Mount Carmel Hospital to close

Gael23

Shocking news. Will have an impact on a lot of people.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/three-hundred-jobs-lost-as-liquidator-appointed-to-mount-carmel-hospital-29947364.html

spank_inferno

They can poop out their babies in the cattle mart that is Holles street.

Anita B Jaynow

That's a shame.

Frank Black

ryanf1 wrote: »

Shocking news. Will have an impact on a lot of people.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/three-hundred-jobs-lost-as-liquidator-appointed-to-mount-carmel-hospital-29947364.html

Private company goes into liquidation?

Excuse me if I refuse to be shocked.

VONSHIRACH

Where will the caesarians be performed now?

Gael23

I had eye surgery there 4 years ago, they do a lot more than c sections

Dyr

Some its clients may have to use public hospitals now, oh the humanity

force eleven

This is the (partly/mostly) the impact of health insurance hikes, more to follow I'm afraid.

Zillah

It's a four story hospital, only one of those floors is for maternity. They have a day ward where all manner of treatments are done, a full blood lab, a dietician and an X-Ray department. Their patients range from kids getting their tonsils done to old folks getting..well, all manner of things.

Shame that so many jobs are probably going to be lost.

Bambi wrote: »

Some its clients may have to use public hospitals now, oh the humanity

A small but significant percentage of their patients are actually there on the public plan.

Yes I used to work there

300 + people went into work today to be told their jobs are gone. A quick look at their wesbite tells me that Mount Carmel is going into its 65th year, it's a very sad day when we see a business that's around that long close its doors.

But sure no doubt this thread will be full of bitter thanks whoring posts by people who convince themselves that only the elite have health insurance.

Gael23

Deleted User wrote: »

300 + people went into work today to be told there jobs are gone. A quick look at their wesbite tells me that Mount Carmel is going into it's 65th year, it's a very sad day when we see a business that's around that long close it's doors.

But sure no doubt this thread will be full of bitter thanks whoring posts by people who convince themselves that only the elite have health insurance.

Well we all know that's not true. I was private but my consultant at the time advised us to go there rather than the eye & ear hospital. To be honest I was feeling so awful afterwards I could have been on a public ward with 8 others and not noticed.

seamus

ITT: People sneering at other people for having the audacity to pay for better healthcare.

Ironically, I imagine lots of those laughing about the "poor rich people" were probably born in Mount Carmel themselves.

ryanf1

ryanf1 wrote: »

Well we all know that's not true.

All know what's not true?

spank_inferno

seamus wrote: »

Ironically, I imagine lots of those laughing about the "poor rich people" were probably born in Mount Carmel themselves.

"Probably"??

You sure?

I don't know how many babies are born there, but I imagine its a small proportion of all in this nation.

Gael23

Deleted User wrote: »

All know what's not true?

That only the elite have health insurance. Sorry should have been clearer.

ryanf1

ryanf1 wrote: »

That only the elite have health insurance. Sorry should have been clearer.

Hang around AH long enough and you'll think differently!

Eight Ball

Oh no will expectant women from D4 have to slum it with the working classes in public hospitals now? Oh the poor things.

McGrath5

What an awful shame, I hope the staff there can find employment elsewhere quickly.

wiz569

Very sad

I was born there,

Sorry slightly off topic.

Eight Ball

Eight Ball wrote: »

Oh no will expectant women from D4 have to slum it with the working classes in public hospitals now? Oh the poor things.

Working class people have babies there too.

How do you feel about all the people losing their jobs?

Eutow

Eight Ball wrote: »

Oh no will expectant women from D4 have to slum it with the working classes in public hospitals now? Oh the poor things.

The hospital performs other procedures as well in case you didn't know. Anyway, do you have a problem with people paying private healthcare?

Bambi wrote: »

Some its clients may have to use public hospitals now, oh the humanity

Yeah, because that's the most important issue. :rolleyes:

GCU Flexible Demeanour

force eleven wrote: »

This is the (partly/mostly) the impact of health insurance hikes, more to follow I'm afraid.

How is it the impact of "heath insurance hikes". Sure, the insurers are paying out substantially more in claims now than in 2008. Point to another business that's have an increase in income since 2008.

