He wants baby, I want wedding

MagicMarker

pipster wrote: »

I didn't want to go into it too much

Ah here, if you want to marry this guy and have his children then you need to be able to communicate better. This is exactly the time to go into this "too much", sit hjm down and talk it out until you understand EXACTLY where it is he's coming from.

If you're unable to do this then you shouldn't be getting married at all tbh.

pipster wrote: »

I personally won't have a child before marriage if I had the choice so it won't happen. I will leave him be for a while in case he is planning something.

No, you need to tell him you won't have a child before getting married.

Merkin

MagicMarker wrote: »

Ah here, if you want to marry this guy and have his children then you need to be able to communicate better. This is exactly the time to go into this "too much", sit hjm down and talk it out until you understand EXACTLY where it is he's coming from.

I agree.

This is obviously hugely important to you OP and if you take a prolonged wait and see approach then you could be waiting and seeing for quite some time.

You need to be very candid about this and establish

a. why he is seeing marriage as a bigger commitment than having a child

b. what his reasons are for wanting to prolong this happening

c. If he does want to get married, what is his time line. Does he see you getting married in 2015? Or in five years time? Or some vague time in the future? If he is planning a proposal, can he guarantee it will be some time before the end of this year for example?

You both really need to be very clear that you're working off similar timelines and to similar goals so you can manage collective expectations and make sure neither of you feel you are being misled or your needs compromised.

The ONLY way of doing this is communicate more effectively which is not happening right now. You guys really need to sit down and thrash this out.

pipster

He knows that I won’t have a child before getting married. What I meant by “if I had the choice” was more if there was an unplanned pregnancy.

If I ask if we will be engaged by the end of the year, I would see that as putting pressure on him and I want him to do it when he is ready.

I believe something is brewing as in the last few months a lot of his friends bring it as if he was talking to them about it, I know he has spoken to one anyway. I can’t explain the child request in the meantime.

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

He knows that I won’t have a child before getting married.

THIS is what I find odd. He is suggesting you both have a child together and he knows you won't have one without being married but yet is not ready to marry you That kind of makes his words a little empty in a way.

Tiddlypeeps

His very strange reaction to being asked about marriage makes me think he wants to do the whole romantic proposal thing.

He knows where you stand about kids before marriage and he clearly wants to commit to you long term if he is talking about kids. So I'd leave it alone for now and see how things pan out in the next few months. There isn't much more you can do anyway, not unless this is a pressing enough issue to you that you'd be considering leaving him, but that doesn't sound like the case for the moment anyway.

pipster

Merkin wrote: »

THIS is what I find odd. He is suggesting you both have a child together and he knows you won't have one without being married but yet is not ready to marry you That kind of makes his words a little empty in a way.

I agree, it doesn't make sense to me either and all I can think is that he is saving for a ring or something.

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

I agree, it doesn't make sense to me either and all I can think is that he is saving for a ring or something.

It's a shame you're not able to discuss this with him.

Have you got a time in your head when you are hoping this will be? Like if he hasn't proposed in six months are you going to raise the issue again? Or will you wait a year? I think if you're not able to communicate this with him you should have a clear idea in your head of when you think this should happen by or it could drag on ad infinitum and you'll still be in the same position in a few years time and nothing has changed.

pipster

Merkin wrote: »

It's a shame you're not able to discuss this with him.

Have you got a time in your head when you are hoping this will be? Like if he hasn't proposed in six months are you going to raise the issue again? Or will you wait a year? I think if you're not able to communicate this with him you should have a clear idea in your head of when you think this should happen by or it could drag on ad infinitum and you'll still be in the same position in a few years time and nothing has changed.

I know its sad that we can't but I just don't want to put pressure on him. I'm his first proper long relationship so he has come a long way.

In my mind, I expect something to happen this year. The time in my head is October at the latest which is my birthday but would be very surprised if something didn't happen before then. If nothing happens by then I will have to say something. His friends all thought he would propose over Xmas so I think everyone will wonder what's going on.

Big Bag of Chips

I find it strange that as a couple you can't sit and talk about it. If he is planning a surprise why not tell you that he has a plan, but won't go into it... It'll still be a surprise when it happens. Even if it's not a surprise you will still be delighted.

Some couples "decide" to get married, rather than do the whole proposal thing. It doesn't make the getting/being engaged any less special. We decided to get married, and I was the happiest I could possibly be when we were officially engaged! A surprise proposal in a romantic location would have added nothing to my feelings of happiness and excitement.

