How to get car back on the road with car tax arrears?

Busted Flat.

narmst wrote: »

I've been out of work for some time (doing some training to get a qualification to get something) and I've had the car off the road. I'm in Kildare and public transport to work isn't an option.

My car was last taxed in June 12 and the back tax / arrears is now about €1500.
I didn't declare the car off the road. In retrospect I know this was stupid but I was sending CVs while doing the course and hoped that I'd get something.
Anyway .. that's the situation and I have to deal with it.

My problem is that I can't afford the €1500 car tax but I still need to get the car on the road for interviews and hope to start back to work very soon (there's a few iron's in the fire).

I've asked at my local garage about the possibility of paying the arrears in stages at the motor tax office and he just laughed .. wondering if anyone know if they offer this options under any circumstance?

My other option would be to sell the car and buy a banger .. but really that isn't a runner as if I don't have the €1500 for arrears I don't have it for a banger.

The last options .. and this is why I'm writing .. I've read on the Irish Indo that there's been a huge jump in people selling their cars and the new owner not having to pay the past tax and arrears. Please don't write a lot of hate replies/spam saying I'm trying to avoid road tax .. I'm not .. if I could pay the arrears now I would .. if there was a way to pay in stages I would .. but without those options what can I do?

Does anyone know if it's possible to sell the car to a friend .. ask her to tax it for a year .. then buy it back? When I then go to tax it in my name would the arrears be waiting for me? Actually I don't mind if they are .. as that will give me the opportunity to save up and pay it .. again I'm not trying to avoid car tax .. but I'd like to know that it would be waiting because then I know I've got to put aside €125 per month to then tax the car in month 13.

If anyone knows any gottya's with this plan I'd appreciate it.
If anyone knows any way I can get my car on the road any other way again I'd appreciate it.

The friend would have to insure it as well a put you on as a named driver.

Dee light1

Ya too much hassle! so best just tax wen comes back in your own name again?

Diemos

narmst wrote: »

My other option would be to sell the car and buy a banger .. but really that isn't a runner as if I don't have the €1500 for arrears I don't have it for a banger.

But but but......if you sell your car you will have money to buy a banger......

Beggars and choosers etc.

Wicklabman

Ok thanks for that. So would there be any issue when I go to tax it after that, as I will have been insured for a long time before "owning" the car

Dee light1

I wouldn't think so if was an issue u just say u never cancelled insurance as sale fell thru so continuing on same policy pre sale

Dee light1

If u google independant.ie-Irish news-thousands-use-loophole-to-avoid-motor-tax-arrears it says it's not illegal to do this

bmwguy

As everyone else has said, work away. Enough tax to pay without back paying tax. I have a lovely Peugeot 406 coupe that owes over a grand at this stage, if I ever do want to drive it again I'll transfer to my brother then swiftly back again

Jesus.

Sell it and buy it back. Anyone saying its not moral honestly must be having a laugh!

Renegade Mechanic

Jesus. wrote: »

Sell it and buy it back. Anyone saying its not moral honestly must be having a laugh!

I have a jeep parked up with about 3k plus of a tax bill waiting for me. Probably be 4 before it goes back on. Im in talks with the credit union now for a loan :pac:

Sam Kade

My sister in law bought a car at a main dealer in April and the tax was out in Jan the garage had to back tax it. I also know a man that was trading in his car to a garage that was out of tax and they told him to tax it for 3 months. Change of ownership didn't work in those cases

Dee light1

Think that May be because of a garage being involved would have to be all sorted for a sale or a trade in. I traded in a car with year bak tax and garage said he'd sort an I never heard anymore so dunno maybe diff garages diff rules ? ????

quadrifoglio verde

Sam Kade wrote: »

My sister in law bought a car at a main dealer in April and the tax was out in Jan the garage had to back tax it. I also know a man that was trading in his car to a garage that was out of tax and they told him to tax it for 3 months. Change of ownership didn't work in those cases

The man got screwed over by the garage in that one.
If you are going to sell it to your friend for sandwich etc it's only really worth doing on a car with a high number of owners or that's old. No point in doing it on a 3 year old merc where the number of owners can affect the selling price

ironclaw

Jesus. wrote: »

Sell it and buy it back. Anyone saying its not moral honestly must be having a laugh!

With all due respect, its that overall attitude of denial of responsibility that has our world and country in the state its in. In the words of Fr. Stack "I had my fun and thats all that matters"

Irregardless of where the money for motor tax goes, or how unfair it is as a system (And I agree, it is!) or how its misspent, every motorist has an obligation to pay it. Its part and parcel of being on the road. By not paying it, you're basically ignoring your obligation (And the law) and sticking two fingers up to the rest of us who share the road with you. Economically, and I have no idea how this is done in the tax office, but if you owe them €3k and you decide not to pay it, that €3k has to be accounted for and written off. It just doesn't disappear because John down the road sold his car to avoid paying it. Someone, somewhere has to pick up the line of credit.