There's a drop of a few percent in the population covered by private health insurance. But that's quite different to saying that the private hospital sector have had a drop in income.

Fratton Fred

seamus wrote: »

Ironically, I imagine lots of those laughing about the "poor rich people" were probably born in Mount Carmel themselves.

And moan about skangers/unemployed/travellers/Atari jaguars.

josip

I have heard an obstetrician remark that just because it was a private maternity, it didn't guarantee that the baby would be safer.
They said that obstetrician experience is most important and that in a busy public hospital obstetricians would have more experience for the full spectrum of potential complications than in a smaller private hospital.
Is there any truth to this?

P_1

Any hospital having to close its doors is not good news no matter where the hospital is or the socio-economic status of its patients.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

josip wrote: »

I have heard an obstetrician remark that just because it was a private maternity, it didn't guarantee that the baby would be safer.

They said that obstetrician experience is most important and that in a busy public hospital obstetricians would have more experience for the full spectrum of potential complications than in a smaller private hospital.

Is there any truth to this?

There's some truth to it. Mount Carmel wouldn't have the capacity to deal with a real medical emergency. When such cases arose, they'd have to pop mother and baby into an ambulance and get them to Holles Street ASAP.

Gael23

josip wrote: »

I have heard an obstetrician remark that just because it was a private maternity, it didn't guarantee that the baby would be safer.
They said that obstetrician experience is most important and that in a busy public hospital obstetricians would have more experience for the full spectrum of potential complications than in a smaller private hospital.
Is there any truth to this?

I believe that they are now equipped to deal with any emergency after 32 weeks. I'm not sure about complications with the mother though.

Teyla Emmagan

I had my wisdom teeth taken out there and my sister had a tonsillectomy. It's a nice, small, clean hospital and I know a few people working there, this will be an awful loss to the area.

I would never have had a baby there mind, I'm still very sorry to hear it's closing. Less choice is a bad thing for all of us. Hope all those people who have paid deposits for upcoming surgeries get their money back.

anncoates

If people want to pay extra, it's their call.

That said, I was once told by a colleague (who had both their kids in MC) that in the case of some natal/postnatal emergencies you would have to be sent to The Coombe anyway as they weren't equipped to deal with it in MC?

Does anybody know if this is true?

If it is, it seems a bit pointless to pay through the nose for cosmetic luxuries when going private in a public hospital at least would prevent you having to make an ambulance dash across the city in the event of something going wrong.

emmabrighton

I was booked in there but was shipped St Elsewhere when my baby started having difficulty at 22 weeks. He was born a prem at 28 weeks in the rotunda in the public ward.

*Oh No!!!!!!* - my skanger northsider son

Except for the massive trek to the toilet after an emergency c-section, it was a lovely hospital... lovely midwives, neonatal nurses, sonographers, cleaning staff and of course Prof. Malone.

I actually found the level of service at my appointments much better than in Mt Carmel. Was waiting 2 hrs one day at Mt Carmel...

So, dont worry mums...

Frank Black

P_1 wrote: »

Any hospital having to close its doors is not good news no matter where the hospital is or the socio-economic status of its patients.

No it's not. We have far too many hospitals for a country that has the same population as the greater Manchester Area.

We need less hospitals and better services in those that remain.

Unfortunately any time we try to stream-line medical services in this country a local action group puts pressure on their local representatives and the Joe Duffy phone-in shows are clogged with callers who think that even though they live in Ballybackass they shouldn't be more than a 10minute drive from their nearest hospital.

Airy-Fairy attitudes like yours ensure we will always have a **** health system.

anncoates

anncoates wrote: »

If people want to pay extra, it's their call.

That said, I was once told by a colleague (who had both their kids in MC) that in the case of some natal/postnatal emergencies you would have to be sent to The Coombe anyway as they weren't equipped to deal with it in MC?

Does anybody know if this is true?

If it is, it seems a bit pointless to pay through the nose for cosmetic luxuries when going private in a public hospital at least would prevent you having to make an ambulance dash across the city in the event of something going wrong.

