The European club rugby debacle continues part IV: the quest for peace

icdg

molloyjh wrote: »

Multiple subscriptions. YAY!






Not.

The unfortunately price of there being multiple players in the premium sports market - English rugby fans have had it for the past three and a half seasons now, and football fans since 2001 when PremPlus started (strictly speaking that was Sky competing with itself) and more seriously since 2007 with Setanta/ESPN/BT.. Indeed although the EU Commission deal that saw the Premier League split the rights has now expired, the Premier League have continued to voluntarily split the rights because they're earning far more money from two players fighting over the rights than Sky coming back to them each time and naming its price which was the previous situation.

Grandpa Hassan

So if this comes to pass the PRL have got everything they wanted....governance, qualification, demise of ERC, etc....and have kept BT in the game. How have they pulled off what appears to be a blinder, when the whole thing has been so shambolic!?

ArmaniJeanss

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

So if this comes to pass the PRL have got everything they wanted....governance, qualification, demise of ERC, etc....and have kept BT in the game.

Meh, they've lost out on the logo so they haven't got it all their own way.

its_phil

After this entire process, I genuinely rank the Welsh regions with the Saracens of the rugby world. Loath and wish nothing good on them. The only problem with wishing nothing good on them, is that they'll bitch and moan about us "not taking it serious", yet we'll still have 3 provinces ahead of them and actually challenging in Europe

Neil3030

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

So if this comes to pass the PRL have got everything they wanted....governance, qualification, demise of ERC, etc....and have kept BT in the game. How have they pulled off what appears to be a blinder, when the whole thing has been so shambolic!?

Everything they want.... except winners of the tournament. And it will be most interesting to see what toys remain to fling from their pram after a further 3-5 years of continued hiberno gallic dominance of European rugby. :pac:

Neil3030

So as long as we get 3 provinces into the tournament each year, we will get 15% of the tournament revenues? Assuming that it was originally 16.66%, that's not a huge drop.

However the PRL get an increase from 16.66% to nearly double that, at 30%. Further, that's guaranteed, whereas there are bound to be off years where maybe only 2 provinces get into the Heino, and suddenly our cut is down by a third.

Am I right with all of this?

Swiwi.

molloyjh wrote: »

Multiple subscriptions. YAY!






Not.

If you have Sky you can watch the first half. BT the second. Both will get you the full match!

danthefan

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

So if this comes to pass the PRL have got everything they wanted....governance, qualification, demise of ERC, etc....and have kept BT in the game. How have they pulled off what appears to be a blinder, when the whole thing has been so shambolic!?

Governance? Not even close. They wanted to control the competition themselves, which is not happening under any circumstance.

bilston

its_phil wrote: »

After this entire process, I genuinely rank the Welsh regions with the Saracens of the rugby world. Loath and wish nothing good on them. The only problem with wishing nothing good on them, is that they'll bitch and moan about us "not taking it serious", yet we'll still have 3 provinces ahead of them and actually challenging in Europe

I agree...BUT...as I said yesterday they are going to come out of this as major losers.

They are stuck in the Pro 12 where they don't want to be, and with the likely new qualification criteria for Europe, they will most likely have just the two sides in tier one competition for the foreseeable future.

keps

molloyjh wrote: »

Multiple subscriptions

More excuses for visits to the pub-- yippee:pac::pac:

Grandpa Hassan

danthefan wrote: »

Governance? Not even close. They wanted to control the competition themselves, which is not happening under any circumstance.

Did they? I missed that part

sydthebeat

The emergence of a new rugby stronghold. ....... peer to peer

MugMugs

I know it may be a bit too early to ask but what in gods name does this mean for us?

Do we now have to find a vendor for BT sport to watch European Rugby ?

RogerThis

MugMugs wrote: »

Do we now have to find a vendor for BT sport to watch European Rugby ?

A subscription to Setanta gets you BT.

RogerThis

Aren't the Italians still pulling out of the Pro12?

Larbre34

MugMugs wrote: »

I know it may be a bit too early to ask but what in gods name does this mean for us?

Do we now have to find a vendor for BT sport to watch European Rugby ?

Setanta Sports already offer 2 BT Sports channels in Ireland.

As I said yesterday Im not prepared to pay two subscriptions even for Leinster, as most of the channel offerings wouldnt interest me.

As with the whole 'free to air' decisions, the ordinary punters lose out. If there is even a sniff that it will require two pay platforms to follow the games in Ireland, then get on to whichever province you follow and the IRFU and tell them you are disgusted that the compromise means the fans take the hit. If it wasnt for us turning up in numbers at games every week, the provinces would have no funds.....

Grandpa Hassan

keps wrote: »

More excuses for visits to the pub-- yippee:pac::pac:

More Craig Doyle on TV.....yippee


http://sport.bt.com/watchnow/ourteam/craig-doyle-S11374088325842

keps

RogerThis wrote: »

Aren't the Italians still pulling out of the Pro12?

A post here from yesterday


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/talks-held-over-future-italian-6706587


amended as previous link 'dead'.

Larbre34

RogerThis wrote: »

Aren't the Italians still pulling out of the Pro12?

History dictates they will probably pull out, align with the Super 10, play about half a campaign, then pull a 180, march over the mountains to rejoin the Pro12 11 10 12 , leaving all their vehicles behind them.....

