Friesian cross bull calves

Greengrass1

knockmulliner wrote: »

can't see what wrong with that. Bought a tank lately , some teething problems after power cuts, satisfactory response.

What about serviceing? Can your local man fix it?

knockmulliner

And all over a few jx bull calves.



Been told a guy not far from me is killing them and delivering them to a knackers and paying 10 € per head.

where do we go next.

Sam Kade

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Have no one to back me up about crossbreds now.
I may go Holstein

What about jersey, is he gone as well?

Reggie.

Sam Kade wrote: »

What about jersey, is he gone as well?

Green is jersey sam

Farmer Pudsey

knockmulliner wrote: »

And all over a few jx bull calves.



Been told a guy not far from me is killing them and delivering them to a knackers and paying 10 € per head.

where do we go next.

It is only the start of a cycle. I hope i am wrong but I can see HO bull calves following in a year or so. This all goes back to the bull beef debacle. Loads of finishers have had there confidance snaped by the carry on this year. I do not totally blame the factory's but rather the control the supermarkets exert over the food production system.

In the Irish grass based system cattle have to be either allowed time to grow especially dairy cross cattle or we have to be allowed to finish bulls during the winter. I think it is terribleally hard on any farmer to be facing the present decision that some dairy farmers have.

I actually think that Crossbred cows have a place in the system in an extensive grass based system and in area's of heavy land along the west coast. But it goes against the grain of Irish farmers to have to slaughter calves. However there has to be a market for the product.

Crossbred calves would be extremely healthy and if you were gauranteed a price aboyt 4.5/kg in may/june they could finished under 16-18 months as a bull beef type product. The biggest issue is that as beef finishers we need access to a price like that to achieve a profit like that.

At present Fr stores around 2yo 400kgs are being bought for 600 or less again this is not sustainable it will another 12 months for the cuts to above 30 month cattle (which is where a lot of FR bullocks go) to feed through the system. This will lead to pressure on FR calves next year.

Where to then.

Farmer Pudsey

Reggie. wrote: »

Green is jersey sam

Did not know welcome back hope Del reincarnates fast as well.

Maybe I will go Hindu as well and reincarnate as grouchy farmer.

knockmulliner

Greengrass1 wrote: »

What about serviceing? Can your local man fix it?

Wash settings corrupted reset from hq remotely over mobile connection. All mechanical and electrical ok

Greengrass1

knockmulliner wrote: »

Wash settings corrupted reset from hq remotely over mobile connection. All mechanical and electrical ok

Yes but say an agitator fails. Do they have to come from Kerry to fix it?

knockmulliner

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Yes but say an agitator fails. Do they have to come from Kerry to fix it?

local service man who has worked on other tanks for me over the years and installed this one for dairymaster handles mechanical and electrical side, hopefully I won't need him.

freedominacup

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Have no one to back me up about crossbreds now.
I may go Holstein

It's alright for you, you're only missing back-up, I've no-one to fight with now. Everyone else takes it to heart, de just keeps tearing and dragging win lose or draw.

biddy2013

sheebadog wrote: »

Ye'er losing sight of the issue. In a dairy business the male calf is a byproduct plain and simple. Just the same as straw is a byproduct of grain production - it's just beer money.

yup this time of year calf sales pay for food on our table, so depending on what i get we have fish fingers or steak

TossL1916

biddy2013 wrote: »

yup this time of year calf sales pay for food on our table, so depending on what i get we have fish fingers or steak

Very good point, cash is king and all the rest, however " although surplus jersey cross are worth considerably less than calves from many other breeds, the loss in revenue is far outweighed by other performance characteristics of the cross bred. Reduced calf and cull cow value are included in all economic analyses using actual data obtained from studies."
Thats a direct quote from the teagasc dairy manual. Having a good relationship with the bank manager will sort any cashflow difficulties at this time of year. also if you were milking crossbreds it should mean in theory that you wouldnt be dependent on bull calf sales because you have the extra revenue from the previous year, although it does require more budgeting and financial skills it is proven to be more profitable.

biddy2013

TossL1916 wrote: »

Very good point, cash is king and all the rest, however " although surplus jersey cross are worth considerably less than calves from many other breeds, the loss in revenue is far outweighed by other performance characteristics of the cross bred. Reduced calf and cull cow value are included in all economic analyses using actual data obtained from studies."
Thats a direct quote from the teagasc dairy manual. Having a good relationship with the bank manager will sort any cashflow difficulties at this time of year. also if you were milking crossbreds it should mean in theory that you wouldnt be dependent on bull calf sales because you have the extra revenue from the previous year, although it does require more budgeting and financial skills it is proven to be more profitable.

i was saying it to the lad besdie me about the jex cross calves, i was saying sure you could buy 20 of them for the price of the best fr bull calf that went through, if you loose 1 or 2 of them, its a small loss, loose the 1 fr and its:mad::mad: i think he was confused

Midlandsman80

Dairy master setting up agency/depot in flynns of mullingar, big opening day im a few weeks....big opening show planned, just renting space off flynns

Reggie.

