Friesian cross bull calves

TossL1916

Does anybody know of dealers or farmers who are willing to take jersey x bull calves?
Those of you who have jersey x bull calves what are you doing with them?

simx

TossL1916 wrote: »

Does anybody know of dealers or farmers who are willing to take jersey x bull calves?
Those of you who have jersey x bull calves what are you doing with them?

Did you try an ad on dd?

Greengrass1

simx wrote: »

Did you try an ad on dd?

Waste of time. Two lads came and looked at some I had and in after getting scours in all them now.
Good thing I had heifers seperate

TossL1916

simx wrote: »

Did you try an ad on dd?

Yep, only timewasters ringing so far, any point taking them to marts?

bbam

I'd expect in the mart you'd be looking at getting €10-20 if there was demand.

If I were in your position I'd be offering them at €5-10 ex the yard and hopefully you'll get a taker.

That way their gone and you haven't waisted your time at the mart.

What price were they in the dd ad??

mahoney_j

Don't bother with those feckin jerseys lads use a decent br freisan or Holstein bull.superior heifer and more value able bull calf.im running for cover before the usual brigade cone in to correct me!!!!!

mf240

Hastings in roscrea will take them,

TossL1916

mahoney_j wrote: »

Don't bother with those feckin jerseys lads use a decent br freisan or Holstein bull.superior heifer and more value able bull calf.im running for cover before the usual brigade cone in to correct me!!!!!

well we are where we are now so a bit late for that :P

mf240 wrote: »

Hastings in roscrea will take them,

could you pm me their contact details please?

mf240

It's a tenner a head for the bvd calfs, I'm not sure if they charge less for a bigger number, guy in yard shoots them.

I will pm the number tonight it's in the house somewhere.

TossL1916

bbam wrote: »

I'd expect in the mart you'd be looking at getting €10-20 if there was demand.

If I were in your position I'd be offering them at €5-10 ex the yard and hopefully you'll get a taker.

That way their gone and you haven't waisted your time at the mart.

What price were they in the dd ad??

Yeah mart would be a last resort, never mentioned a price in the ad, all we want is to move them out of the yard, would give them away for free no problem if they were collected

mf240 wrote: »

It's a tenner a head for the bvd calfs, I'm not sure if they charge less for a bigger number, guy in yard shoots them.

I will pm the number tonight it's in the house somewhere.

They charge a tenner per head? Surely a knackery man could do that for cheaper and collect the calves aswel?
Please do thanks

TossL1916

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Waste of time. Two lads came and looked at some I had and in after getting scours in all them now.
Good thing I had heifers seperate

what is your plan for those calves?

sheebadog

mahoney_j wrote: »

Don't bother with those feckin jerseys lads use a decent br freisan or Holstein bull.superior heifer and more value able bull calf.im running for cover before the usual brigade cone in to correct me!!!!!

Now, now, down with that sort of thing !!

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Don't bother with those feckin jerseys lads use a decent br freisan or Holstein bull.superior heifer and more value able bull calf.im running for cover before the usual brigade cone in to correct me!!!!!

All a HO is any good for is getting a cross out of

Greengrass1

TossL1916 wrote: »

what is your plan for those calves?

Dunno yet. Was selling them to another lad but he couldn't take them at the time but he can now but I don't want him to take these and give his own calves a scour

exercise is the antidote

Is there anyone taking them and bringing to slaughter! Or is that a no go....

Sam Kade

I know a man that bought jersey cross bull calves a few years ago for a tenner each. He was delighted with himself and thought it was like winning the lotto until half of them died and the other half came to nothing.

Sam Kade

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

Is there anyone taking them and bringing to slaughter! Or is that a no go....

You wouldn't get 150 for them as they are like trying to fatten greyhounds.

Greengrass1

Sam Kade wrote: »

You wouldn't get 150 for them as they are like trying to fatten greyhounds.

I killed one 2 weeks ago. Made 1050 killed.
That's not bad

bbam

TossL1916 wrote: »

Yeah mart would be a last resort, never mentioned a price in the ad, all we want is to move them out of the yard, would give them away for free no problem if they were collected

Put the add up "free to take away" then...
Why on earth lads insist on putting up adds and no price, its not like you don't know their value. Not much wonder you only get messers ringing and turning up.