Grandpa Hassan

Larbre34 wrote: »

Setanta Sports already offer 2 BT Sports channels in Ireland.

As I said yesterday Im not prepared to pay two subscriptions even for Leinster, as most of the channel offerings wouldnt interest me.

As with the whole 'free to air' decisions, the ordinary punters lose out. If there is even a sniff that it will require two pay platforms to follow the games in Ireland, then get on to whichever province you follow and the IRFU and tell them you are disgusted that the compromise means the fans take the hit. If it wasnt for us turning up in numbers at games every week, the provinces would have no funds.....

Except that the companies primarily serve the UK market. Not sure what leverage the IRFU would have over BT and Sky.

Sky would be more concerned about dealing as best they can with BT....the anger of the Irish viewer would come a distant second. And the boradcasting split in the UK will not be a big deal seeing as you can get BT sport for free if you have their broadband

Grandpa Hassan

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Except that the companies primarily serve the UK market. Not sure what leverage the IRFU would have over BT and Sky.

Sky would be more concerned about dealing as best they can with BT....the anger of the Irish viewer would come a distant second. And the boradcasting split in the UK will not be a big deal seeing as you can get BT sport for free if you have their broadband

for now. (year 1)

vienne86

Deleted User wrote: »

for now. (year 1)

Yep - Eircom broadband used to stream Setanta but they quit last autumn. Feck them anyway.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

for now. (year 1)

Supposedly it's not just the first year and will continue? Although I am certain they originally said that it was and I myself am a BT customer and was expecting to have to pay for BT sport after September.

irishbucsfan

danthefan wrote: »

Governance? Not even close. They wanted to control the competition themselves, which is not happening under any circumstance.

Are you saying they wanted to completely control the competition by themselves?

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm dismissing the idea that removing them from the Amlin is somehow "good" for them.

The fixed costs are transport, accommodation etc unless you're to have them play over the internet? And the fact that those games are against other teams at 'their level' as opposed to above it does not change those costs one bit.

Please detail a third tier tournament that you think would be of benefit.

Those are not fixed costs if the amount of transport and accommodation required is reduced.

There were lots of proposals that worked by doing exactly this. A shortened competition taking place over hosted rounds in August and September with a number of qualifiers moving into the Amlin is the general idea that seems they discussed the most, it requires initiative from those Unions and FIRA to get it off the ground though.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Those are not fixed costs if the amount of transport and accommodation required is reduced.

There were lots of proposals that worked by doing exactly this. A shortened competition taking place over hosted rounds in August and September with a number of qualifiers moving into the Amlin is the general idea that seems they discussed the most, it requires initiative from those Unions and FIRA to get it off the ground though.

So has what has it got to do with the Governing board of the ERC/RCC/whatever?

What are they supposed to do with it? Who pays? Why is it not in existence already? It's a smokescreen because it's a thoroughly intangible and inconsequential thing to say, and will no doubt be the very first thing removed from any agenda as soon as the business side of things are talked about.

channelsurfer2

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Supposedly it's not just the first year and will continue? Although I am certain they originally said that it was and I myself am a BT customer and was expecting to have to pay for BT sport after September.

In Ireland the Setanta/BT arrangement is a 3 year deal for this round of premiership soccer matches. Worringly an article in the Sunday Business Post a few weeks back with the Setanta CEO did not rule out BT going alone once that deal is up and telling Setanta to feck off...

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

So has what has it got to do with the Governing board of the ERC/RCC/whatever?

There has to be room provided for it. Ultimately the governing board should be one and the same.

What are they supposed to do with it? Who pays? Why is it not in existence already? It's a smokescreen because it's a thoroughly intangible and inconsequential thing to say, and will no doubt be the very first thing removed from any agenda as soon as the business side of things are talked about.

They pay, they play in it, they are provided an opportunity to progress into the Amlin, and that provision has been agreed. It's quite simple. It's not a smokescreen, it's genuine proposition and it is still being discussed. It may not become a reality for a while, especially without a single European governing body. It's very easy to dismiss such a compeititon as a smokescreen though I suppose without having a single clue as to its nature or anything to base it on, but in truth there is momentum in some FIRA nations picking up at least. These pan-European competitions are feasible and affordable if done correctly, and there are loads of examples of that (again, women's champions league qualification in soccer is an interesting parallel to what's been discussed for this). I say this as someone who grew up in a FIRA nation, played rugby in a FIRA nation, and have good friends who would be playing in this competition instead of the Amlin.

Intangible Idealism ibf.

The reason it can be almost instantly dismissed is that it has pretty much been. It was paraded as a "We're not just thinking of ourselves" when the RCC was first talked about, and has disappeared under a stone.

I'm 100% not against a third tier tournament. It's the suggestion that it's going to make a significant difference that I have an issue with, and that it has absolutely anything to do with ERC/RCC/ERC2.0 or this debate. That it is completely a smokescreen.

Find me a single quote, reference even hint at a mention by any of the original megaphone diplomats in the past 2 years about a new third tier tournament, how it will be funded etc and I'll be surprised.

I've no doubt that a third tier tournament will evolve, but like you've said above, it will evolve from the FIRA nations and their Unions themselves. Nothing to do with the debate that we are unfortunate spectators to though.

bilston

So if a third tier tournament occurred would we enter some AIL teams or the likes of the provincial A teams or just not be involved at all?