Lough Ree Stock Assessment

jkchambers

Yesterday IFI announced details of a major stock assessment to be carried our on Lough Ree. I just posted a report on last nights meeting on the IFPAC (pike fed) message board. Below is what I posted
" John Crudden and myself attended the information meeting last night. There were around 35 anglers and 6 or 7 IFI staff present. Amanda Mooney of IFI gave a brief outline of what was going to happen and them handed over to Dr Martin O`Grady who went through things in detail. Weather conditions being reasonable they will start next Monday. 5 crews will lay 5 nets each morning. They will lift the nets the next morning and set more. 200 net locations have been selected by a computer on a random basis. It will take 2 to 3 weeks to get all 200 sites done depending on weather. Braided gill nets will be used. Orange markers will show the location of the nets. Nets will be down Monday to Friday only.
Dr O Grady said that they will be able to determine distribution, growth rates, diet and genetics for each species.It will be the first time that a comprehensive survey of Lough Ree will have been completed. Some EU funding is in place for the project. All pike over 70cms will be floy tagged. This is being done to try to establish the stock of adult pike in the lake. At the lough Ree angling festival in April competitors will be asked to record the number of pike they catch over 70cms with and without the tags. There is nothing sinister planned hear as all the clubs around lough Ree are pike friendly.
It is not known whether there are Asian Clams in Lough Ree. The teams will take dredge samples at each of the 200 locations to see whether they are present and, if they are, their distribution around the lake.
The genetics studies will be carried out at Queens University Belfast.
A big survey was carried out on Lough Corrib at this time 2 years ago. At that survey all coarse fish and most pike were killed. At the time Godfrey and myself went over to view nets being lifted. IFI laid on a boat and brought us and some other interested parties around. You may remember that I commented on the large number of big roach bream hybrids that were caught. After the meeting last night I chatted to Dr O`Grady for a while on a few issues. He mentioned that further examination of the Corrib hybrids showed that they were all of the same year class. All 12 years old.He decided to do some more research and looked at the weather for 2000. It appears that roach would normally spawn earlier than bream. However in 2000 it appears that it was very cold for a long time and then temperatures shot up. This got the roach spawning later than normal and at the very same time as bream. Research also showed that the male roach was, what shall I say, a lot busier than male bream so the hybrids that they found came from male roach and female bream. None of the hybrids were capable of spawning."

danbrosnan

Great litte read wish they could do studies like this on every lake in the country....

bizidea

dont get why they have to survey the lake with gill nets there will be a lot of fish killed in these nets will there not is there no other way for them to survey it

jkchambers

bizidea wrote: »

dont get why they have to survey the lake with gill nets there will be a lot of fish killed in these nets will there not is there no other way for them to survey it

They estimate 30% will not survive. They say it is the most efficient method and has always been used. To compare surveys done in different years you need to use same nets at same locations at same time of year. While the number of fish killed may seem high it would only represent a very tiny proportion of the stocks in the lake. I am not trying to justify gill nets I would much prefer a more efficient, fish friendly method.

danbrosnan

Fyke nets prob wouldn't be sufficient in the lake?

Tbh i would have no problem with the killing of a few fish if it meant that you could get a scientific analysis of the lake, then the proper precautions could be taken to keep stock up and healthy...

bizidea

doubt they got too many nets down today was rough enough looking out there.

jkchambers

http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Notices/lough-ree-survey.html

popsy09

i am following a debate on facebook about this seems like alot of people are in total dis-agreement with it saying its the pike prime spawning season and the % of fish that will survive will not be acceptable , i must say they make some valid points but i wonder will they be able to stop it

jkchambers

popsy09 wrote: »

i am following a debate on facebook about this seems like alot of people are in total dis-agreement with it saying its the pike prime spawning season and the % of fish that will survive will not be acceptable , i must say they make some valid points but i wonder will they be able to stop it

what facebook page ?
I posted this on the IFPAC message board
" I did mention that EU funding is in place for this survey. It is being done in Feb/March when pike would normally be in around the shores spawning so it is unlikely that a good assessment of pike numbers etc will be obtained. Bream and tench will hardly be moving at all as temperatures are far too low at this time of year. They should get good info on trout, roach and hybrids (maybe they may also find a carp or a chub). If they really wanted to get a good comprehensive survey done on all species would late Summer not be a much better time ? It makes you wonder whether this is meant to be a proper comprehensive fish stock survey or just a trout survey in disguise !!

