Prius+ 7 seater

colm_mcm

Despite getting a platform update in 2010, the touran is still basically an 11 year old design.

noelf

wtawfick wrote: »

Hi Noelf,

I had a look at Commons cars in Navan. On their website they're only quoting the 3.9% across their range of models. I'll still give them a ring in the morning and ask.

I don't think a Passat estate would do it for us though. We need the 7 seats. No harm in asking them if they have better rates on the Touran though.

Yea you have to look for it David dolan is the sales manager . Also check out Bradys in Cavan a bit closer to home

wtawfick

BMJD wrote: »

105bhp automatic diesel should be enough to convince you not to choose the Touran

Guys, you're killing me here. So now you want me to rule out the Touran as well :pac: !!! This would be the first time for me to do exactly as my wife says when it comes to cars;)

On a serious note though, the Touran I have is a 2004 1.6 litre Petrol automatic. The petrol engine on it is as lousy as hell (too weak for that heavy a car) & the automatic transmission is pretty laggy. While that was acceptable by 2004 standards, I was hoping the diesel engine would be an improvement. I've been reassured by friends who have newer VW TDIs automatics that the new transmission isn't laggy at all.

Now you're saying the 105bhp automatic diesel isn't that great. Unfortunately the 2 litre diesel automatic is out of my league. Too far up a jump for me to afford.

colm_mcm

Touran is only a fancy Caddy

Chippy01

wtawfick wrote: »

This would be the first time for me to do exactly as my wife says when it comes to cars;)

And just think of all the brownie points that'll earn you as well.:D:D
Win-Win situation!!

BMJD

wtawfick wrote: »

This would be the first time for me to do exactly as my wife says

we believe you

wtawfick

colm_mcm wrote: »

Despite getting a platform update in 2010, the touran is still basically an 11 year old design.

That was my main gripe about the Touran. It looks exactly the same as the 2004 one we already have (both inside & out). I kind of feel we're not really getting an upgrade. It's exactly the same car, but with a newer engine & more responsive transmission

& yes I get the fancy Caddy bit

wtawfick

noelf wrote: »

Yea you have to look for it David dolan is the sales manager . Also check out Bradys in Cavan a bit closer to home

Thanks Noelf,

I really appreciate it. I'll ring both dealers in the morning.

wtawfick

Chippy01 wrote: »

And just think of all the brownie points that'll earn you as well.:D:D
Win-Win situation!!

If only life were that easy :P

wtawfick

wtawfick wrote: »

They have the lithium battery on the Prius+. Theoretically speaking it's supposed to be pretty efficient. It's well hidden under the arm rest between the driver & front passenger seats.

Everything on this thread about the Prius seems quite positive & reassuring. My only concern, is do you think that it'll be something that would appeal to people if I were to sell it in a few years time.

I wasn't sure if they actually installed the lithium battery yet or not thanks for that, pity it's not a plug in. So it must be pretty small.

I think people are becoming more aware that the prius isn't a gimmick and the technology is well proven itself to be ultra reliable.

I think it certainly will be easy sell in a few years, they are holding their value very well and I certainly wouldn't hesitate in buying another I wouldn't go back to diesel again unless I had no choice.

They are holding their value better than they were when we got ours. So the word must be spreading.

I know what I'll be getting next !

Leonard Hofstadter

The 1.6 TDI in the Passat is chronically underpowered with a manual gearbox, I shudder to think how slow that engine would be with an automatic and in a much taller car, especially when fully laden.

The Citroen won Top Gear's family car of the year, so it can't be too bad. I don't see anything special about the Prius + unless you absolutely have to have an automatic. It's unlikely to be very fast eithger, with a 0-100 time of 11.3 seconds.

Citroen has a really bad reputation in Ireland for some reason, probably goes back to the time the dealers were found to be price fixing. The Citroen is much cheaper to buy than the Prius, but I think it's only the 2.0 that has a proper automatic. The 1.6 is just an automated manual as far as I know.

wtawfick

Deleted User wrote: »

I wasn't sure if they actually installed the lithium battery yet or not thanks for that, pity it's not a plug in. So it must be pretty small.

