white wedding and that you're only saying you'd be happy with the legal one and that's why he's saying not yet, because he wants to save? Have you suggested that you just go and get the 'piece of paper' and then have a wedding in a few years when you've had time to save up?

Honestly, I'd be sticking to your guns on this one. It's you that's going to be carrying the baby, and you that'll be left high and dry if he decides to bail when the baby arrives and things get tough, because the first few months of a baby's life are stressful and can put a strain on any relationship.

pipster

Toots* wrote: »

It's weird that he's ready for a child but not ready for a marriage? That doesn't make any sense to me - he's not able to commit to spending his life with you but yet he wants to create a new life with you? Personally I'd be worried about why that is.

For a guy he's taking a huge risk having a child without being married because unfortunately unmarried fathers have little to no rights in this country, so if the worst were to happen and you guys split up he'd be in a terrible position. Especially if the breakup was acrimonious.

Do you think he's just saying that because he thinks deep down you want a white wedding and that you're only saying you'd be happy with the legal one and that's why he's saying not yet, because he wants to save? Have you suggested that you just go and get the 'piece of paper' and then have a wedding in a few years when you've had time to save up?

Honestly, I'd be sticking to your guns on this one. It's you that's going to be carrying the baby, and you that'll be left high and dry if he decides to bail when the baby arrives and things get tough, because the first few months of a baby's life are stressful and can put a strain on any relationship.

You have hit the nail on the head of my thoughts exactly.

He doesn't think I want a big white wedding. He's not broke or anything but he's frugal so I can see that he doesn't want to waste money. I am not as extreme as him but I am much better with my spending. He would have to save for the ring but we would be in a decent situation for a wedding or a child for that matter as I have good savings due to a house deposit I didn't use.

Toots

pipster wrote: »

You have hit the nail on the head of my thoughts exactly.

He doesn't think I want a big white wedding. He's not broke or anything but he's frugal so I can see that he doesn't want to waste money. I am not as extreme as him but I am much better with my spending. He would have to save for the ring but we would be in a decent situation for a wedding or a child for that matter as I have good savings due to a house deposit I didn't use.

Have you actually said to him "we are not having a baby until we are married"? Tell him that, not as a way to pressure him but so that he doesn't have any doubts about whether you'll change your mind.

pipster

Toots* wrote: »

Have you actually said to him "we are not having a baby until we are married"? Tell him that, not as a way to pressure him but so that he doesn't have any doubts about whether you'll change your mind.

Yes he knows that. I haven't taken the pill in his face or anything but he knows yes

Toots

Sounds like a bit of a Mexican Standoff so. I'm not suggesting you just jump up and leave him but have you considered how long you'll wait around for him to be 'ready' to get married? 30 is still young, but unfortunately we women are under time constraints when it comes to fertility

Merkin

Just from reading through your posts Pipster, it seems like there is a lot of conjecture as to why he doesn't want to marry you at the moment but you are still left none the wiser. You've now had a number of conversations (with little actual communication) on the topic but he hasn't actually been forthcoming as to why this is an issue for him. And that is the crux of the issue.

You said it might be because he is frugal, he may be planning a big surprise, he maybe just needs more time but I'd want to know definitely WHY he doesn't want to marry you at the moment. He hasn't actually said why and I think if you knew the exact reason then you'd be in a better position to move forward and feel happier. I'd be inclined to push for an answer because it's a total contradiction in terms to be ready for a child and not ready for marriage considering how they are both huge commitments.