Zamano still "at it"

mjbob

I Too just received a monthly Bill which I was charged €30.44 for 12 texts I received from this so called business ZAMANO, I have emailed my operator three and awaiting a reply, my next step us comreg, I certainly did not click on any ad on any site for them to begin sending me these emails, I text back to 57030 and simply put STOP to which I got a reply saying I have not subscribed to anything!!! So if I did not subscribe how did they get my number and how can it be legal to SEND ME 12 texts and charge ME €30.44???? I am absolutely livid...

Riamfada

Three won't be able to help you with this. You will need to deal with Zamano directly or Comreg. I suggest calling or writing to Zamano. Three has a regulatory obligation to allow third party service providers to access its network once their service has been authorised by the Regulator for Premium Rate Services.

Phone: 076 6801002 Email: cs@zamano.com

sandin

nothing whatsoever to do with three - no use complaining to them.

Your first step is Zamano - they are who charged you.

Chattastrophe!

I had the same thing, no idea how they got my number.

I called Zamano, in fairness the cheque they issued me for €75 more than covered the cost of the texts I received (maybe €30) - still not worth the hassle of it all though. :mad:

mjbob

I emailed Zamano and awaiting a reply, thanks for suggestions. will let know how it works out

B0jangles

I had a similar problem a couple of years ago - my phone unlocked itself in my bag and managed to sign me up for a premium rate astrology text service. This may sound unbelievable, but it happened - the ads for these shítty services are set up to be in default screen locations and for the default responses to clicks to be "Accept" rather than "Reject" as is normal practice.

I only knew what had happened when I got two very expensive texts within 2 minutes. I immediately texted the given cancellation number and wrote a pretty aggressive (but still polite) email to the parent company demanding that they remove me from their service and refund all charges. Happily they did so pretty quickly and also confirmed that my number would be blocked from signing up to any more of thier services.

brokenarms

I got stung also by this sort of thing by entering an email competition from Ikea.

I did not uncheck a box in the terms and conditions and got entered into a competition which was really a subscription. 50 euro down the tube.

I went crazy with vodafone that they let these Bas6tards screw people over with small print.

sedric

Handle it by mail and log everything.
E mail a complaint to Zamano immediately looking for refund.

Comreg will say Zamano have 10 days to answer the complaint.
Keep after them .

Give your mobile supplier an earful, he didn't protect you and if fact happily deducted money from your account and gave it to Zamano without your permission.

Similarly allow this "service" to go on without clamping down.
They neither force the mobile providers to protect their customers nor stop the services.

Don't gie up the chase, they hope you will.

Best of luck

Macspower

For those that don't know. Zamano are an sms "premium" service provider based in Dublin. A simple google or a check on here will show that they are the base of many complaints going back years.

Today I received our company phone bill and I noted 12 euro of premium services billed to our bill.

On the 7th of Jan at 10.45 I was walking into a shop and I received 4 texts in a row from a user just called "push service" Then I received a text from a number 57767 simultaneously asking me to click for sam bailey content.

I immediately phoned my phone provider and they told me to type stop and reply which I did.

I received another message from a user called free message and it said "you are not subscribed to any service"

So end of I thought until I received the bill today.

I phoned the service provider who said they could not help and pointed me to a number to complain to and wait for it.... although the company is based in dublin this will put you through to signapore. The operator explained that it would cost more than a local call.. She was well versed in her rebuttals and obviously well used to dealing with complaints and tried every angle to get me to accept the charge on this occasion..

anyway they have agreed to send a refund and I have contacted comreg who say I should receive a cheque within 28 days or get back to them.

This to me is like the original bottle of snake oil and they will cough up a refund to those who make enough noise but how many people just say "to hell with it" and let it go once it stops.

They only need a small % to not look for a refund and they win..

Be careful these guys are still around and will be around if you don't complain.
If you have been charged without your consent complain to them directly and to comreg.

sedric

This is happening for quite a while.
If you are hit , email them (email gives a better record,as well as a personal one)
Ask for money back immediately
Cancellation of all services from them as you did not request any.
Removal of your number from their records as you did not give it to them
Confirmation they will not repeat this .

Also send a Email of complaint to the regulator Comreg who has consistently allowed this type of suspect service to continue. Despite numerous complaints

Best of luck

Oryx

They make money because people don't complain. EVERYBODY who gets <SNIP> by this lot need to report it and get their money back. Its the only way to stop the whole <SNIP>. While they get away with it they will keep doing it.