I think people are becoming more aware that the prius isn't a gimmick and the technology is well proven itself to be ultra reliable.

I think it certainly will be easy sell in a few years, they are holding their value very well and I certainly wouldn't hesitate in buying another I wouldn't go back to diesel again unless I had no choice.

They are holding their value better than they were when we got ours. So the word must be spreading.

I know what I'll be getting next !

Cool. All sounds positive. This is some info on the battery in the Prius+:

Optimised Full Hybrid Powertrain Featuring a new Lithium-ion Battery

Compact, High Output Lithium-ion Battery


The Prius+’s lithium-ion battery replaces nickel-metal hydrid technology within a non-plug-in Toyota full hybrid for the first time. Located within the vehicle centre console between the front seats, the new battery is significantly lighter and more compact than that of the Prius.

A new cell structure design equips the lithium-ion battery with just 56 cells arranged in a vertically double stacked structure. This occupies significantly less volume than a Prius battery and, at 34 kg, is 8 kg lighter. Despite these reductions in both size and weight, the Prius+ battery has the same rated voltage of 202 V, and has an identical maximum output.

I was in the current model touran in Germany last summer, nice interior but the 1.6 TDI engine was not great, underpowered and sounded strained. It would be much better with the 2.0 litre. While more refined than the pd engines you'll still know it's a diesel.

I found my short spin in the Mk III Prius to be better than the Mk II, there was a nice noticeable amount of extra power and was quieter. Economy wise. I couldn't comment. The interior was nicer too. Not up to VW standards of course, but still better.

captainspeed

captainspeed wrote: »

The 1.6 TDI in the Passat is chronically underpowered with a manual gearbox, I shudder to think how slow that engine would be with an automatic and in a much taller car, especially when fully laden.

The Citroen won Top Gear's family car of the year, so it can't be too bad. I don't see anything special about the Prius + unless you absolutely have to have an automatic. It's unlikely to be very fast eithger, with a 0-100 time of 11.3 seconds.

Citroen has a really bad reputation in Ireland for some reason, probably goes back to the time the dealers were found to be price fixing. The Citroen is much cheaper to buy than the Prius, but I think it's only the 2.0 that has a proper automatic. The 1.6 is just an automated manual as far as I know.

Yes I found the 1.6 underpowered, I didn't find it as torquey as the old 1.9 104 hp pd engine.

The Prius drivetrain in the current model isn't too slow, 9-9.5 seconds 0-100 isn't too bad at all.

What it would be like in the 7 seater fully laden is anyone's guess probably much better than the 1.6 touran though.

If I had the option then I'd probably choose 170 hp tdi touran ( dare I say it) and dsg, but there is a higher chance the tdi will go wrong, and it costs more to maintain. And the 6 speed dsg needs oil changes every 40 k miles. The 170 hp would most likely be ridiculously over priced though. And the Prius most likely more economical.

No belts in a Prius what so ever to maintain.

It's a pity there isn't a more powerful plug in version of the Prius with a decent size battery.

wtawfick

captainspeed wrote: »

The 1.6 TDI in the Passat is chronically underpowered with a manual gearbox, I shudder to think how slow that engine would be with an automatic and in a much taller car, especially when fully laden.

The Citroen won Top Gear's family car of the year, so it can't be too bad. I don't see anything special about the Prius + unless you absolutely have to have an automatic. It's unlikely to be very fast eithger, with a 0-100 time of 11.3 seconds.

Citroen has a really bad reputation in Ireland for some reason, probably goes back to the time the dealers were found to be price fixing. The Citroen is much cheaper to buy than the Prius, but I think it's only the 2.0 that has a proper automatic. The 1.6 is just an automated manual as far as I know.

I'm under no illusion that any of the 3 cars I'm looking at is fast. The main use is school runs, ferrying kids & family inside town. My wife is the one who'll be driving it most of the time. My own car gives me my sufficient speed fix, so I'm happy to go slow when I'm driving the other car. Most of our intercity travelling is Galway-Dublin, which is now all motorway. We rarely need to worry about building up speed to overtake.

