The European club rugby debacle continues part IV: the quest for peace

Grandpa Hassan

legendary.xix wrote: »

Where's the incentive to win the Amlin if there's no H Cup spot?

There is no incentive to win the Europa cup either....it does not feed the Champions league. But clubs still try to win it

irishbucsfan

legendary.xix wrote: »

Where's the incentive to win the Amlin if there's no H Cup spot?

Money, and the honour itself, I suppose. It would be better if there was a H Cup spot up for grabs though.

It's great to see that common sense has prevailed and we're finally looking at a resolution. Time now for the media to get together and do their bit by bringing the broadcasters into it as much and as often as possible.

keps

Winters wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pan-european-resolution-seems-that-bit-closer-after-meeting-1.1689299


.

You would have to wonder where the IT gets the phrase 'Pan European' from in this context.
The HC competition contains teams from 6 countries - three of which make up the UK!

Pan European = relating to all European countries

bilston

Winters wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pan-european-resolution-seems-that-bit-closer-after-meeting-1.1689299

The major stumbling block remains, namely conflicting TV deals between Sky and BT, but it appears three options involving separate or joint coverage between the two extra-terrestrial broadcasters are now being pursued.

:eek::eek::eek:

I knew it, those damn aliens want control of our rugby! We never stood a chance!

keps

bilston wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

I knew it, those damn aliens want control of our rugby! We never stood a chance!

hahaha missed that when I read it!

irishbucsfan

keps wrote: »

You would have to wonder where the IT gets the phrase 'Pan European' from in this context.
The HC competition contains teams from 6 countries - three of which make up the UK!

Pan European = relating to all European countries

If the 3 tiered structure proposed by the Anglo-French is agreed then it is far more than 6 countries involved, it's pretty much open to any FIRA nation, it's just the HEC and ECC themselves which aren't.

The 3 tiered structure is smoke and mirrors ibf, it always has been.

Who's going to pay for it? Where is the return?

You can't advocate free market without being aware that it's survival of the fittest, or in business terms, survival of the most profitable.

Larbre34

Oh yeah super, a deal by means of separate or joint coverage by the two TV corporations, the fans get effed again. Its expense enough keeping Sky Sports, I am NOT going to fork out for two subscriptions to follow my team in Europe given that 90% of the rest of the programming is s***e I dont want to see and there is also a clear and present danger of Craig Doyle.

legendary.xix

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

There is no incentive to win the Europa cup either....it does not feed the Champions league. But clubs still try to win it

Actually starting next season, Europa League winner will earn access to Champions League!

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

The 3 tiered structure is smoke and mirrors ibf, it always has been.

Who's going to pay for it? Where is the return?

You can't advocate free market without being aware that it's survival of the fittest, or in business terms, survival of the most profitable.

If it is smoke and mirrors, we'll see that shortly. It's certainly a real proposition though, and has been discussed as a reality. I'm not really sure what evidence you're using to dismiss it really.

There are two further evolutions to the European rugby on the horizon, and that is one of them.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If it is smoke and mirrors, we'll see that shortly. It's certainly a real proposition though, and has been discussed as a reality. I'm not really sure what evidence you're using to dismiss it really.

There are two further evolutions to the European rugby on the horizon, and that is one of them.

"Evidence".
Are we really here again?

Simple question. Who will cover the costs of the Spanish team playing in Russia?

Grandpa Hassan

legendary.xix wrote: »

Actually starting next season, Europa League winner will earn access to Champions League!

OK, fair enough. Didn't know that. But the lack of qualification in the past hasn't stopped clubs from wanting to win the thing. Clubs will still want to win the Amlin, especially once is progresses and they see the opportunity for silverware.

irishbucsfan

Larbre34 wrote: »

Oh yeah super, a deal by means of separate or joint coverage by the two TV corporations, the fans get effed again. Its expense enough keeping Sky Sports, I am NOT going to fork out for two subscriptions to follow my team in Europe given that 90% of the rest of the programming is s***e I dont want to see and there is also a clear and present danger of Craig Doyle.

I think we'll be looking at a single broadcaster. Or perhaps Sky will agree to take the Irish rights with BT taking UK rights. I think it will ultimately come down to the most valuable outcome for the participants, who are in a strong position.

Grandpa Hassan

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

OK, fair enough. Didn't know that. But the lack of qualification in the past hasn't stopped clubs from wanting to win the thing. Clubs will still want to win the Amlin, especially once is progresses and they see the opportunity for silverware.

Incentive to win the Europa League

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Europa_League#Prize_money

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

"Evidence".
Are we really here again?

Simple question. Who will cover the costs of the Spanish team playing in Russia?

Who says Spanish teams will be playing in Russia?

Have you seen the proposed formats for the 3rd tier competition as proposed?