You are obviously in a secure, committed relationship. This is something that you should be able to discuss with each other without feeling uneasy or like your pressuring each other.

meeeeh

As someone who considers marriage a bit redundant and archaic institution I don't really understand what is the problem. I know plenty of divorced people who did everything by the book and I'm very happy in my committed relationship with children.

In my opinion you two have to decide if one day is more important than the rest of your lives. Besides tgere is no time limit on getting married but there is time limit on having children.

CaraMay

So it's ok that he pressures you to have a baby but you can't 'pressure' him to get married?

Gongoozler

Seems like an unhealthy relationship to me. He wants children now, you want marriage first but he doesn't. Sounds like you've got different priorities.
You won't talk to him about this like an adult about the decision it is, but rather leave it up to him to decide he wants to marry you. You're holding back on having children till he'll marry you. Yeah, seems really quite immature to be honest.

As to why you won't try to children before marriage is beyond me. I expect there's a chance he may be doubting whether or not you want children with him at all. Are you sure he knows you won't have children before marriage? What other people will think isn't a legitimate reason to wait till married to have children.

LegacyUser

I could be wrong, and I don't mean to insult you OP - but it sounds like you are gambling with your future for the sake of a 'surprise' proposal & traditional wedding day.

You know you don't have to be married to have kids, but you are setting a pre-condition of marriage first, but you don't seem to want tell your partner about this.

You also talk about 'a wedding' rather than marriage. If you just want to be married first, you can do it cheaply within a few months.

It sounds like you are holding out for all the bells and whistles of a big traditional wedding before you'll have kids - but yet you won't communicate with your partner about this. It doesn't sound from what you've posted as though this is what he wants - but you don't know, because you won't have an open discussion with him!

That's why I say that you are gambling with your future. What are you going to do, dutifully wait around so that you can be 'surprised' by a proposal? Are you really going to let 'the story' of how you get engaged to dictate your future? It just seems like madness to me to do this - you know what you want, and how can you marry someone who you can't/won't talk to about your shared future?

What if he just doesn't feel the same about getting married? He might not want to, might not see it as a necessary or immediate thing, might feel that when you have a kid or two it would be better to get married to safeguard his legal rights - but not before. You can't get peed off with him if you don't communicate what you want - and not doing so is a terrible foundation for marriage.

pipster

We have spoken about the subject 3 times now in the space of 5 days but maybe my previous posts seemed that we hadn’t spoken at all. After the initial question to have a child now, he is aware that I want to get married first. I don’t need a big wedding, I have probably switched between saying wedding/marriage but it’s the proper marriage that I want.

A few days ago after I started this post, I went into the conversation thinking that we would agree to get married first but do it quick and cost effectively which would make us both happy. Unfortunately that’s when he said he needs more time before getting married but is ready now for a child. I can only think the reason for that is either money or him to just feel ready. He said to trust him and I was turning a nice question into something bad.

So it’s sad to say but I did suggest getting married and was shot down. I know people reading this will probably tell me to leave him now or something drastic like that. He is 31 and I will be 30 later this year so I am not waiting precious time as I’m still young enough. We have lived together for 3 years and been together for 5 which is also not really long either. I feel ready but after this length others mightn't.

Some responses have been quite harsh but I expect that in a forum and also on this type of topic but out of all the friends of mine that have gotten engaged, the girl felt ready 1st and then the guy did and proposed. I don’t want some story of how he proposed as that’s not what I or him are like. If he proposed then I would know he is ready and not that he went along with it.

Toots

It's weird that he's ready for a child but not ready for a marriage? That doesn't make any sense to me - he's not able to commit to spending his life with you but yet he wants to create a new life with you? Personally I'd be worried about why that is.

For a guy he's taking a huge risk having a child without being married because unfortunately unmarried fathers have little to no rights in this country, so if the worst were to happen and you guys split up he'd be in a terrible position. Especially if the breakup was acrimonious.

Do you think he's just saying that because he thinks deep down you want a white wedding and that you're only saying you'd be happy with the legal one and that's why he's saying not yet, because he wants to save? Have you suggested that you just go and get the 'piece of paper' and then have a wedding in a few years when you've had time to save up?

Honestly, I'd be sticking to your guns on this one. It's you that's going to be carrying the baby, and you that'll be left high and dry if he decides to bail when the baby arrives and things get tough, because the first few months of a baby's life are stressful and can put a strain on any relationship.

pipster

Toots* wrote: »

It's weird that he's ready for a child but not ready for a marriage? That doesn't make any sense to me - he's not able to commit to spending his life with you but yet he wants to create a new life with you? Personally I'd be worried about why that is.