When I test drove the Prius+ (on a motorway stretch of road, where I could put the foot down), it was admittedly slow, however it was actually faster & more responsive than the 2004 Touran we have. Our current Touran is 1.6 Petrol automatic. Unfortunately Western Motors didn't have a 1.6 diesel automatic new Touran in the showroom for me to try.

Regarding the Citroen, yes, the 1.6 is an automated manual. EXTREMELY ANNOYING to drive. That's why I had asked to test drive the 2 litre full automatic. They're getting me one to try tomorrow afternoon.

wtawfick

wtawfick wrote: »

Cool. All sounds positive. This is some info on the battery in the Prius+:

Optimised Full Hybrid Powertrain Featuring a new Lithium-ion Battery

Compact, High Output Lithium-ion Battery


The Prius+’s lithium-ion battery replaces nickel-metal hydrid technology within a non-plug-in Toyota full hybrid for the first time. Located within the vehicle centre console between the front seats, the new battery is significantly lighter and more compact than that of the Prius.

A new cell structure design equips the lithium-ion battery with just 56 cells arranged in a vertically double stacked structure. This occupies significantly less volume than a Prius battery and, at 34 kg, is 8 kg lighter. Despite these reductions in both size and weight, the Prius+ battery has the same rated voltage of 202 V, and has an identical maximum output.

Is the lithium battery the same kWh usable though ?

wtawfick

Deleted User wrote: »

Is the lithium battery the same kWh usable though ?

Regarding the kWh: Couldn't find official figures on Toyota's website. Got this from a review of the car:

1,798cc 16-valve four-cylinder Atkinson Cycle petrol: 100PS/98bhp/73kW @ 5,200rpm; 142Nm torque @ 4,000rpm

Permanent magnet synchronous electric motor, maximum voltage 650; output 83PS/81bhp/60kW; 207Nm torque.

Lithium-ion battery nominal voltage 201.6 DC V; capacity 5Ah/1.0kWh; max output 37PS/36bhp/27kW

Maximum system output: 136PS/134bhp/100kW

The official performance figures on Toyota Ireland website:

Power: 136bhp(system)
Torque: 142/4000
0-100km/h (seconds): 11.3sec
CO2 (g/km): 96
Fuel Consumption:
Combined: 4.1 L/100km (68.9mpg)
Urban: 3.8 L/100km (74.3mpg)
Extra-Urban: 4.2 L/100km (67.3mpg)

galwaytt

You'll have no problem selling the Prius in years to come.

Listen to your wife: life's too short otherwise. Mine just made me buy a car too.

996 cabriolet.

I'm gutted

Still -at least she's happy. . :pac:

wtawfick

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes I found the 1.6 underpowered, I didn't find it as torquey as the old 1.9 104 hp pd engine.

The Prius drivetrain in the current model isn't too slow, 9-9.5 seconds 0-100 isn't too bad at all.

What it would be like in the 7 seater fully laden is anyone's guess probably much better than the 1.6 touran though.

If I had the option then I'd probably choose 170 hp tdi touran ( dare I say it) and dsg, but there is a higher chance the tdi will go wrong, and it costs more to maintain. And the 6 speed dsg needs oil changes every 40 k miles. The 170 hp would most likely be ridiculously over priced though. And the Prius most likely more economical.

No belts in a Prius what so ever to maintain.

It's a pity there isn't a more powerful plug in version of the Prius with a decent size battery.

When I test drove the Prius+, it was definitely more in keeping with the 11+ seconds for 0-100 that's mentioned in the brochure. I'd say the 9-9.5 seconds you're getting is the price I have to pay for getting a 7 seater.

As for the 170hp Touran I couldn't even find those specs. The highest available is a 2.0 TDI 140Hp DSG (automatic). That is already bringing it up to €42,000 without even factoring in the rear view camera & the sunroof (which both the Prius+ & the Citroen Grand Picasso have, at a much cheaper price). That's over 6 grand dearer than the Prius+. If I add in the sunroof & rear view camera, it'll bring the difference to 8-9 grand. You might argue that these are just gimmicks that we don't really need & I fully agree. I'm just trying to compare like for like & see what I'll get for my money.