Can you not just answer questions?

Grandpa Hassan

Deleted User wrote: »

Incentive to win the Europa League

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Europa_League#Prize_money

£4m prize money in itself is hardly much of an incentive for a premiership club to play that many extra games. Wanting to win some silverware would be a much bigger one, and the same would go for the Amlin

Grandpa Hassan

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

£4m prize money in itself is hardly much of an incentive for a premiership club to play that many extra games. Wanting to win some silverware would be a much bigger one, and the same would go for the Amlin

It's a lot more than that. You get match win bonuses, group win bonuses. Everyone picks up €1.3m just for being in the group stages too.

It's closer to £7/8m.

I certainly couldn't imagine that not being a big deal for Stoke, Fulham, Newcastle, Southampton etc

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you not just answer questions?

The question makes no sense though. Do you know what the proposed structures are at all, or have you just completely dismissed the ideas without knowing anything about them?

Do you know how the women's champion's league is organised in soccer? How on earth could such a competition exist without massive amounts of money to pay for it I wonder?

Right. I'll make it straightforward.

Who is going to pay for a pan-European third tier rugby tournament?

An answer, not 3 questions to straw man on would be nice. Might be worth thinking about PRL and LNR's stance on "subsidising" the Italians thus far too.

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

Right. I'll make it straightforward.

Who is going to pay for a pan-European third tier rugby tournament?

(As an aside, you do realise that women's professional football has more players and money in it than Spanish rugby?)

I'm sure Delon Wray will cough up...

keps

Reading between the lines, it appears to me that, in effect, the ERC will run the HC going forward.

A new wholly owned ERC subsidiary company will probably be formed to allow the PRL to say they got what they wanted.

justsomebloke

However the all important question that everyone one is avoiding is do we get to keep our stars on our jerseys?

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Right. I'll make it straightforward.

Who is going to pay for a pan-European third tier rugby tournament?

An answer, not 3 questions to straw man on would be nice. Might be worth thinking about PRL and LNR's stance on "subsidising" the Italians thus far too.

The biggest amount of funding would come from the participants.

Larbre34

BT to be thrown the bone of the England Autumn Internationals to make them go away, that'll do grand.

bilston

So while we await official confirmation of the details of this "new" competition wonder what the impact might be on Welsh regional rugby.

1) Their unrealistic dream of an A/W league will predictably go down the pan now that the English no longer need them as a negotiating tool so now they'll have to accept their place in the hated (in Wales) Pro 12 or whatever it will be marketed as.

2) If we assume the new qualification criteria to the Tier 1 European competition will be top team from each of the four countries plus the next three teams then it is very conceivable that the Welsh will be left with just two teams in European tier one next season and probably for the forseeable future.

At the moment the following teams would qualify

IRELAND - Munster
SCOTLAND - Glasgow
WALES - Ospreys
ITALY - Treviso

plus

Leinster
Ulster
Scarlets

That's going to be pretty costly for the Welsh and actually in all of this the biggest losers won't be Irish rugby, it will be Welsh, Scottish and Italian rugby. Ironic really when you consider that we've been accused by some of being the main obstacle to these changes. If anything we'll be better off with fewer teams to share the apparently increased pie where as our Celtalian colleagues will suffer.

Who'd have guessed...

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The biggest amount of funding would come from the participants.

Is there to be any assistance to the third tier under the proposed changes you see?

Could you flesh this out a little further and explain why this is in any way good for the third tier of rugby?

Is the proposed plan (mentioned twice 2 years ago and banished from all and every press release, interview and soundbite since) not just "remove the weak teams from the Amlin and let them play themselves"?

bilston

bilston wrote: »

That's going to be pretty costly for the Welsh and actually in all of this the biggest losers won't be Irish rugby, it will be Welsh, Scottish and Italian rugby. Ironic really when you consider that we've been accused by some of being the main obstacle to these changes. If anything we'll be better off with fewer teams to share the apparently increased pie where as our Celtalian colleagues will suffer.

Who'd have guessed...

Not I

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79157217&postcount=42
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79158547&postcount=54
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79178042&postcount=118

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is there to be any assistance to the third tier under the proposed changes you see?

Could you flesh this out a little further and explain why this is in any way good for the third tier of rugby?

Is the proposed plan (mentioned twice 2 years ago and banished from all and every press release, interview and soundbite since) not just "remove the weak teams from the Amlin and let them play themselves"?

A competitive 3rd tier competition that allows those teams to compete with each other rather than losing 70-0 every week. A prize of Amlin rugby to the qualifiers. The benefits of that are self evident.

There is already assistance to the 3rd tier through the IRB via FIRA.

legendary.xix

At the very least the Amlin winner should take on the winner of 7th France v 7th England.