TBH that's the situation for most hospitals in the country, you will often hear of people having an emergency transferred to Beaumont because they have the best neuro unit in the country. Or to St. Vincent's because they are liver specialists etc.

As far as I know though, and I may well be wrong so I'm open to correction, I believe that if the baby needs to be transferred but mother is well, they are separated and mother would have remained in MC. Not sure I like that idea of that now but it may not be the case.

Cuddlesworth

Some serious value there in term of land.

Gael23

Are the consultants out on their ear as well?

ryanf1

ryanf1 wrote: »

Are the consultants out on their ear as well?

Yes but very few of them would be directly employed by Mount Carmel. They will however have to look to other hospitals to accomodate their patients.

spank_inferno

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Some serious value there in term of land.

Which could well be why NAMA have decoded to pull the plug.

Femme_Fatale

Personally I wouldn't choose to have a baby in Mount Carmel as I'd prefer to go somewhere (anywhere, even though I'm paying health insurance - because I feel I kinda have to; nothing to do with status, thought everyone knew that) with max. facilities.

emmabrighton wrote: »

I was booked in there but was shipped St Elsewhere when my baby started having difficulty at 22 weeks. He was born a prem at 28 weeks in the rotunda in the public ward.

*Oh No!!!!!!* - my skanger northsider son

Just wondering whom that comment is aimed at?

Except for the massive trek to the toilet after an emergency c-section, it was a lovely hospital... lovely midwives, neonatal nurses, sonographers, cleaning staff and of course Prof. Malone.

I actually found the level of service at my appointments much better than in Mt Carmel. Was waiting 2 hrs one day at Mt Carmel...

So, dont worry mums...

People are only saying it's sad that an established hospital has had to close down - not seeing anyone express worry about not being able to have a baby there.

anncoates

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH that's the situation for most hospitals in the country, you will often hear of people having an emergency transferred to Beaumont because they have the best neuro unit in the country. Or to St. Vincent's because they are liver specialists etc.

As far as I know though, and I may well be wrong so I'm open to correction, I believe that if the baby needs to be transferred but mother is well, they are separated and mother would have remained in MC. Not sure I like that idea of that now but it may not be the case.

Yeah was only based on a conversation. Just chilled me because my wife had serious complications on our first son and he was in major distress and they were pretty on the ball in the Coombe (semi private).

Generally I think the difference between MC and going to a public hospital is a luxury choice so not really as iniquitous in principle as other sectors of the health system. It's not like you're put on 3 year waiting list to deliver your child if you go public so opting for MC is hardly stealing resources as it were.

anncoates

Re: people mentioning health insurance. I wouldn't have thought most policies would give you much whack of a place as expensive as MC?

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as I know though, and I may well be wrong so I'm open to correction, I believe that if the baby needs to be transferred but mother is well, they are separated and mother would have remained in MC. Not sure I like that idea of that now but it may not be the case.

End result in that situation is not much different in Holles St for example.
Our son was born early and was whisked off to Unit 8.
Mammy remained 2 floors down for another 2 nights before she was kicked out.
(I hid and slept on the floor beside Mammy's bed the first night to the consternation of the nurse in the morning.)

Gael23

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but very few of them would be directly employed by Mount Carmel. They will however have to look to other hospitals to accomodate their patients.

Im surprised they didnt come together to try and buy it. At least the maternity part

anncoates

anncoates wrote: »

Re: people mentioning health insurance. I wouldn't have thought most policies would give you much whack of a place as expensive as MC?

On a VHI plan B (or whatever the equivalent is now) you'd be entitled to a semi private bed in a private hospital.

In somewhere like Blackrock - which is considered a "High Tech" hospital, they have high excesses - however Blackrock waive them directly for inpatient and day cases. So Health Insurance can make a huge difference really.

ryanf1 wrote: »

Im surprised they didnt come together to try and buy it. At least the maternity part

It's gone into liquidation for a reason, if it was profitable it wouldn't be closing down.

anncoates

ryanf1 wrote: »

Im surprised they didnt come together to try and buy it. At least the maternity part

They should move the Coombe to that site so fathers don't spend the few days before due date having nightmares about finding a parking spot in the grounds of the hospital when the mot is on labour.

anncoates

Deleted User wrote: »

On a VHI plan B (or whatever the equivalent is now) you'd be entitled to a semi private bed in a private hospital.

