Friesian cross bull calves

Greengrass1

mf240 wrote: »

Coccidiosis?

Don't think so. Its white/gray and part lumpy and part water

funny man

sold 37 of them yesterday evening €25 each 10 days to just over a month.

biddy2013

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Don't think so. Its white/gray and part lumpy and part water

get your vet, do the cows get rotavec corona or any other vaccines?

Sam Kade

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I killed one 2 weeks ago. Made 1050 killed.
That's not bad

What age and what % jersey was he?

Greengrass1

biddy2013 wrote: »

get your vet, do the cows get rotavec corona or any other vaccines?

Ha my vet will just say they will get there own immunity or there only jerseys any way.
I cured one in the heifers that had it but she is still weak.
Will get there dungs done on Monday.

What does rotavec corona cover?

Greengrass1

Sam Kade wrote: »

What age and what % jersey was he?

24months.
50/50

trixi2011

We get 5 - 40 dollars for them over here for veal at 4 days old after that you have to pay transport $5-7 and the cost of feeding good milk and labour $10-12 so a lot of them wont even break even. They have to be 25kg plus and less than 50. If you were to shoot them you will get a dollar a calf from the slink man and they end up killed in a more humane way. I don't like the killing of bull calves but as long as it is done in a humane way it is defiantly a more humane than putting them on the bobby truck with the same financial result. Also for the guys keeping xbreed calves for a month and then selling them for 25 euro they cant even be breaking even at that, would you not be better to take a fiver for them at 4 days old ?

funny man

you wont get many takers for any calves at 4 days, but I agree with you it costs €17 a week to feed whole milk to calves never mind labour and straw, shooting them at birth would be the most profitable option, but it's a bad image to portray for dairy farming.

biddy2013

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ha my vet will just say they will get there own immunity or there only jerseys any way.
I cured one in the heifers that had it but she is still weak.
Will get there dungs done on Monday.

What does rotavec corona cover?

http://www.msd-animal-health.co.za/products/rotavec_corona/020_product_details.aspx#

biddy2013

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ha my vet will just say they will get there own immunity or there only jerseys any way.
I cured one in the heifers that had it but she is still weak.
Will get there dungs done on Monday.

What does rotavec corona cover?

get bimastat. Touch wood have had no scour yet in my calves . rotavec corona halocur and powerwashing and disenfecting working well

Greengrass1

biddy2013 wrote: »

http://www.msd-animal-health.co.za/products/rotavec_corona/020_product_details.aspx#

Might be worth while. Calves with scours wreck your head and time spent caring for them too

Farmer Pudsey

TossL1916 wrote: »

Yep, only timewasters ringing so far, any point taking them to marts?

When I see adds about timewaster I usually equate it to a lad that wants the top mart price and a bit with it for his animals. The issue with Jerseys X's is that it is that they are really suitable only for bull beef. U16 month beef is risky but if I was into buying calves it may be viable with these Jerseys X's however beef farmers need a projected market.

bbam wrote: »

Put the add up "free to take away" then...
Why on earth lads insist on putting up adds and no price, its not like you don't know their value. Not much wonder you only get messers ringing and turning up.

Not having a go at OP but I wouldn't bother ringing an ad with no price, I've done it a few times and you just get lads saying "come to the yard and see the stock, you won't be disappointed"..
Well I for one have better things to do with my time than running round the country looking at stock for the crack and then being asked forty prices because your in the yard and seen as half way there !!

You are spot on I have had this argument with lads over the phone as i explained to one lad I would not cross the road to look at an animal until I knew the price. The other thing is dairy farmers have to be realistic expecting a top price for what is a by product is not realistic. I foresaw this issue at the start of the year.

funny man wrote: »

you wont get many takers for any calves at 4 days, but I agree with you it costs €17 a week to feed whole milk to calves never mind labour and straw, shooting them at birth would be the most profitable option, but it's a bad image to portray for dairy farming.

This can be squarely laid at the door of the meat factory's and supermarkets and the sooner it is public knowledge the sooner we may get a realisation that bull beef has to be allowed to be marketed and artificial issues not put in its way.