Macspower

No cheque yet...

And even the idea of a cheque means they have one more chance that it won't be cashed.. I've spoken to several who were caught and once it stopped they were happy enough and never looked for a refund.

One lady was telling me they took her childs credit for weeks before it was spotted.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Confused by the reference to one more chance with a cheque. Why might it not be cashed if someone requested a refund?

fivesixtwo

Still no real regulation here in this sector ,comreg dont seem to get involves unless you are really forceful with a complaint ,
Everyone makes money from these <SNIP> , the network operators , the content providers and the platform operators .

The 10 0r 12 Euros that most people loose is divided up nicely between all . and they all blame each other and when comreg is a toothless guard dog nothing will change .

We had an unsolicited text message from Zamano , a year ago on a company phone . A complaint was made to O2 in order to prevent them taking the money from our account .but they firmly sided with Zamano and paid them their share .

We immediately ported all 5 company phones from O2 and refused to pay their final bill of over 700 euros .

We instructed them to take us to court over the matter , within 3 weeks they issued a full credit for the total and cleared the account .

Their refusal to pay back 18 euro cost them 700 , plus the loss of business , But they must be raking it in from the mugs who dont complain and stand up to them .

Revenue sharing from these <SNIP> is now a higher proportion of their business here now it was a number of years ago .

Five Lamps

All the phone companies are having their cake and eating it with PRS providers. They collect the money from the subscriber and take a cut of the revenue generated and then claim it's nothing to do with them when the customer complains. At least one operator has an arrangement where it will pass over your phone number to the PRS operator when you click on a banner advert on their website.

cgarvey

Five Lamps wrote: »

At least one operator has an arrangement where it will pass over your phone number to the PRS operator when you click on a banner advert on their website.

Have you any evidence to support that allegation?

Macspower

Alaric Rapid Squadron wrote: »

Confused by the reference to one more chance with a cheque. Why might it not be cashed if someone requested a refund?

this was the old trick with the snake oil.... and several money back schemes..

Ok I sell you a bottle of water for 10 euro and tell you that it is "cureallillnessesandfeelgood liquid" and it will cure whatever ailment you have or "your money back" ...

A certain percentage will look for their money back and when they do you give it by cheque. A certain percent of these cheques will never be cashed for whatever reason. someone with no bank account.. someone just happy enough that they got a refund ( they do exist).... forgot about.. etc..

Macspower

Five Lamps wrote: »

All the phone companies are having their cake and eating it with PRS providers. They collect the money from the subscriber and take a cut of the revenue generated and then claim it's nothing to do with them when the customer complains. At least one operator has an arrangement where it will pass over your phone number to the PRS operator when you click on a banner advert on their website.

On further investigation ( yes I have a bee in my bonnet with them now) it seems that the regulation changed last year making it a 2 click system if you click an advert.. However if you download an APP and consent to all the stuff that your asked to do ( in particular a free app) usually without reading it.. one fo the things you consent to is for the APP to pass your number on should you click on the advert..

Several of these clever apps kindly have banner ads strategically placed so you hit them by accident.. I even read of one where the off button on a simple flashlight app changes to a banner add every few seconds. Click and your charged!

As pointed out already the phone company, the app maker and the snake oil guy all get paid from this... and if the money is kept small enough ( there is an optimum amount) then most will not pursue it.

I've told O2. It's quite simple. If I don't get a refund from Zimano I will not be paying it on my bill and they can pursue me for it... At least I have that option. the prepays don't.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Macspower wrote: »

this was the old trick with the snake oil.... and several money back schemes..

Ok I sell you a bottle of water for 10 euro and tell you that it is "cureallillnessesandfeelgood liquid" and it will cure whatever ailment you have or "your money back" ...

A certain percentage will look for their money back and when they do you give it by cheque. A certain percent of these cheques will never be cashed for whatever reason. someone with no bank account.. someone just happy enough that they got a refund ( they do exist).... forgot about.. etc..

I'm sorry but you are pushing credulity with that. A certain percentage? If someone is stupid enough to look for a refund and then not cash the cheque it can hardly be due to any deviousness on the part of the retailer/supplier.

Macspower

Alaric Rapid Squadron wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are pushing credulity with that. A certain percentage? If someone is stupid enough to look for a refund and then not cash the cheque it can hardly be due to any deviousness on the part of the retailer/supplier.