For a guy he's taking a huge risk having a child without being married because unfortunately unmarried fathers have little to no rights in this country, so if the worst were to happen and you guys split up he'd be in a terrible position. Especially if the breakup was acrimonious.

Do you think he's just saying that because he thinks deep down you want a white wedding and that you're only saying you'd be happy with the legal one and that's why he's saying not yet, because he wants to save? Have you suggested that you just go and get the 'piece of paper' and then have a wedding in a few years when you've had time to save up?

Honestly, I'd be sticking to your guns on this one. It's you that's going to be carrying the baby, and you that'll be left high and dry if he decides to bail when the baby arrives and things get tough, because the first few months of a baby's life are stressful and can put a strain on any relationship.

You have hit the nail on the head of my thoughts exactly.

He doesn't think I want a big white wedding. He's not broke or anything but he's frugal so I can see that he doesn't want to waste money. I am not as extreme as him but I am much better with my spending. He would have to save for the ring but we would be in a decent situation for a wedding or a child for that matter as I have good savings due to a house deposit I didn't use.

Toots

pipster wrote: »

You have hit the nail on the head of my thoughts exactly.

He doesn't think I want a big white wedding. He's not broke or anything but he's frugal so I can see that he doesn't want to waste money. I am not as extreme as him but I am much better with my spending. He would have to save for the ring but we would be in a decent situation for a wedding or a child for that matter as I have good savings due to a house deposit I didn't use.

Have you actually said to him "we are not having a baby until we are married"? Tell him that, not as a way to pressure him but so that he doesn't have any doubts about whether you'll change your mind.

pipster

Toots* wrote: »

Have you actually said to him "we are not having a baby until we are married"? Tell him that, not as a way to pressure him but so that he doesn't have any doubts about whether you'll change your mind.

Yes he knows that. I haven't taken the pill in his face or anything but he knows yes

Toots

Sounds like a bit of a Mexican Standoff so. I'm not suggesting you just jump up and leave him but have you considered how long you'll wait around for him to be 'ready' to get married? 30 is still young, but unfortunately we women are under time constraints when it comes to fertility

Merkin

Just from reading through your posts Pipster, it seems like there is a lot of conjecture as to why he doesn't want to marry you at the moment but you are still left none the wiser. You've now had a number of conversations (with little actual communication) on the topic but he hasn't actually been forthcoming as to why this is an issue for him. And that is the crux of the issue.

You said it might be because he is frugal, he may be planning a big surprise, he maybe just needs more time but I'd want to know definitely WHY he doesn't want to marry you at the moment. He hasn't actually said why and I think if you knew the exact reason then you'd be in a better position to move forward and feel happier. I'd be inclined to push for an answer because it's a total contradiction in terms to be ready for a child and not ready for marriage considering how they are both huge commitments.

pipster

I agree, I haven’t a clue what’s going on. I know that I should be able to talk to him about it based on the recent child proposal but I guess I still think I shouldn't bring it up as it could be seen as putting pressure on him OR it turns into a conversation that if he doesn't know now that he wants to be with me then that’s not a good thing. He says a lot of things like “When we get married…” and he has said that he wants to but needs a bit of time.

I have been off for the last couple of days and he knew it was about this. I said that I can’t jump back to normality when he wants me to carry a child for him but he needs more time to know he wants to end up with me. He said I've changed things from good to bad and that it wasn't meant in a bad way and doesn't want to talk the subject to death.

So he is not being very reasonable about it and therefore all I think I can do is wait for a little bit and see does he bring it up and I set a timeline that I feel it needs to be discussed again.

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

I agree, I haven’t a clue what’s going on. I know that I should be able to talk to him about it based on the recent child proposal but I guess I still think I shouldn't bring it up as it could be seen as putting pressure on him OR it turns into a conversation that if he doesn't know now that he wants to be with me then that’s not a good thing.

Whooaaaaah now. That is worrying. If you feel that your relationship is that tenuous then that's not good at all m'dear.

Are you fearful of pushing this issue for fear of rocking the boat? Afraid of what his answer will be? Is this what this is about? Because if you genuinely think that your relationship may be in jeopardy then you need to tackle it head on. You can't just pussyfoot around such a massive subject because you're afraid he'll dump you or say he never wants to marry you. Surely you want to know, even if the answer could potentially be painful for you?

pipster

I am a little paranoid as a friend of mine asked the question after 10 years and they broke up. I don’t think we will break up and I don’t think he doesn’t want to marry me but he is stubborn and I think he wants to decide when.