Deepsouthwest

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

When I see adds about timewaster I usually equate it to a lad that wants the top mart price and a bit with it for his animals. The issue with Jerseys X's is that it is that they are really suitable only for bull beef. U16 month beef is risky but if I was into buying calves it may be viable with these Jerseys X's however beef farmers need a projected market.



You are spot on I have had this argument with lads over the phone as i explained to one lad I would not cross the road to look at an animal until I knew the price. The other thing is dairy farmers have to be realistic expecting a top price for what is a by product is not realistic. I foresaw this issue at the start of the year.



This can be squarely laid at the door of the meat factory's and supermarkets and the sooner it is public knowledge the sooner we may get a realisation that bull beef has to be allowed to be marketed and artificial issues not put in its way.

Not knocking export because I know we'd be screwed without it but, I have a friend who's head chef in one of the top top restaurants in the south east. We were chatting bout farming recently, and I told him most of my male calves go for export to either holland or Spain. He was astonished to hear Holland, his restaurant pays a v hefty price to import rose veal from there. Couldn't understand why we had to send them out so cheap only to bring them back at top dollar.

sheebadog

I sell all male calves for veal at 10 days old.

August to March ~ €80 average for Holsteins
April to Sept. ~ €150 Holsteins, €300 BB x hol

Farmer Pudsey

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Not knocking export because I know we'd be screwed without it but, I have a friend who's head chef in one of the top top restaurants in the south east. We were chatting bout farming recently, and I told him most of my male calves go for export to either holland or Spain. He was astonished to hear Holland, his restaurant pays a v hefty price to import rose veal from there. Couldn't understand why we had to send them out so cheap only to bring them back at top dollar.

You need more than one restaurants or even 100 restaurants to develop a veal market. We had one plant try it and it was not a success. The national branding of meat products is an issue that haunts us an about the only country with a huge export capacity.

sheebadog wrote: »

I sell all male calves for veal at 10 days old.

August to March ~ €80 average for Holsteins
April to Sept. ~ €150 Holsteins, €300 BB x hol

Transport is the killer in Ireland I think it costs in excess of 50 euro/calf to export to Holland.

The new pricing structure of beef and the stopping of the two year old bull market will have a big bearing on the price of dairy bred calves. It will also effect the way dealers operate in Ireland as well the moving of calves from one hear no to another for a few day eats up movements.

The exit of dairy farmers from the finishing of beef also means more calves. If the dairy cow herd expands by 50% this is more calves. While it expands there will be a huge volume of dairy bred bulls. As we see the market is limited. We will see further price pressure over the next few years.

willfarmerman

If a bb calf out of a friesan cow is worth 300. And a jersey is worthless. And any male offspring from jersey heifers are worthless. Do these jersey crosses really recoup that 300 euro in milk sales?

Farmer Pudsey

willfarmerman wrote: »

If a bb calf out of a friesan cow is worth 300. And a jersey is worthless. And any male offspring from jersey heifers are worthless. Do these jersey crosses really recoup that 300 euro in milk sales?

I not sure if there is any herd of BB being used as a dairy herd in Ireland or the world

willfarmerman

A Belgian blue cross calf out of a friesan cow

willfarmerman

I am just looking for a short explanation of this breeding policy. What are these jersey cross cows worth as culls?

Farmer Pudsey

willfarmerman wrote: »

A Belgian blue cross calf out of a friesan cow

willfarmerman wrote: »

I am just looking for a short explanation of this breeding policy. What are these jersey cross cows worth as culls?

Not standing up for jerseys a BB calf off a JEX cow would still be worth 200ish euro so the gap may not be 300 euro. The other factor is that few farmers use BB bulls on cows most use AA LM and HE bulls to mop up at the end of the breeding season.

At present calculation's the extra beef value of HO over JEX is about 1.5c/kg IMO. However if HO bull calves become worthless as well, which is down the road this gap will close to less than 1c/L.

The issue that is effecting bull calf value is the stopping of the production of bull beef. The only profitable way of rearing them was to finish as bulls born in the spring was as 22-24 month olds. IF a HO calf is worth 50 euro out of the yard at 3 weeks giving 25 Euro to rear to that age on a 6K litre cow it is 0.4c/L. In reality at this price you may only be breaking even.

IMO where the jersey goes the poor quality HO will follow in 1-2 years time.

Reggie.

funny man wrote: »

did you get a dung sample tested?

