Lough Ree Stock Assessment

Flysfisher

jkchambers wrote: »

Have a read. Also note that the report was also signed off by Dr Martin O`Grady.
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Dad/My%20Documents/Downloads/Pike%20Layman's%20Report%20(1).pdf
Above link dosent seem to work . You can get it 2/3 way down this page
http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Press-releases/new-study-reveals-pike-native-to-ireland.html

It doesn't matter who signs these reports. They have been wrong many times before and will be wrong again. It's not conclusive.

jkchambers

Zzippy wrote: »

You were the one who called them NATIVE when referring to Corrib/Mask, I would assume you either have evidence to back up that statement or were making a rather large assumption. It is this kind of stretch that annoys local people, whose local lore is that pike are not native, who have been removing pike for many years in order to manage the lake as a trout fishery, and who object to pike anglers (who have hundreds of excellent pike fisheries around the country) trying to turn their lake into another pike fishery.

I'm not saying they're right, but their local lore and customs carry as much weight as your lack of evidence for the native status of pike in Corrib, and like people everywhere, they resent outsiders coming in and lecturing them on why they're totally wrong. I personally don't agree with removing pike, but I detest the attitude displayed by many pike anglers - extremely vitriolic and abusive in some cases, and I can understand the attitude of locals to the above.

When it comes to it none of us can prove whether pike or trout were in the Western Lakes first. Lough Ree is a perfect mixed fishery. Good stocks of wild brown trout, pike and coarse fish. There are no pike or coarse fish removal programmes.
When the stock assessment was done on Corrib in 2006 after a long period of little or no gill netting we were told that pike stocks were huge and trout stocks low and that if large numbers of pike werent removed immediately trout could become extinct. Massive gillnetting and electrofishing programme started and continued along with major in stream enhancement works. The next stock assessment was done in 2012 and lo and behold pike stocks were well down but so were trout stocks. When I attended the netting operations in 2012 I was actually told that the trout stocks were very good in 2006 and this after a long period of little or no gill netting for pike. Are you confused ? I am.

jkchambers

Flysfisher wrote: »

It doesn't matter who signs these reports. They have been wrong many times before and will be wrong again. It's not conclusive.

OK then. I can take it that the old CFB reports that pike feed preferentially on trout are wrong too. If thats the case IFI should immediately stop gill netting and removing pike

allenup

I see you are writing on a 'stop gill netting lough ree facebuook page'- which states its a CULL jk.. I dont see you too quick to point out its a survey on L.Ree and not a cull..its amazing the over 1900 gombeens believe everything an anonymous person who sets up a FB page writes! they should just call it an anti fisheries page..after all you crowd are anti establishment!


Misinformation.com

allenup

an you say stop removing pike(in a forum about Lough Ree)... you KNOW they are not doing it to remove pike-dont you?!

jkchambers

allenup wrote: »

you summed it up perfectly.ALL clubs on lough ree are in favour of it.Apart from some unknown club in athlone called midland something or other(not very active anyhow by all accounts)! its sensationalist rubbish by gombeens who have not a clue what lough ree even looks like! its always the outsiders that cause the problems! bit like an taisce submitting objections to planning permission in the countryside.some pen pusher in an office in dublin !

I have enough said on this topic now..keeping this thread going is only encouraging the minority of people who dont understand why scientific research is needed!

I was at the meeting and the clubs were supportive of a stock assessment survey. This was to held identify which spawning rivers/streams were contributing most to the stock of trout in the lake. IFI have already checked the trout genetics in the various spawning streams. There were some concerns about the number of trout that would be killed. Lough Ree is a good example of a fine mixed fishery. There are more species present than trout. This is supposed to be a COMPLETE stock assessment survey. Look at the other species. It is the normal pike spawning time. Pike should be in around the margins. This will result in understatement of pike numbers in the assessment. It is also sure to annoy pike anglers who do not want to see spawn filled hen pike disturbed/killed at spawning time. Bream and tench more or less hibernate in the deeper water during winter and spring. They wont start moving for another month or two so one again the timing of the stock assessment is off the wall. When I was there last Thursday results from thirty 200 metre nets confirm this as not a single bream or tench was recorded. I acknowledge that gill netting is an effective method of capture. Why wouldnt it as they were originally designed to catch and kill all fish caught. They are killing machines. I am doing research on the matter but I have been told that they arent used for stock assessments in the UK these days.

jkchambers

allenup wrote: »

I see you are writing on a 'stop gill netting lough ree facebuook page'- which states its a CULL jk.. I dont see you too quick to point out its a survey on L.Ree and not a cull..its amazing the over 1900 gombeens believe everything an anonymous person who sets up a FB page writes! they should just call it an anti fisheries page..after all you crowd are anti establishment!