Not having a go at OP but I wouldn't bother ringing an ad with no price, I've done it a few times and you just get lads saying "come to the yard and see the stock, you won't be disappointed"..
Well I for one have better things to do with my time than running round the country looking at stock for the crack and then being asked forty prices because your in the yard and seen as half way there !!

biddy2013

did ye see the article in the irish independent about the jex calves?

trixi2011

biddy2013 wrote: »

did ye see the article in the irish independent about the jex calves?

any link?

biddy2013

yes
Farmers nationwide are being forced to offload bull calves from the Jersey breed of dairy cattle for rock-bottom prices as they cannot be fattened up like other breeds.
While female cows are bred for their milk, male cows, or bulls, are usually fattened up with feedstuff and sold for beef.
Manager at Bandon cattle mart in Co Cork, Tom McCarthy, said the mart had been selling between 20 and 30 Jersey bull calves per week for just €2, while the normal price for the preferred Friesian breed of bull calf can range from anywhere between €80 and €150.
Up to 500 Jersey bull calves were sold at the mart during last year's season for the breed, which runs between February and May.
Mr McCarthy, whose mart is part of the Cork Marts group, said there has been a "swing" towards breeding Jersey cattle over the last decade because the female's milk is "great quality".
However, the young bulls are considered useless.
Mr McCarthy said Jersey cattle had become increasingly popular in the past three or four years as farmers have been forced to produce better milk due to increased competition.
"She's also a lighter cow, which suits the conditions in some smaller farms.
"If you have heavy soil, some farmers are going down the route of breeding them because there is less compaction of soil, which means better grass will grow.
"Their milk solids are very good for butter fat and protein, but the downside is that their male progeny are not worth anything," he said.
"It's the same all over the world. If you check it out in New Zealand, which is the biggest producer of Jerseys, I don't think they get anything for their bull calves," he said.
A spokesperson from the Irish Farming Association said that out of a total of 2.2 million calves born in Ireland annually, it is estimated that 1.2pc are Jersey bull calves.
They said that Jersey bulls are usually slaughtered after they are sold at a relatively young age, normally under 16 months. It it thought that many end up as pet food.

TossL1916

bbam wrote: »

Put the add up "free to take away" then...
Why on earth lads insist on putting up adds and no price, its not like you don't know their value. Not much wonder you only get messers ringing and turning up.

Not having a go at OP but I wouldn't bother ringing an ad with no price, I've done it a few times and you just get lads saying "come to the yard and see the stock, you won't be disappointed"..
Well I for one have better things to do with my time than running round the country looking at stock for the crack and then being asked forty prices because your in the yard and seen as half way there !!

Tbh i couldnt agree with you more! However when i put the add up i thought they would be worth 10 euro a calf but i wasn't sure. It's now pretty clear where they stand in terms of value.

rancher

biddy2013 wrote: »

yes
Farmers nationwide are being forced to offload bull calves from the Jersey breed of dairy cattle for rock-bottom prices as they cannot be fattened up like other breeds.
While female cows are bred for their milk, male cows, or bulls, are usually fattened up with feedstuff and sold for beef.
Manager at Bandon cattle mart in Co Cork, Tom McCarthy, said the mart had been selling between 20 and 30 Jersey bull calves per week for just €2, while the normal price for the preferred Friesian breed of bull calf can range from anywhere between €80 and €150.
Up to 500 Jersey bull calves were sold at the mart during last year's season for the breed, which runs between February and May.
Mr McCarthy, whose mart is part of the Cork Marts group, said there has been a "swing" towards breeding Jersey cattle over the last decade because the female's milk is "great quality".
However, the young bulls are considered useless.
Mr McCarthy said Jersey cattle had become increasingly popular in the past three or four years as farmers have been forced to produce better milk due to increased competition.
"She's also a lighter cow, which suits the conditions in some smaller farms.
"If you have heavy soil, some farmers are going down the route of breeding them because there is less compaction of soil, which means better grass will grow.
"Their milk solids are very good for butter fat and protein, but the downside is that their male progeny are not worth anything," he said.
"It's the same all over the world. If you check it out in New Zealand, which is the biggest producer of Jerseys, I don't think they get anything for their bull calves," he said.
A spokesperson from the Irish Farming Association said that out of a total of 2.2 million calves born in Ireland annually, it is estimated that 1.2pc are Jersey bull calves.
They said that Jersey bulls are usually slaughtered after they are sold at a relatively young age, normally under 16 months. It it thought that many end up as pet food.

I would have thought that was common knowledge, you never see many in marts or factories.
Hasn't one of the beef processors an interest in pet food

biddy2013

rancher wrote: »

I would have thought that was common knowledge, you never see many in marts or factories.
Hasn't one of the beef processors an interest in pet food

the article is on fb also, people saying poor calves etc. How cute the calf looks...

delaval

I hear this every year and never gave away or shot one yet!!

exercise is the antidote

Fr calves going for 50-70today in the mart, big drop from last year...
Jerseys goin for a 5-10 euro.

willfarmerman

They are bringing 20 euro in car new mart as long as they are healthy and a fortnight old. Better than paying knackery.