Does it cost much to get one done? And how much dung do you need? Just wondering as I never got it done and just curious.

Timmaay

One c section and a wobbled cull of a cow as a result and your at nothing with bbs tho. And its the utterly last thing you need in the middle of feb! I've used afew bbs myself I'll admit, but all on late calving cows (outside of the calving season), and they are last chance large HOs anyways, still a gamble but less risky than just wholly using BBs.

willfarmerman

Well a take a limousin cross calf then at 250.

sheebadog

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Not standing up for jerseys a BB calf off a JEX cow would still be worth 200ish euro so the gap may not be 300 euro. The other factor is that few farmers use BB bulls on cows most use AA LM and HE bulls to mop up at the end of the breeding season.

At present calculation's the extra beef value of HO over JEX is about 1.5c/kg IMO. However if HO bull calves become worthless as well, which is down the road this gap will close to less than 1c/L.

The issue that is effecting bull calf value is the stopping of the production of bull beef. The only profitable way of rearing them was to finish as bulls born in the spring was as 22-24 month olds. IF a HO calf is worth 50 euro out of the yard at 3 weeks giving 25 Euro to rear to that age on a 6K litre cow it is 0.4c/L. In reality at this price you may only be breaking even.

IMO where the jersey goes the poor quality HO will follow in 1-2 years time.

Ye'er losing sight of the issue. In a dairy business the male calf is a byproduct plain and simple. Just the same as straw is a byproduct of grain production - it's just beer money.

Timmaay

willfarmerman wrote: »

Well a take a limousin cross calf then at 250.

Slightly off topic, are they still making this? My dad went to the mart with two nice ones the other day and only got 165 or something for them, I thought it was piss poor.

willfarmerman

Hearing reports on radio but seeing is believing as they say.

Farmer Pudsey

sheebadog wrote: »

Ye'er losing sight of the issue. In a dairy business the male calf is a byproduct plain and simple. Just the same as straw is a byproduct of grain production - it's just beer money.

Timmaay wrote: »

Slightly off topic, are they still making this? My dad went to the mart with two nice ones the other day and only got 165 or something for them, I thought it was piss poor.

You should look at it as beer money Timmaay.

Sheeba I am always arguing this point. At present I consider Irish Beef farmers pay too high a price for this by product. This i think will change over the next few years. If dairying expands and cow numbers by 50% then dairy will take land away from beef and tillage.

This could lead to a situtation where there will be a reduction in beef farmers and these will have a large number of calves to choose from. We may not go down the NZ bobby calf route but I can see the situtation where poorer quality dairy bulls will be removed at birth from the market. Better quality dairy bulls will make 40-80 euro and beef bred crossed AA LM and HE will vary from 120-200 euro.

The reasons for this is the absence of a viable bull production market, the nationisation of beef markets and the excess of product. This may well increase the profitability of beef farms.

sheebadog

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You should look at it as beer money Timmaay.

Sheeba I am always arguing this point. At present I consider Irish Beef farmers pay too high a price for this by product. This i think will change over the next few years. If dairying expands and cow numbers by 50% then dairy will take land away from beef and tillage.

This could lead to a situtation where there will be a reduction in beef farmers and these will have a large number of calves to choose from. We may not go down the NZ bobby calf route but I can see the situtation where poorer quality dairy bulls will be removed at birth from the market. Better quality dairy bulls will make 40-80 euro and beef bred crossed AA LM and HE will vary from 120-200 euro.

The reasons for this is the absence of a viable bull production market, the nationisation of beef markets and the excess of product. This may well increase the profitability of beef farms.

It will increase the profitability of calf exporters. That's all.

TossL1916

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Not standing up for jerseys a BB calf off a JEX cow would still be worth 200ish euro so the gap may not be 300 euro. The other factor is that few farmers use BB bulls on cows most use AA LM and HE bulls to mop up at the end of the breeding season.

Can you get short gestation, easy calving BB,s with reliable semen?

funny man

Reggie. wrote: »

Does it cost much to get one done? And how much dung do you need? Just wondering as I never got it done and just curious.

not sure of the cost but I got three done the week before last and I never asked the price, I used the little clear bottles I got from the milk tanker driver. a good pair of gloves and a thermometer and you wont be long filling it.