Misinformation.com

Actually I DID mention on one of my posts that it was a survey on Lough Ree and that most pike would be returned. I went on to add that that would not be the case on Corrib, Mask, Conn, Cullin etc. I cant remember whether I posted that on that facebook page or one of the 2 long threads on the inland fisheries ireland facebook page or probably both. I did also suggest on that facebook page that they retitle the page to stop gillnetting on our lakes.

jkchambers

allenup wrote: »

an you say stop removing pike(in a forum about Lough Ree)... you KNOW they are not doing it to remove pike-dont you?!

Pike killed in the survey gill nets are removed. These "survey gill nets" are the very same ones which will shortly be put down on Sheelin for a completely different reason.

allenup

that is fair enough.i cant argue with that. would you agree that there is misinformation about the survey on lough ree? especially on Facebook?

jkchambers

allenup wrote: »

that is fair enough.i cant argue with that. would you agree that there is misinformation about the survey on lough ree? especially on Facebook?

In every campaign you will have people posting misinformation, especially on facebook

Real angler

danbrosnan wrote: »

The whole situation has got outta hand but i do bash the IFI a lot but i agree with them here.. the survey fish of any kind there has to be some killing its just natural...

I wish they would survey every lake, stream and river in the country.. It gives us a great insight it the eco systems and how they are doing...

If i have any problem here is that they actually don't do enough of these surveys around the country..

It is so sad that people think it is ok to use Gill Nets during pike Spawning period, survey? Cull, surveys can be carried out without using gill nets and don't need to be done at this time of year. If the IFI started to dredge river beds during the trout spawning season it would frowned upon country wide, but coarse fish are vermin to the west of Ireland clowns that run the IFI.

danbrosnan

Real angler wrote: »

It is so sad that people think it is ok to use Gill Nets during pike Spawning period, survey? Cull, surveys can be carried out without using gill nets and don't need to be done at this time of year. If the IFI started to dredge river beds during the trout spawning season it would frowned upon country wide, but coarse fish are vermin to the west of Ireland clowns that run the IFI.

How could it be a cull they are catching brown trout and salmonids also...

jkchambers

danbrosnan wrote: »

How could it be a cull they are catching brown trout and salmonids also...

Big hen pike are full of spawn and will not take much abuse at this time of year. Trout will be fit now and better able to cope with the physical abuse and stress of gill nets

Real angler

danbrosnan wrote: »

How could it be a cull they are catching brown trout and salmonids also...

Apart from the fact that these Gill nets are killing some fish, the risk of disease caused by the damage is also very high, it is barbaric to use these nets and the IFI know this.

danbrosnan

When do trout spawn? And wat are the solutions instead of gill netting?

Zzippy

jkchambers wrote: »

Big hen pike are full of spawn and will not take much abuse at this time of year. Trout will be fit now and better able to cope with the physical abuse and stress of gill nets

So you would be in favour of the survey if it was conducted in May/June/Sept/Oct??

danbrosnan

Zzippy wrote: »

So you would be in favour of the survey if it was conducted in May/June/Sept/Oct??

Zippy your the man in the know, are these surveys passed down from Europe?

R.Dunne

IFI are totally at fault here!. Had they used a bit more caution and common sense they could have saved themselves this onslaught of criticism. After 30 years of gill netting and major pike culling, surely IFI are aware that nets of this fashion are a very touchy subject among the pike angling fraternity nationally and internationally?. Surely it's understandable that this survey was presumed to be yet another cull!? What measures did IFI take to reassure the public that it wasn't just another cull? A quick meeting with a few hours notice? That just isn't good enough and the resulting uproar is wholly warranted!.
I totally agree with fisheries surveys, but gill nets are drakonian and archaic, they have no place in the modern era. it is IFI's responsibility to make sure these surveys must not be undertaken during the spawning period of any desired species, whether it be pike, trout, tench, or salmon they are all equally important.

allenup

there are some amount of clowns in this world..and about 2000 of them like a page set up with misinformation about the survey on lough ree..I believe it is over anyhow and the state has ignored the lies and untruths being said..well done fisheries! we are looking forward to the results..when will they be out,does anyone know?