Greengrass1

delaval wrote: »

I hear this every year and never gave away or shot one yet!!

I would have gotten rid of all mine last night only I didn't want to pass on a scour.
Your man would be a family friend too so don't want to dog him.
Its a wierd scour.
Calves are still thriving and mad for milk so haven't a clue why they are like this

mf240

Coccidiosis?

funny man

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I would have gotten rid of all mine last night only I didn't want to pass on a scour.
Your man would be a family friend too so don't want to dog him.
Its a wierd scour.
Calves are still thriving and mad for milk so haven't a clue why they are like this

did you get a dung sample tested?

Greengrass1

mf240 wrote: »

Coccidiosis?

Don't think so. Its white/gray and part lumpy and part water

funny man

sold 37 of them yesterday evening €25 each 10 days to just over a month.

biddy2013

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Don't think so. Its white/gray and part lumpy and part water

get your vet, do the cows get rotavec corona or any other vaccines?

Sam Kade

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I killed one 2 weeks ago. Made 1050 killed.
That's not bad

What age and what % jersey was he?

Greengrass1

biddy2013 wrote: »

get your vet, do the cows get rotavec corona or any other vaccines?

Ha my vet will just say they will get there own immunity or there only jerseys any way.
I cured one in the heifers that had it but she is still weak.
Will get there dungs done on Monday.

What does rotavec corona cover?

Greengrass1

Sam Kade wrote: »

What age and what % jersey was he?

24months.
50/50

trixi2011

We get 5 - 40 dollars for them over here for veal at 4 days old after that you have to pay transport $5-7 and the cost of feeding good milk and labour $10-12 so a lot of them wont even break even. They have to be 25kg plus and less than 50. If you were to shoot them you will get a dollar a calf from the slink man and they end up killed in a more humane way. I don't like the killing of bull calves but as long as it is done in a humane way it is defiantly a more humane than putting them on the bobby truck with the same financial result. Also for the guys keeping xbreed calves for a month and then selling them for 25 euro they cant even be breaking even at that, would you not be better to take a fiver for them at 4 days old ?

funny man

you wont get many takers for any calves at 4 days, but I agree with you it costs €17 a week to feed whole milk to calves never mind labour and straw, shooting them at birth would be the most profitable option, but it's a bad image to portray for dairy farming.

biddy2013

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ha my vet will just say they will get there own immunity or there only jerseys any way.
I cured one in the heifers that had it but she is still weak.
Will get there dungs done on Monday.

What does rotavec corona cover?

http://www.msd-animal-health.co.za/products/rotavec_corona/020_product_details.aspx#

biddy2013

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ha my vet will just say they will get there own immunity or there only jerseys any way.
I cured one in the heifers that had it but she is still weak.
Will get there dungs done on Monday.

What does rotavec corona cover?

get bimastat. Touch wood have had no scour yet in my calves . rotavec corona halocur and powerwashing and disenfecting working well

Greengrass1

biddy2013 wrote: »

http://www.msd-animal-health.co.za/products/rotavec_corona/020_product_details.aspx#

Might be worth while. Calves with scours wreck your head and time spent caring for them too

Farmer Pudsey

TossL1916 wrote: »

Yep, only timewasters ringing so far, any point taking them to marts?

When I see adds about timewaster I usually equate it to a lad that wants the top mart price and a bit with it for his animals. The issue with Jerseys X's is that it is that they are really suitable only for bull beef. U16 month beef is risky but if I was into buying calves it may be viable with these Jerseys X's however beef farmers need a projected market.

bbam wrote: »

Put the add up "free to take away" then...
Why on earth lads insist on putting up adds and no price, its not like you don't know their value. Not much wonder you only get messers ringing and turning up.

Not having a go at OP but I wouldn't bother ringing an ad with no price, I've done it a few times and you just get lads saying "come to the yard and see the stock, you won't be disappointed"..
Well I for one have better things to do with my time than running round the country looking at stock for the crack and then being asked forty prices because your in the yard and seen as half way there !!

You are spot on I have had this argument with lads over the phone as i explained to one lad I would not cross the road to look at an animal until I knew the price. The other thing is dairy farmers have to be realistic expecting a top price for what is a by product is not realistic. I foresaw this issue at the start of the year.

funny man wrote: »

you wont get many takers for any calves at 4 days, but I agree with you it costs €17 a week to feed whole milk to calves never mind labour and straw, shooting them at birth would be the most profitable option, but it's a bad image to portray for dairy farming.