The Touran 1.6TDI auto is only a couple grand dearer than the Prius+. When you factor in that VW have better APR finance rates (3.9% vs 7.9% for the Toyota), it actually ends up being about €500 cheaper (even taking into account the cheaper road tax of the Prius+ over the course of 3 years).

wtawfick

galwaytt wrote: »

You'll have no problem selling the Prius in years to come.

Listen to your wife: life's too short otherwise. Mine just made me buy a car too.

996 cabriolet.

I'm gutted

Still -at least she's happy. . :pac:

Man you must be really gutted.

So let me get this straight; SHE had to try to convince YOU to buy a 996 cabrio.

You're in Galway as well. I must get your wife to have a chat with mine :D

wtawfick

wtawfick wrote: »

Lithium-ion battery nominal voltage 201.6 DC V; capacity 5Ah/1.0kWh; max output 37PS/36bhp/27kW

That's about the same as the MK II and III nimh battery, just in a smaller lighter package.

wtawfick

wtawfick wrote: »

When I test drove the Prius+, it was definitely more in keeping with the 11+ seconds for 0-100 that's mentioned in the brochure. I'd say the 9-9.5 seconds you're getting is the price I have to pay for getting a 7 seater.

As for the 170hp Touran I couldn't even find those specs. The highest available is a 2.0 TDI 140Hp DSG (automatic). That is already bringing it up to €42,000 without even factoring in the rear view camera & the sunroof (which both the Prius+ & the Citroen Grand Picasso have, at a much cheaper price). That's over 6 grand dearer than the Prius+. If I add in the sunroof & rear view camera, it'll bring the difference to 8-9 grand. You might argue that these are just gimmicks that we don't really need & I fully agree. I'm just trying to compare like for like & see what I'll get for my money.

The Touran 1.6TDI auto is only a couple grand dearer than the Prius+. When you factor in that VW have better APR finance rates (3.9% vs 7.9% for the Toyota), it actually ends up being about €500 cheaper (even taking into account the cheaper road tax of the Prius+ over the course of 3 years).

Wow 42k for the 2.0 tdi touran ? Mental !

I certainly wouldn't have the 1.6 touran !

wtawfick

Deleted User wrote: »

wtawfick wrote: »

Lithium-ion battery nominal voltage 201.6 DC V; capacity 5Ah/1.0kWh; max output 37PS/36bhp/27kW

That's about the same as the MK II and III nimh battery, just in a smaller lighter package.

The fact that it has the same output as the tried & tested previous models should be good. I'm just wondering if it should have had a bit more, to be able to cope with the added weight of the 7 seater.

RedDeadMarshal

wtawfick wrote: »

Thanks RedDeadMarshall. I got the same impression about the Citroen when I test drove it. Just cheap plastic interior. The only reason I had it in the comparison, was because it had the most gizmos, specs & options, at a cheaper price. When I drove it though, that's exactly what I felt "CHEAP". The semi-automatic gearbox was "HORRENDOUS" to say the least. That's why I thought of the full automatic 2 litre version. I put it out there to see if someone would talk me in to getting it. At least you've confirmed my fears.

You said
When you say a no no, is that because it's a hybrid, or is there another reason. I won't be using the car to tow anything. It's basically to carry around the kids & family. School runs & the occasional trip from Galway to Dublin. I don't need major towing power. The verso D4D unfortunately doesn't come in automatic. The only automatic version is a petrol engine, which will end up being even more expensive than the Prius+

Hybrid yeah too much electronics it's not enough that on my diesel Toyota 7 computers have to control the whole engine. I guess you can give it a try, but if you are afraid like me then go for the VW. Less that can go wrong and don't listen to anyone who says vw is ****. VW is vw, respected all around the world. I have a mate with an Octavia 1.6 tdi 105bhp, same one as you're looking, correct? I was amazed with the torque it doesn't pull like the old 1.9 but it's just so effortless in 6th gear at 140km/h. Oh if you are buying a tdi drive it hard which your wife wont do. Take it on the motorway at high speeds to clear the cat and never ever shift when the computer tells you to. The engine builds up carbon in the cat and it will be a costly repair. The car should tell you on the dash when it needs to be cleared, Don't ignore it good luck whichever option you go for ( not the citroen).