Midlandsman80 wrote: »

Dairy master setting up agency/depot in flynns of mullingar, big opening day im a few weeks....big opening show planned, just renting space off flynns

seen that might just have to call over

Farmer Pudsey

biddy2013 wrote: »

yup this time of year calf sales pay for food on our table, so depending on what i get we have fish fingers or steak

Well is it steak, stew, fishfingers or chicken nuggets ( the ones from mechanically recovered meat process) at the moment

biddy2013 wrote: »

i was saying it to the lad besdie me about the jex cross calves, i was saying sure you could buy 20 of them for the price of the best fr bull calf that went through, if you loose 1 or 2 of them, its a small loss, loose the 1 fr and its:mad::mad: i think he was confused

Some farmers just cannot see the wood from the trees. I am reluctant in having huge money tied up in cattle. The loss factor is another thing cross bred calves are healthier as well. A weak sop of a BB or CH bull calf will die a lot faster than a 10 euro JE or a 40 euro Fresian.

biddy2013

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Well is it steak, stew, fishfingers or chicken nuggets ( the ones from mechanically recovered meat process) at the moment



Some farmers just cannot see the wood from the trees. I am reluctant in having huge money tied up in cattle. The loss factor is another thing cross bred calves are healthier as well. A weak sop of a BB or CH bull calf will die a lot faster than a 10 euro JE or a 40 euro Fresian.

wont be steak anyway:cool: can not understand lads paying 360 for simx cross calves, what age will they be finished at and at what cost. The fr bull calves i saw at 20-25 euro where young, they would be a great buy

willfarmerman

Buy a Belarus and you have a tractor for life... No one would hardly bid you for it. That is my view of those jersey crosses and them real Holstein calves..

freedominacup

willfarmerman wrote: »

Buy a Belarus and you have a tractor for life... No one would hardly bid you for it. That is my view of those jersey crosses and them real Holstein calves..

You are stuck with them until they are finished but the last lot I did grossed €1250 at 20 months on around 1.1 tonne of meal over their life. One winter indoors and a finishing period when no other stock needed the housing space. They were around 2 months late finishing which I put down to the "summer" of 2012 and last spring reducing their performance at grass. You buy a good quality CHX or similar and pay €300 more for him as a calf, squeeze him and keep him for 300 days longer (30 months finish) which will surely cost you a min of €1/day and he needs to gross €1850 to break even or around €4.40/kg on the 420kg carcass that they are now speaking of as a maximum. At even 5% losses on calves you would need another 5 cent a kilo on the 95% to cover that extra cost. 5% on €40 ho's would be a little over half a cent/kilo. I suppose the chx's look well if that's what floats your boat but I fail to see the financial attraction of them. TBH even with the sexed semen I think I'll continue finishing the few ho bulls that will turn up each year you never know when a few K in liquid stock might come in handy.

willfarmerman

100 euro for a strong square friesian calf vs 10 to 40 for a screw.. The 60 to 90 euro will be there for you at the end. Along with better feed efficiency and final kill out. I didn't say I thought the deer continental calves are a runner either. They are not.

freedominacup

willfarmerman wrote: »

100 euro for a strong square friesian calf vs 10 to 40 for a screw.. The 60 to 90 euro will be there for you at the end. Along with better feed efficiency and final kill out. I didn't say I thought the deer continental calves are a runner either. They are not.

What are you basing this on?

Greengrass1

willfarmerman wrote: »

100 euro for a strong square friesian calf vs 10 to 40 for a screw.. The 60 to 90 euro will be there for you at the end. Along with better feed efficiency and final kill out. I didn't say I thought the deer continental calves are a runner either. They are not.