Not really... Of course I don't know the % .. but just use logic...

If they refunded via original method of payment like everyone else ie credit to account then 100% of people get paid.. However sending a cheque will rarely result in 100% of people cashing them for whatever reason.

Anyway lets not get hung up on that part of it... It's only an observation as an aside.

mjbob

mjbob wrote: »

I Too just received a monthly Bill which I was charged €30.44 for 12 texts I received from this so called business ZAMANO, I have emailed my operator three and awaiting a reply, my next step us comreg, I certainly did not click on any ad on any site for them to begin sending me these emails, I text back to 57030 and simply put STOP to which I got a reply saying I have not subscribed to anything!!! So if I did not subscribe how did they get my number and how can it be legal to SEND ME 12 texts and charge ME €30.44???? I am absolutely livid...

Hi just to let all know how I git on with ZAMANO, I received the full amount the took from my account by cheque in the post last week, if they are willing to refund you with no questions asked they obviously are <SNIP>. Thanks all for your help on getting a resolution from this company. Martina.

dudara

Zamano threads merged

dudara

Ste.phen

brokenarms wrote: »

I got stung also by this sort of thing by entering an email competition from Ikea.

I did not uncheck a box in the terms and conditions and got entered into a competition which was really a subscription. 50 euro down the tube.

I went crazy with vodafone that they let these Bas6tards screw people over with small print.

Just to be clear, that had absolutely nothing to do with Ikea, some other company ran ads online or on TV saying 'win an ikea gift card by entering this competition'

Pretty much no company would run a competition for their own gift cards which requires payment to enter

Amalgam

Five Lamps wrote: »

All the phone companies are having their cake and eating it with PRS providers. They collect the money from the subscriber and take a cut of the revenue generated and then claim it's nothing to do with them when the customer complains. At least one operator has an arrangement where it will pass over your phone number to the PRS operator when you click on a banner advert on their website.

cgarvey wrote: »

Have you any evidence to support that allegation?

It happens. Glossed over on Joe Duffy a while back, but given the nature of that show it got lost in the whoop whoop hysteria..

*All* the mobile phone operators enter deals with the likes of Z***** to 'allow' activity on their network. They have the final say, it's their hardware.

The <SNIP> provider was implicated in this practice.

A certain broadcaster was/is involved too. You would want to have a screw loose to enter, 'win cash on the radio' tat, because, often, you are 'allowing' your phone number to be abused at a future date, by the company handling the competition.

The whole world of phone in competitions is a very very secretive industry, when it comes to profits and arrangements. In one form or another, always at the phone owner's expense. Either through the dislosure of private data, or money, or both.

It is the closest you can come to plucking profits out of thin air.

fbradyirl

I recently got <SNIP> by Zamano, and contacted Comreg ( consumerline@comreg.ie ) with the following email:

I have received a cheque from Zamano for the refund of charges taken, however, I fear that many Irish people will be totally <SNIP> by this.

For example, I only noticed the charges because I am a bill paying user of Vodafone. If I was on prepay (on any network), then my credit would simply disappear and I would not know why that was happening, because there is no itemised way of seeing that.

What we need is action. We need to block these types of companies from <SNIP> the public. Similar to what is happening in the US:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/28/ftc_anticramming_report_shows_carriers_how_to_stop_acting_like_jerks/

FTC to mobile carriers: <SNIP - Not what the FTC themselves said>

The US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has urged mobile carriers to crack down on scams that lure people into receiving expensive texts.

The commission has published a "cramming" report [PDF] that states that American networks are failing to protect subscribers from unfair or deceptive premium service charges, levied by sleazy companies.

The FTC has in recent months begun an enforcement campaign to crack down on "cramming," a type of billing fraud in which a third party uses the lure of free services or one-time charges to trick people into signing up and paying for recurring monthly fees, a portion of which is given to the carrier.
According to the commission, many carriers are not guarding users from bogus charges nor providing adequate tools for reporting and disputing monthly premium service charges on bills.

The FTC has drawn up a list of best practices for tackle cramming charges.

"At activation, carriers should inform consumers that third-party charges may be placed on their mobile accounts and carriers should give consumers the opportunity to block all charges at that time," the FTC suggests.

"Carriers should also clearly and prominently inform consumers of options to block charges from third parties while accounts are active, including on the carriers’ websites."