popsy09

if you like "purple whiskers" a company up north he put up an article about it and got very good response

allenup

i was at the meeting,and agree fully with this survey..certain elements on here(who may have been at the meeting! ) are always out to undermine IFI. I happen to live near lough Ree , and am keeping an eye on this survey! Very few fish are killed. I cant wait to see the full results of it. It seems like a lot of coarse fish are showing up, which is very interesting..can anyone tell me how a comprehensive survey will be carried out another way?? ALL clubs on Lough Ree are in favour of it by the way..It seems the PALE brigade in Dublin are trolling on the net again! nothing new there.

hurler014

The IFI are a bit of a joke in all of this with so much of the negative publicity. The water frameworks study needs to be carried out but the timing, as they have been doing for the last 30 years demonstrates how the IFI have a total disregard for pike, catch the big ones in the gill nets just as they are about to spawn. All fish will be killed after tangling with these nets within a few hours. If they have any interest in not killing pike to protect trout stocks perhaps draft netting is an option to be explored: take what you need for research purposes then release the rest.

jkchambers

allenup wrote: »

i was at the meeting,and agree fully with this survey..certain elements on here(who may have been at the meeting! ) are always out to undermine IFI. I happen to live near lough Ree , and am keeping an eye on this survey! Very few fish are killed. I cant wait to see the full results of it. It seems like a lot of coarse fish are showing up, which is very interesting..can anyone tell me how a comprehensive survey will be carried out another way?? ALL clubs on Lough Ree are in favour of it by the way..It seems the PALE brigade in Dublin are trolling on the net again! nothing new there.

I was at the meeting and I am from Dublin. I am Chairman of IFPAC the pike fed who have a couple of affiliated clubs in the area. This is completely the wrong time of year to carry out a stock assessment survey. Pike are spawning and bream and tench wont be moving until the water temperatures rise a lot. If this was being carried out just before the trout spawning time I wonder whether you would approve so much ? I am not against stock assessment surveys as they can provide very useful information. It is the time of year that is the main problem and, of course, we would like an alternative method of capture to gill nets
Smaller surveys have been carried out on the lake in 2013 and 2010 under the waterframework directive.
2013 preliminary results
http://wfdfish.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Ree_prel_report_2013.pdf
2010
http://wfdfish.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Ree_report_2010.pdf
For those who dont know much about gill nets below is a link to a page on the old IFPAC website which was put up in 2004
http://www.angling-in-ireland.com/archive/pages/Gillnet%20Page1.htm

danbrosnan

Is the lough land locked? why no salmon or sea trout..??? i not familiar with the area being from kerry..

jkchambers

danbrosnan wrote: »

Is the lough land locked? why no salmon or sea trout..??? i not familiar with the area being from kerry..

No its not landlocked, its on the Shannon above Athlone. i honestly dont know about salmon or sea trout

hurler014

It seems so: http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail1952060400058.
I don't know the cause of their demise. Perhaps dams along the Shannon may be involved somehow? I'm not sure.

hurler014

Here's another news story in an English paper, we may wonder why less British angling tourists make the trip over here. If only we managed our fishing resources better for the good of the many disclipines.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/fishing-lines-legend-of-giant-pike-could-grow-and-grow-1130432.html
On another note, I wonder if the fishermen/netsmen on lough Ree many years ago used draft nets, there seems to be a sustainability to their livelihood if netting practices were passed over a few generations. Different times though with many other factors coming into play.

bencarvosso

you are right.... but that news clipping from the english indo is from 1999

hurler014

Ya I know lad, I was just usin it as an example how fecked up pike and coarse angling policies by the ifi are over here and shag all has changed really since then, I should have said that.

jkchambers

This thread has so far got around 160 posts on the inland fisheries ireland facebook page. You have to go down the page a bit to find it as lots of new news items have been posted.

bencarvosso

hurler014 wrote: »

Ya I know lad, I was just usin it as an example how fecked up pike and coarse angling policies by the ifi are over here and shag all has changed really since then, I should have said that.

i totally agree mate

allenup

very few fish get killed in these nets.for PEOPLE on here who do not know Lough Ree very well, it is a vast vast lake..I reckon that not even 0.001% of the lake is covered by this survey..given that about 2 fish die per net(usually trout by the way), this is a very small number! NO TIME is ideal for a netting survey.but as usual the usual moaners complain about absolutely everything the fisheries people do.And as most are aware all of these people are qualified in their field to masters or PhD level, and have spent years studying fisheries science, zoology and environmental science.I believe that the are the authority that should be respected..but i understand peoples concerns,especially when they are uneducated guesses at what is happening.

hurler014

allenup wrote: »

very few fish get killed in these nets.for PEOPLE on here who do not know Lough Ree very well, it is a vast vast lake..I reckon that not even 0.001% of the lake is covered by this survey..given that about 2 fish die per net(usually trout by the way), this is a very small number! NO TIME is ideal for a netting survey.but as usual the usual moaners complain about absolutely everything the fisheries people do.And as most are aware all of these people are qualified in their field to masters or PhD level, and have spent years studying fisheries science, zoology and environmental science.I believe that the are the authority that should be respected..but i understand peoples concerns,especially when they are uneducated guesses at what is happening.