RedDeadMarshal

RedDeadMarshal wrote: »

Hybrid yeah too much electronics it's not enough that on my diesel Toyota 7 computers have to control the whole engine. I guess you can give it a try, but if you are afraid like me then go for the VW. Less that can go wrong and don't listen to anyone who says vw is ****. VW is vw, respected all around the world. I have a mate with an Octavia 1.6 tdi 105bhp, same one as you're looking, correct? I was amazed with the torque it doesn't pull like the old 1.9 but it's just so effortless in 6th gear at 140km/h. Oh if you are buying a tdi drive it hard which your wife wont do. Take it on the motorway at high speeds to clear the cat and never ever shift when the computer tells you to. The engine builds up carbon in the cat and it will be a costly repair. The car should tell you on the dash when it needs to be cleared, Don't ignore it good luck whichever option you go for ( not the citroen).

LOL

Less that can go wrong in a TDI ? lol funny that considering the prius is a whole lot more reliable than any TDI !

And of course you know you don;t have to worry about the (dpf) nor cat in a prius or flywheel !!!

sawdoubters

test drive them

the prius plus looks small to hold 7 looks like underpowered if it was full

RedDeadMarshal

colm_mcm wrote: »

#2.2headgasketfailure

Ok you got me but it doesn't happen to every one of them he can always go for the 2.0

RedDeadMarshal

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL

Less that can go wrong in a TDI ? lol funny that considering the prius is a whole lot more reliable than any TDI !

And of course you know you don;t have to worry about the (dpf) nor cat in a prius or flywheel !!!

never had a problem with mine except for the clutch it cant handle the tdi's torque.

wtawfick

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL

Less that can go wrong in a TDI ? lol funny that considering the prius is a whole lot more reliable than any TDI !

And of course you know you don;t have to worry about the (dpf) nor cat in a prius or flywheel !!!

Thanks Mad_Lad,

RedDeadMarshall has a good point when he said "it's just so effortless in 6th gear at 140km/h". This made me think of a question for you. How's the Prius on a long distance drive, say doing 120-140km/hr all the way from Galway to Dublin. I did test drive the car on the motorway, but that was only for less than a 5km stretch. It was just to bring it up to speed. I'm not sure about a long distance drive. Also how stable is it on the motorway (lets say in stormy & gusty winds as we had a few days ago).
The Touran that I have is pretty slow getting up to speed, but it has no problem maintaining it once it gets there. It's also a very heavy car, so quite stable on the road

TBi

I'd be surprised if a 1.8l petrol couldn't keep any car going at 80MPH. You don't need much power to keep a car going at a steady pace, you only need the power to accelerate fast. This is why turbo diesels are efficient on the motorway, the turbo (which gives the extra power for acceleration) spins down and you are effectively running on a normal 1.6/2.0 engine.

I think a diesel would be more economical than the prius going at motorway speeds (not by much mind) but the prius has much less to go wrong with it. Everyone is scared of the electronics but if you search for prius and electronics failures you'll find very little (i did a LOT of searching). It has been proven over the last 10 years to be a very reliable technology. The battery, if it needs to be replaced in 10 years, will cost about the same as a new clutch/flywheel/DPF in a diesel.

Now go and search for diesels and DPF failure, then DMF failure, then clutch failure. Then go search for injector failure. Also search for what happens to a diesel if you get washed diesel, not an expensive fix. My friend needed 3k+ to replace injectors and get a new fuel pump on his 1.6TDi octavia. Not to mention his clutch and flywheel went after 3 years of ownership.

And no one tells you about adblue. My friend bought a Seat Alhambra on my recommendation, same as a VW Sharan with 2.0TDi. He needs to top up at every service and it is very expensive.

Mad_Lad is a bit too into his Prii but he does make some very good points and after doing a lot of research i've been totally turned off the thought of a diesel. People only see the initial savings but never look or count up the hidden costs of diesel.

EDIT: Before i get jumped on, it seems you can buy adblue cheaper if you don't get it at a dealer. I'll let my buddy know, he was pissed off when he got the bill at the time but he argued until they did it for free since he'd just bought the car.