Other proposed measures include better informing users of premium charges on their bills and providing detailed descriptions of subscriptions. Furthermore, carriers are asked to improve their dispute resolution processes so customers can resolve premium billing complaints.

The report also addresses some of the tactics third-party services use to trick users into signing up for premium services, such as hiding billing details in the background of web pages or tucking charge information into the bottom of long messages.

The aim, said the FTC, is to address what it sees as a deficiency in many US carriers in regards to detecting and resolving the unwanted charges users are subjected to by unsavory third-party vendors.

"Industry efforts have fallen short on both fronts. For example, carriers are not taking sufficient action against merchants with high refund rates," the FTC wrote.

"Further, the voluntary standards developed by industry have largely focused on text-message based Premium SMS services and have not specifically addressed other types of carrier billing including app- or mobile web-based billing using [direct carrier billing] arrangements."

Though the report concludes with recommendations from the FTC staff, carriers who don't take adequate measures to crack down on cramming could soon find themselves in the agency's crosshairs. T-Mobile US found itself on the sharp end of a lawsuit alleging the carrier took hundreds of millions of dollars in revenues from cramming charges.

20Cent

After getting stung by this myself recently. I see threads from 2003 about the same issue on boards!
Got a refund straight away but have a bee in my bonnet over this and want to find out exactly how they got my number. Have looked through a few threads on this and haven't found a definitive answer yet. I know it starts with a banner ad in an app, once clicked this opens a browser window. One more click and you get the premium SMS messages sent to your phone and are charged.

Trying to figure out how they get the number from clicking on a banner ad though! They sent me a screenshot of the page and it says that the mobile service provider gives them the number. My service provider say they don't. When I got back onto Zamano they changed the their story and say I must have entered my number into a page and then submitted it. I know this definitely didn't happen. Found the app where the ad was placed it was a kids game.

Got the log file but it is information about the messages they sent me not how they got my number. Have asked them to send me the log file where I gave them my number (I am certain this is not how it happened) waiting for that in fairness its only been a few days so will get back to them later in the week.

So did anyone figure out definitively how they get the phone numbers to send the texts?

L1011

The network provider is 100% giving the numbers to them - I'm currently going through the motions with the DPC over it. I've done a fairly extensive traffic analysis (transparent, logging, proxy servers in the way mostly) and the number is never exchanged by the phone browser but sufficient identifying information is for them to have obtained the number from the network.

The tenner or so of credit on a burn phone it cost me to do that was refunded the instant I asked for it to be, as they know they're acting so dodgily to begin with. Network are acting as if they're innocent though.

seagull

I'd have thought the phone companies would be very leery of passing on details as that could land them in serious trouble with the data protection commission. Unless there's something hidden in the small print.

Bigcheeze

Glad to see that the US regulators have come down hard on this and fined AT&T $105 million for defrauding customers on premium SMS.

http://www.rcrwireless.com/20141009/carriers/att-mobility-docked-record-105m-fine-for-bill-cramming-tag2

These practises are exactly the same as those employed by Irish carriers and the EU needs to step up to prevent carriers from abusing their customers.

The US regulators found that it's not good enough for carriers to pass the buck to the sms providers.

“We now know that wireless companies profited while their customers were fleeced by unscrupulous third parties who added millions of dollars in unauthorized charges to consumer phone bills,” said Travis LeBlanc, chief of the FCC’s Enforcement Bureau. “Today’s historic settlement holds AT&T responsible for its billing practices and puts money directly back into the pockets of consumers.”

20Cent

MYOB wrote: »

The network provider is 100% giving the numbers to them - I'm currently going through the motions with the DPC over it. I've done a fairly extensive traffic analysis (transparent, logging, proxy servers in the way mostly) and the number is never exchanged by the phone browser but sufficient identifying information is for them to have obtained the number from the network.

The tenner or so of credit on a burn phone it cost me to do that was refunded the instant I asked for it to be, as they know they're acting so dodgily to begin with. Network are acting as if they're innocent though.

Have to say so far that it does seem to be the case the provider supplies the number. Would be interested to know how you get on with the DPC can you let me/us know.

Currently in contact with both awaiting replies.

20Cent

Got the mobile provider telling me they didn't get number from them.
Premium sms company are saying they did.
Thinking it could be the app that did it now.

If this is the case anyone know if that is legal or not?
For an app to send your number to a third party?