This can be squarely laid at the door of the meat factory's and supermarkets and the sooner it is public knowledge the sooner we may get a realisation that bull beef has to be allowed to be marketed and artificial issues not put in its way.

Deepsouthwest

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

When I see adds about timewaster I usually equate it to a lad that wants the top mart price and a bit with it for his animals. The issue with Jerseys X's is that it is that they are really suitable only for bull beef. U16 month beef is risky but if I was into buying calves it may be viable with these Jerseys X's however beef farmers need a projected market.



You are spot on I have had this argument with lads over the phone as i explained to one lad I would not cross the road to look at an animal until I knew the price. The other thing is dairy farmers have to be realistic expecting a top price for what is a by product is not realistic. I foresaw this issue at the start of the year.



This can be squarely laid at the door of the meat factory's and supermarkets and the sooner it is public knowledge the sooner we may get a realisation that bull beef has to be allowed to be marketed and artificial issues not put in its way.

Not knocking export because I know we'd be screwed without it but, I have a friend who's head chef in one of the top top restaurants in the south east. We were chatting bout farming recently, and I told him most of my male calves go for export to either holland or Spain. He was astonished to hear Holland, his restaurant pays a v hefty price to import rose veal from there. Couldn't understand why we had to send them out so cheap only to bring them back at top dollar.

sheebadog

I sell all male calves for veal at 10 days old.

August to March ~ €80 average for Holsteins
April to Sept. ~ €150 Holsteins, €300 BB x hol

Farmer Pudsey

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Not knocking export because I know we'd be screwed without it but, I have a friend who's head chef in one of the top top restaurants in the south east. We were chatting bout farming recently, and I told him most of my male calves go for export to either holland or Spain. He was astonished to hear Holland, his restaurant pays a v hefty price to import rose veal from there. Couldn't understand why we had to send them out so cheap only to bring them back at top dollar.

You need more than one restaurants or even 100 restaurants to develop a veal market. We had one plant try it and it was not a success. The national branding of meat products is an issue that haunts us an about the only country with a huge export capacity.

sheebadog wrote: »

I sell all male calves for veal at 10 days old.

August to March ~ €80 average for Holsteins
April to Sept. ~ €150 Holsteins, €300 BB x hol

Transport is the killer in Ireland I think it costs in excess of 50 euro/calf to export to Holland.

The new pricing structure of beef and the stopping of the two year old bull market will have a big bearing on the price of dairy bred calves. It will also effect the way dealers operate in Ireland as well the moving of calves from one hear no to another for a few day eats up movements.

The exit of dairy farmers from the finishing of beef also means more calves. If the dairy cow herd expands by 50% this is more calves. While it expands there will be a huge volume of dairy bred bulls. As we see the market is limited. We will see further price pressure over the next few years.

willfarmerman

If a bb calf out of a friesan cow is worth 300. And a jersey is worthless. And any male offspring from jersey heifers are worthless. Do these jersey crosses really recoup that 300 euro in milk sales?

Farmer Pudsey

willfarmerman wrote: »

If a bb calf out of a friesan cow is worth 300. And a jersey is worthless. And any male offspring from jersey heifers are worthless. Do these jersey crosses really recoup that 300 euro in milk sales?

I not sure if there is any herd of BB being used as a dairy herd in Ireland or the world

willfarmerman

A Belgian blue cross calf out of a friesan cow

willfarmerman

I am just looking for a short explanation of this breeding policy. What are these jersey cross cows worth as culls?

Farmer Pudsey

willfarmerman wrote: »

A Belgian blue cross calf out of a friesan cow

willfarmerman wrote: »

I am just looking for a short explanation of this breeding policy. What are these jersey cross cows worth as culls?

Not standing up for jerseys a BB calf off a JEX cow would still be worth 200ish euro so the gap may not be 300 euro. The other factor is that few farmers use BB bulls on cows most use AA LM and HE bulls to mop up at the end of the breeding season.

At present calculation's the extra beef value of HO over JEX is about 1.5c/kg IMO. However if HO bull calves become worthless as well, which is down the road this gap will close to less than 1c/L.

The issue that is effecting bull calf value is the stopping of the production of bull beef. The only profitable way of rearing them was to finish as bulls born in the spring was as 22-24 month olds. IF a HO calf is worth 50 euro out of the yard at 3 weeks giving 25 Euro to rear to that age on a 6K litre cow it is 0.4c/L. In reality at this price you may only be breaking even.

IMO where the jersey goes the poor quality HO will follow in 1-2 years time.