On a small scale, your operating like the banks who owe millions. Trying to walk away from credit you owe to society. And although its perfectly legal (No argument there) its completely morally objectionable in my eyes.

Sam Kade

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

The man got screwed over by the garage in that one.

It was a fair sh!t bucket that he was trading in.

roofer1988

ironclaw wrote: »

With all due respect, its that overall attitude of denial of responsibility that has our world and country in the state its in. In the words of Fr. Stack "I had my fun and thats all that matters"

Irregardless of where the money for motor tax goes, or how unfair it is as a system (And I agree, it is!) or how its misspent, every motorist has an obligation to pay it. Its part and parcel of being on the road. By not paying it, you're basically ignoring your obligation (And the law) and sticking two fingers up to the rest of us who share the road with you. Economically, and I have no idea how this is done in the tax office, but if you owe them €3k and you decide not to pay it, that €3k has to be accounted for and written off. It just doesn't disappear because John down the road sold his car to avoid paying it. Someone, somewhere has to pick up the line of credit.

On a small scale, your operating like the banks who owe millions. Trying to walk away from credit you owe to society. And although its perfectly legal (No argument there) its completely morally objectionable in my eyes.

No one has to pick up the tab some where down the line.Its not like someone was providing a service or goods, where there is money outstanding on supplies so your comment makes no sense,tax is high enough on petrol and diesel and VAT and VRT when you buy the car. Government cant have it every way

Dee light1

ironclaw wrote: »

With all due respect, its that overall attitude of denial of responsibility that has our world and country in the state its in. In the words of Fr. Stack "I had my fun and thats all that matters"

Irregardless of where the money for motor tax goes, or how unfair it is as a system (And I agree, it is!) or how its misspent, every motorist has an obligation to pay it. Its part and parcel of being on the road. By not paying it, you're basically ignoring your obligation (And the law) and sticking two fingers up to the rest of us who share the road with you. Economically, and I have no idea how this is done in the tax office, but if you owe them €3k and you decide not to pay it, that €3k has to be accounted for and written off. It just doesn't disappear because John down the road sold his car to avoid paying it. Someone, somewhere has to pick up the line of credit.

On a small scale, your operating like the banks who owe millions. Trying to walk away from credit you owe to society. And although its perfectly legal (No argument there) its completely morally objectionable in my eyes.

Jaysus the country won't go into recession at all if I don't pay my back tax so calm down lol and my car was genuinely off road but I was unable to give them 3 months notice that it would be so that's down to their stupid new laws which are making people resort to this!

Renegade Mechanic

roofer1988 wrote: »

No one has to pick up the tab some where down the line.Its not like someone was providing a service or goods, where there is money outstanding on supplies so your comment makes no sense,tax is high enough on petrol and diesel and VAT and VRT when you buy the car. Government cant have it every way

Ah hah hah hah hah, true but whatch them bloody try!:D

bmwguy

ironclaw wrote: »

With all due respect, its that overall attitude of denial of responsibility that has our world and country in the state its in. In the words of Fr. Stack "I had my fun and thats all that matters"

Irregardless of where the money for motor tax goes, or how unfair it is as a system (And I agree, it is!) or how its misspent, every motorist has an obligation to pay it. Its part and parcel of being on the road. By not paying it, you're basically ignoring your obligation (And the law) and sticking two fingers up to the rest of us who share the road with you. Economically, and I have no idea how this is done in the tax office, but if you owe them €3k and you decide not to pay it, that €3k has to be accounted for and written off. It just doesn't disappear because John down the road sold his car to avoid paying it. Someone, somewhere has to pick up the line of credit.

On a small scale, your operating like the banks who owe millions. Trying to walk away from credit you owe to society. And although its perfectly legal (No argument there) its completely morally objectionable in my eyes.

Are you serious? Nobody picks up this tab! It does just disappear because John down the road didnt pay his tax. Question to you ironclaw, if you were in this situation would you pay? Honestly now.

ironclaw

bmwguy wrote: »

Are you serious? Nobody picks up this tab! It does just disappear because John down the road didnt pay his tax. Question to you ironclaw, if you were in this situation would you pay? Honestly now.

Yes, I would. Genuinely. If I couldn't afford the car, I'd sell it or declare it off the road to avoid paying the back tax in the first place. I could probably avoid paying my income tax, wait til I have a nice nest egg and high tail it out of the country. Its the same thing. Its just walking away from a responsibility to society and the rules we all have to follow (Fairly or unfairly as they may be)

Financial forecasting in any department would be done based on actual income and with a degree of speculative forecasting based on income from tax arrears / money owed. Obviously you can't bank on money you don't have, but if there was a significant amount of back tax owed to the department and its just constantly getting wiped out by people doing exactly this, long term planning etc becomes impossible. And we all suffer as a result. To say that someone just draws a line through what you owe and that has no effect elsewhere is nonsense.

Just my view lads, I can see the other side as well. Its like the keying of cars in the other threads, people just decide what social norms to follow and which ones to ignore. In the end, it costs someone somewhere something.

quadrifoglio verde

Very noble of you. However if I can find a way to legally reduce my tax liabilities for the year I bloody well will. It's not my fault that there are loopholes in the system and any loophole that can be exploited, I'll exploit.