Real angler

allenup wrote: »

there are some amount of clowns in this world..and about 2000 of them like a page set up with misinformation about the survey on lough ree..I believe it is over anyhow and the state has ignored the lies and untruths being said..well done fisheries! we are looking forward to the results..when will they be out,does anyone know?

on various posts to have called fellow anglers and friends of mine gombeens and clowns, what gives you the right to call anyone names? who do you think you are? if you are a man then come face to face with myself or one of the anglers that you are slagging off, or just keep your opinions to yourself and let people make their own minds up on this situation with the IFI, OK?:mad:

Zzippy

Real angler wrote: »

on various posts to have called fellow anglers and friends of mine gombeens and clowns, what gives you the right to call anyone names? who do you think you are? if you are a man then come face to face with myself or one of the anglers that you are slagging off, or just keep your opinions to yourself and let people make their own minds up on this situation with the IFI, OK?:mad:

Real angler wrote: »

It is so sad that people think it is ok to use Gill Nets during pike Spawning period, survey? Cull, surveys can be carried out without using gill nets and don't need to be done at this time of year. If the IFI started to dredge river beds during the trout spawning season it would frowned upon country wide, but coarse fish are vermin to the west of Ireland clowns that run the IFI.

Hmmm. I think the first use of "clowns" was by yourself. What's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that, eh...

Real angler

Zzippy wrote: »

Hmmm. I think the first use of "clowns" was by yourself. What's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that, eh...

Fair point, I take it back, my argument is with the system and those who run it.
the anglers on facebook are passionate about their fish and their sport so why shouldn't they voice their opinions at the system also? but nobody has the right including myself to start calling everyday concerned anglers names just because of their views.

allenup

apology accepted..but it is now a cull..jk chambers will back that up.he said he witnessed it first hand?!

Real angler

allenup wrote: »

apology accepted..but it is now a cull..jk chambers will back that up.he said he witnessed it first hand?!

I have been speaking to people in the EU commission and their views on gill netting are much worse than the IFI claim, I have been speaking to the minister on this issue and we will be having a meeting about it soon. gill netting is one thing, but doing it when pike are in spawn is another, it is totaly barbaric to say the least.

Zzippy

Real angler wrote: »

I have been speaking to people in the EU commission and their views on gill netting are much worse than the IFI claim, I have been speaking to the minister on this issue and we will be having a meeting about it soon. gill netting is one thing, but doing it when pike are in spawn is another, it is totaly barbaric to say the least.

So if it wasn't done when pike are spawning you wouldn't be so bothered? Despite the fact that very few of the nets are close to shore, where the pike are currently?

allenup

who are you real angler? a fine gaeler no doubt-that explains your detachment from reality and the truth i suppose!

Real angler

allenup wrote: »

who are you real angler? a fine gaeler no doubt-that explains your detachment from reality and the truth i suppose!

Im not into politics, just because you believe the crap that you hear doesnt make us all the same, im interested in fish welfare as an angler, i dont listen to TDs telling me lies or civil servants for that matter, i believe what i see

Real angler

Zzippy wrote: »

So if it wasn't done when pike are spawning you wouldn't be so bothered? Despite the fact that very few of the nets are close to shore, where the pike are currently?

Gill nets should be banned, full stop

R.Dunne

allenup wrote: »

there are some amount of clowns in this world..and about 2000 of them like a page set up with misinformation about the survey on lough ree..I believe it is over anyhow and the state has ignored the lies and untruths being said..well done fisheries! we are looking forward to the results..when will they be out,does anyone know?

That's right, over 2000 on that page alone are opposed to the gill netting of lough ree. While there is 2 or so on here in favour. If that's a reflection of opposition well then that's good news!
Yes there is misinformation on that page, there is nothing I can do about that but it still got my vote, as will any page that opposes gill netting becouse I believe it is wrong allenup!.
I'm looking forward to the results myself which I'm sure if accurate wouldl show that trout stocks are as good or better than ever becouse pike have been left alone. Time will tell.
Personally I believe lough ree will be none the worse of this particular 'survey', although it may have got the ball rolling on what I believe to be the bigger picture here, which is to put an end to the pike culls on loughs mask, Corrib, cullin, conn and all wild lakes and loughs where netting is used to kill pike. If someone wants to dig a commercial fishery and keep that free of pike well that's up to them, although many commercials are now promoting pike as they are proveing more and more beneficial, but our wild waters will find their own balance if left alone and pike have always been part of that balance

allenup

well said mr dunne! i would say myself that there are as many people in favour as against the survey..most people with positive things to say dont frequent boards or post on facebook..we all know that..by the way,all clubs on lough ree are in favour of it..surely the local people who live on the shoreline and farm the land around it are entitled to more of a say than the PC D4 brigade!