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

I am a little paranoid as a friend of mine asked the question after 10 years and they broke up.

But they didn't break up because she asked the question! They obviously broke up because it brought the matter to a head and he obviously realized he didn't want to marry her after all. So to not ask the question but be fearful of what the answer is going to be will make for a very unhappy time ahead. Don't just bury the issue for fear of what the outcome could be because that's just self deception of the worst order.

Look, if your relationship is otherwise happy etc, then there is no reason why he won't want to commit to you. But talking about it ad nauseum without actually communicating a. how important it is to you and b. how for your peace of mind you need concrete assurances is just going to make for an unhappy and strained time ahead. You need to talk to him and when I say talk, I really mean TALK truthfully and directly.

MagicMarker

pipster wrote: »

I am a little paranoid as a friend of mine asked the question after 10 years and they broke up. I don’t think we will break up and I don’t think he doesn’t want to marry me but he is stubborn and I think he wants to decide when.

So if he decides he doesn't want to get married for another 5 years, and you don't want kids before you marry, then where does that leave you?

Neyite

I'm sorry, but he really needs to cop the hell on now.

I said that I can’t jump back to normality when he wants me to carry a child for him but he needs more time to know he wants to end up with me. He said I've changed things from good to bad and that it wasn't meant in a bad way and doesn't want to talk the subject to death.

So he is not being very reasonable about it and therefore all I think I can do is wait for a little bit and see does he bring it up and I set a timeline that I feel it needs to be discussed again.

He wants a child but is stonewalling you on i) why the big rush and ii) your quite valid question as to why you cant get married first. Then, he tries to blame YOU for making it 'awkward' for him to discuss it. He is basically annoyed that you didnt jump up and down at his spontaneous idea of having a baby and didnt expect that you'd have a couple of clarifying questions first?? Ooh, I'm annoyed with him now. :pac:

Does he realise that a baby is a tad more than just an accessory to have just because his mates have one?

That, when you decide have a child, it requires full and frank communication about how you want that future for that child to be? That how, if he cannot discuss the (quite frankly, perfectly reasonable) subject of formalising your relationship prior to you having said baby how on earth are you going to discuss things like medical decisions, baptisims, schooling, styles of parenting, even day to day things like sleep training or how to wean your baby onto solids!! There are countless parenting methods to choose from when rearing your children to discuss down the line.

I'd be telling h im that when he grows up himself and can discuss your mutual future and that of your future children like a grownup instead of throwing the toys out of his pram, you will consider having a baby with him.

CaraMay

Whoa... He is bring incredibly manipulative by twisting this to make you feel bad for asking for what you want. Don't agree to anything you don't want with this guy.

I just can't understand why he wants kids with someone when he doesn't know if he wants to be with them to see the child grow up. Wtf?

pipster

Thanks for the responses, I very much appreciate them. It clarifies that I’m not being demanding and he is being selfish in what he wants and doesn’t want to talk about but lands me with a huge commitment question.

Obliq

pipster wrote: »

Thanks for the responses, I very much appreciate them. It clarifies that I’m not being demanding and he is being selfish in what he wants and doesn’t want to talk about but lands me with a huge commitment question.

Having read on since I was working on the thought that you were just hanging about, waiting to be asked, and now can see he's giving a masterclass in avoidance of addressing your concerns, I suggest getting a 6 month prescription of your contraception of choice and leave it prominently on the table :pac:

As you say, it's a question of commitment and you do have time. He must know by this stage that if he's feeling broody, you are going to be having this conversation again....

Merkin

pipster wrote: »

Thanks for the responses, I very much appreciate them. It clarifies that I’m not being demanding and he is being selfish in what he wants and doesn’t want to talk about but lands me with a huge commitment question.

Which I am sure must be a somewhat terrifying proposition. Hopefully it's just a case that he simply needs a kick up the arse and realizes how important this is to you.

If, on the other hand, he has fundamental commitment issues and ultimately does not want what you want, then I guarantee you that you are better off finding out now at 29 then hanging around waiting for a proposal and still being in the same position in ten years time. There are enough threads on RI pertaining to this very issue that will confirm why talking about it NOW is a good idea.

You need to have that difficult conversation and I'd urge you to do it sooner rather than later.