Perhaps if you are going to be critical of people and deem them uneducated you had best use a facility on your computed to improve your grammar. As regards to comments stating that pike are not killed in any great numbers you might want to look up Water Framework reports on the numbers of pike and coarse fish killed repeatedly in ongoing studies. The Corrib report from 2 years ago states that trout numbers and trout sizes have decreased even though pike numbers have also been vastly reduced due to gill nets/culling. There is a bias in this country plain for people to see towards game angling and I do fish for salmon and trout myself. Pike are native Irish fish and have co existed with game species for centuries, many people would not like to see our pike sngling decimated by the IFI. You do realise the vast angling contribution that pike and coarse angling adds to the economy, perhaps you should also reason with the belief that many British anglers do not frequent our country as much anymore to avail of the 'great' pike and coarse angling opportunities? Oh yes I forgot, trout are nicer to eat and prettier!

allenup

true.my grammer is not the best.I have not formal education!!! I do agree with your points, but regarding the Water Framework, i believe this practice is taking place all over Europe.Stock assessments.The Lough Ree survey is not a culling exercise we have been assured.We were told at the meeting that the lab are of the local office near athlone is open for anyone to observe if they want. I think it is finishing friday though.

By the way, everyone knows that pike,no matter how hard anyone tries can be eradicated from any water.Trout on the other hand are slightly different,and less tolerant to interference.

hurler014

allenup wrote: »

true.my grammer is not the best.I have not formal education!!! I do agree with your points, but regarding the Water Framework, i believe this practice is taking place all over Europe.Stock assessments.The Lough Ree survey is not a culling exercise we have been assured.We were told at the meeting that the lab are of the local office near athlone is open for anyone to observe if they want. I think it is finishing friday though.

By the way, everyone knows that pike,no matter how hard anyone tries can be eradicated from any water.Trout on the other hand are slightly different,and less tolerant to interference.

The big thing is that its the wrong time of the year to be netting especially with pike as they will soon be spawning. Yes the water frameworks Directive is a necessity but as I have stated the timing and use of nets do pike little good.
On the subject of gill netting, nets have gone up in Loughs Cullin and Conn. All coarse fish will be killed and the majority of pike captured will also suffer the same fate. The Corrib and Mask will also be gill netted and all pike and coarse fish will be killed. Pike and trout have shared the same waterways for centuries and both have prospered.

jkchambers

There was a complete stock assessment on Corrib in Feb 2012. I went out on a boat observing 4 nets of 220 metres in length being lifted. We were close to the boats at all times. Only 1 pike and 1 trout were caught over the 4 nets and both were dead.Around 70 to 80 perch, roach and roach bream hybrids were caught. At least half were dead and the other half were soon dead as none were released as would be the practice on a "wild brown trout fishery". My one days experience of the lifting of around half a mile of nets set for 24 hours was that at least 50% of the fish were dead. I enclose a link to where I posted a report and snaps at the time
http://www.angling-in-ireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=358&start=30

hurler014

They probably won't get too many pike on the Corrib this time, going from reports from a couple of end of season trout club pike comps very little pike were caught, two pike by members of one club and one pike by a member of another club. Mask probably won't be much different.

allenup

i don't think pike will become extinct any time soon! as for perch and roach, the lake is full of them.Its not nice seeing any fish killed, but i do predict that this survey will put Ree on the coarse fishing map.it seems that a lot of large roche/bream hybrids are being caught in the nets!

demanufactured

allenup wrote: »

i don't think pike will become extinct any time soon! as for perch and roach, the lake is full of them.Its not nice seeing any fish killed, but i do predict that this survey will put Ree on the coarse fishing map.it seems that a lot of large roche/bream hybrids are being caught in the nets!

Ree has been on the coarse fishing map for a long time , but the Bream of yesteryear are long gone.

allenup

where do people fish for coarse fish on Lough Ree as they do on Lough Allen? I would love to know..apart from Ballybay.

hurler014

allenup wrote: »

where do people fish for coarse fish on Lough Ree as they do on Lough Allen? I would love to know..apart from Ballybay.

I'd say you would lol, a quick phonecall to the IFI to get out the nets.