Jesus.

ironclaw wrote: »

With all due respect, its that overall attitude of denial of responsibility that has our world and country in the state its in. In the words of Fr. Stack "I had my fun and thats all that matters"

...people just decide what social norms to follow and which ones to ignore. In the end, it costs someone somewhere something.

With all due respect but its that overall attitude of barefaced hypocrisy that has our World in the state its in!

You've just said on another thread that you've just driven right across the USA doing crazy speeds (well over 100 mph in many cases I'd suspect) in the Gumball Run. Yet you come on here pontificating about a guy trying not to be shafted for a few quid. He's endangering nobodies life doing what he's doing.

I've no problem a'tall with what you did but its just typical of the High Horse Brigade on here. Hypocrites one and all.

In the words of Fr. Stack "I had my fun and thats all that matters"

daveohdave

I'd love to know who was justifying it as legal in the Indo, to me it looks like clear tax evasion. I'm not even sure it should be considered motor tax any more, SORN is hardly complicated or difficult. It's a tax on stupidity and/or laziness.

I hope they start chasing people for the tax not paid before a change of ownership. They'd be perfectly entitled to do it, it's clearly unpaid tax.

And no, I'm not wumming. And yes, I would pay the arrears, because I wouldn't be so stupid as to let it go on for more than a quarter.

Dee light1

daveohdave wrote: »

I'd love to know who was justifying it as legal in the Indo, to me it looks like clear tax evasion. I'm not even sure it should be considered motor tax any more, SORN is hardly complicated or difficult. It's a tax on stupidity and/or laziness.

I hope they start chasing people for the tax not paid before a change of ownership. They'd be perfectly entitled to do it, it's clearly unpaid tax.

And no, I'm not wumming. And yes, I would pay the arrears, because I wouldn't be so stupid as to let it go on for more than a quarter.

Paul melia was the journalist google the article when your done preaching and telling us how righteous a human being you are!

PurvesGrundy

ironclaw wrote: »

Irregardless of where the money for motor tax goes, or how unfair it is as a system (And I agree, it is!) or how its misspent, every motorist has an obligation to pay it. Its part and parcel of being on the road. By not paying it, you're basically ignoring your obligation (And the law) and sticking two fingers up to the rest of us who share the road with you.

That argument would only ever be valid if every motorist paid the same rate of motor tax. They don't, as we are all well aware that the difference between one car's tax rate and another could be multiplied by ten.

Dee light1

Wikipedia :
Tax avoidance is the legal usage of the tax regime to one's own advantage, to reduce the amount of tax that is payable by means that are within the law.

pablo128

Ahhhh. God be with the days of '3 on - 3 off'. In Clondalkin Garda station they would come out to the counter with the stamper already in their hand.
Good times.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

daveohdave wrote: »

I'd love to know who was justifying it as legal in the Indo, to me it looks like clear tax evasion. I'm not even sure it should be considered motor tax any more, SORN is hardly complicated or difficult. It's a tax on stupidity and/or laziness.

I hope they start chasing people for the tax not paid before a change of ownership. They'd be perfectly entitled to do it, it's clearly unpaid tax.

And no, I'm not wumming. And yes, I would pay the arrears, because I wouldn't be so stupid as to let it go on for more than a quarter.

It's avoiding tax using an existing legal loophole, so it is not actually tax evasion, nor is it illegal!
Also, as tax arrears only become due when you go to back tax the car, if you never tax it again technically no arrears become due at all, so you actually don't owe anything and there are no arrears to "be chased" if you sell the car on.

Renegade Mechanic

daveohdave wrote: »

I'd love to know who was justifying it as legal in the Indo, to me it looks like clear tax evasion. I'm not even sure it should be considered motor tax any more, SORN is hardly complicated or difficult. It's a tax on stupidity and/or laziness.

I hope they start chasing people for the tax not paid before a change of ownership. They'd be perfectly entitled to do it, it's clearly unpaid tax.

And no, I'm not wumming. And yes, I would pay the arrears, because I wouldn't be so stupid as to let it go on for more than a quarter.

It is clearly unpaid tax if the vehicle was in use...
If the vehicle was off the road, like my two, then no. No, it isn't tax evasion. They didn't use the road, Im not paying.

daveohdave

And you didn't SORD it because?

Renegade Mechanic

pablo128 wrote: »

Ahhhh. God be with the days of '3 on - 3 off'. In Clondalkin Garda station they would come out to the counter with the stamper already in their hand.
Good times.

Yeah. Those gob****es are what ruined it for everyone one and brought this new system into place. Still every bit as uneffective as ever- Now you just declared your car off the road before you carry on driving. You still drive without tax, just like the old system. You still take the chance of getting caught/getting away, just like the old system. And you still "put your car back on the road" if you get away with it. Just like the old system. But hey. Let em think theyre doing something other than making real tax evasion very slightly more annoying to do.