Why use the word screw. Horrible word to use to describe anything.

blackdog1

freedominacup wrote: »

You are stuck with them until they are finished but the last lot I did grossed €1250 at 20 months on around 1.1 tonne of meal over their life. One winter indoors and a finishing period when no other stock needed the housing space. They were around 2 months late finishing which I put down to the "summer" of 2012 and last spring reducing their performance at grass. You buy a good quality CHX or similar and pay €300 more for him as a calf, squeeze him and keep him for 300 days longer (30 months finish) which will surely cost you a min of €1/day and he needs to gross €1850 to break even or around €4.40/kg on the 420kg carcass that they are now speaking of as a maximum. At even 5% losses on calves you would need another 5 cent a kilo on the 95% to cover that extra cost. 5% on €40 ho's would be a little over half a cent/kilo. I suppose the chx's look well if that's what floats your boat but I fail to see the financial attraction of them. TBH even with the sexed semen I think I'll continue finishing the few ho bulls that will turn up each year you never know when a few K in liquid stock might come in handy.

Sold 8 holstein bullocks to the factory last week. Averaged 790 a piece at 14 months of age oldest made 911 and graded o .

larrymiller

blackdog1 wrote: »

Sold 8 holstein bullocks to the factory last week. Averaged 790 a piece at 14 months of age oldest made 911 and graded o .

14 month old ho bullock? How are you managing that?

willfarmerman

On experience. Bad Holstein bulls lads ya couldn't plaster flesh on to them. Bit of British friesian in them and you have a fighting chance of getting them away in spec. Take 20 cent a kg on the grading.. 2 to3 per cent on kill out.. 0.1 or 0.2 live weight per day.. Wouldn't be long making it up. If you think you know better than me and the majority of beef men knock yourself out and fill the place with them hoors.

freedominacup

willfarmerman wrote: »

On experience. Bad Holstein bulls lads ya couldn't plaster flesh on to them. Bit of British friesian in them and you have a fighting chance of getting them away in spec. Take 20 cent a kg on the grading.. 2 to3 per cent on kill out.. 0.1 or 0.2 live weight per day.. Wouldn't be long making it up. If you think you know better than me and the majority of beef men knock yourself out and fill the place with them hoors.

I've never finished anything other than pure bred ho. I wouldn't have a British freisan in the place stumpy milkless little balls of s***e. My ho killed out a little over 50 percent. They were weighed two weeks before they were killed and weighed 660 on average and killed out 343. You reckon you would have gotten another 22kg on the carcass and 3.85/kg for your bf's last Nov. Mine were all O's. Plus how much sooner than 20 months? Mine averaged just over 1kg per day from birth to slaughter.

If your figures are right I could expect to finish bf bulls at 500 days (16 months more or less) at 680kg live weight and all killing R on less than one tonne of meal, have I those figures correct? A daily lwg of 1.26kg from birth to slaughter. I'm impressed if you are doing that regularly.

willfarmerman

Most bulls don't milk well. I killed bulls under 16 months last august at 4.00 r- to o= 3.80. 320 carcass weights. Thereabouts. Would have to go looking for paper work. They were bought in spring 412kgs 490 euro. Killed around 1200 mark I think Now I am impressed with your figures but they weren't extreme Holsteins. I have been there done that.

Farmer Pudsey

willfarmerman wrote: »

On experience. Bad Holstein bulls lads ya couldn't plaster flesh on to them. Bit of British friesian in them and you have a fighting chance of getting them away in spec. Take 20 cent a kg on the grading.. 2 to3 per cent on kill out.. 0.1 or 0.2 live weight per day.. Wouldn't be long making it up. If you think you know better than me and the majority of beef men knock yourself out and fill the place with them hoors.

There are ver few BF type cattle around. The reality is that as a trader you have to deal with what is within hand. Lot of middle of the road friesians around however look at ICBF over the last 12 monthsmost callt from dairy background are 50 or over holstein even AA and HE sired cattle usuall are 30%HO in general. Ho cattle also kill at heavier weights than BF when held as bullocks. HO cattle in general may well out preform BF on weight gain/day. I go for a rule of tumb that O=3= cattle kill at 50% going up or down a grade (from=to +or-) is 1% on the scale and going from FS 3= to 2+ or 4= is a1% as well. Then cattle will vary an AA will kill 1% better than a FR at the same grade and FS. It is not an exact science but I finf it accurate

biddy2013

willfarmerman wrote: »

Most bulls don't milk well.

willfarmerman

The bloodlines are intertwined I'm not saying I have cattle with bf on their cards but I'm calling them bf based on their conformation.