In somewhere like Blackrock - which is considered a "High Tech" hospital, they have high excesses - however Blackrock waive them directly for inpatient and day cases. So Health Insurance can make a huge difference really.

.

Ah yeah, we have insurance but I would have thought MC is different to having to get a procedure done in a private clinic or hospital as it's essentially optional as in you can give birth in a public hospital. I would have thought you'd still have a fairly decent wedge to pay.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Tabnabs

To all the glee merchants talking about "slumming it" in Holles St. You've obviously never seen their very pleasant private maternity ward...

The fact the MC has gone, means less choice for patients and longer queues in other hospitals.

anncoates

anncoates wrote: »

Ah yeah, we have insurance but I would have thought MC is different to having to get a procedure done in a private clinic or hospital as it's essentially optional as in you can give birth in a public hospital. I would have thought you'd still have a fairly decent wedge to pay.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Nah most surgeries done in Private Hospitals are elective. Guess you could look at it the other way, giving birth once the baby is in is no longer optional

anncoates

Deleted User wrote: »

Nah most surgeries done in Private Hospitals are elective. Guess you could look at it the other way, giving birth once the baby is in is no longer optional

I was thinking more about your insurance covering you when you have no choice but to go to a private clinic for a certain procedure whereas I assume there's no pressing maternity/medical need to opt for MC over a public hospital.

Chips Lovell

force eleven wrote: »

This is the (partly/mostly) the impact of health insurance hikes, more to follow I'm afraid.

It's more to do with good old fashioned property boom greed.

Property developer Gerry Conlon borrowed €60 million from AIB to buy the hospital from the Sisters of Mercy in 2006 and even planned to spend €100 million redeveloping it before the bust. Those loans are now all in NAMA and the company hadn't a hope of repaying them.

Hopefully someone buys it out of liquidation. But the fact that it hasn't been prior to NAMA pulling the plug means it isn't looking good.

emmabrighton

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't choose to have a baby in Mount Carmel as I'd prefer to go somewhere (anywhere, even though I'm paying health insurance - because I feel I kinda have to; nothing to do with status, thought everyone knew that) with max. facilities.

Just wondering whom that comment is aimed at?

People are only saying it's sad that an established hospital has had to close down - not seeing anyone express worry about not being able to have a baby there.

To all the moms and dads who are panicking of course (whether they post in this thread or just lurk)...

Some people will feel that a private hospital is better because you pay for what you get... and even after all the research, you still feel that if you pay for it then it must be better...

I am letting them know not to be afraid.

Think of all the moms who are due in the next couple of months... this would be scary news for them... They chose Mt Carmel because they believed it was the best... Now they are being told they cant have it...

Fratton Fred

[Deleted User] wrote: »

TBH that's the situation for most hospitals in the country, you will often hear of people having an emergency transferred to Beaumont because they have the best neuro unit in the country. Or to St. Vincent's because they are liver specialists etc.

As far as I know though, and I may well be wrong so I'm open to correction, I believe that if the baby needs to be transferred but mother is well, they are separated and mother would have remained in MC. Not sure I like that idea of that now but it may not be the case.

I can't speak for MC but I know of several people who paid to have their babies in the Princess Margaret hospital in Windsor, only to be carted off to Wexham Park at the slightest sign of a complication.

This meant several parents expecting their child to have a "Royal Borough" birth cert and ending up with a Slough one.

Irish Steve

How much more efficient would the health service be if it didn't need a mountain of administrators working out the cost of every procedure, prescription etc to then bill the private insurers? If, and it's a forlorn if, the health service was properly funded and there was no need for such administration, or private insurers, would it be a better service?

Consultants dedicated to just being consultants, not splitting their time between public and private services.
Staff concentrating on providing medical services, rather than admin

Sounds too utopian to be true, or possible,

As someone said, the entire country only has a population slightly larger than the size of the metropolitan areas of Birmingham, so why is it so hard to get the system to work for people the way it needs to.