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Child Item

Mount Carmel Hospital to close

Gael23

Shocking news. Will have an impact on a lot of people.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/three-hundred-jobs-lost-as-liquidator-appointed-to-mount-carmel-hospital-29947364.html

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[Deleted User]

anncoates wrote: »

If people want to pay extra, it's their call.

That said, I was once told by a colleague (who had both their kids in MC) that in the case of some natal/postnatal emergencies you would have to be sent to The Coombe anyway as they weren't equipped to deal with it in MC?

Does anybody know if this is true?

If it is, it seems a bit pointless to pay through the nose for cosmetic luxuries when going private in a public hospital at least would prevent you having to make an ambulance dash across the city in the event of something going wrong.

TBH that's the situation for most hospitals in the country, you will often hear of people having an emergency transferred to Beaumont because they have the best neuro unit in the country. Or to St. Vincent's because they are liver specialists etc.

As far as I know though, and I may well be wrong so I'm open to correction, I believe that if the baby needs to be transferred but mother is well, they are separated and mother would have remained in MC. Not sure I like that idea of that now but it may not be the case.

Cuddlesworth

Some serious value there in term of land.

Gael23

Are the consultants out on their ear as well?

[Deleted User]

ryanf1 wrote: »

Are the consultants out on their ear as well?

Yes but very few of them would be directly employed by Mount Carmel. They will however have to look to other hospitals to accomodate their patients.

spank_inferno

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Some serious value there in term of land.

Which could well be why NAMA have decoded to pull the plug.

Femme_Fatale

Personally I wouldn't choose to have a baby in Mount Carmel as I'd prefer to go somewhere (anywhere, even though I'm paying health insurance - because I feel I kinda have to; nothing to do with status, thought everyone knew that) with max. facilities.

emmabrighton wrote: »

I was booked in there but was shipped St Elsewhere when my baby started having difficulty at 22 weeks. He was born a prem at 28 weeks in the rotunda in the public ward.

*Oh No!!!!!!* - my skanger northsider son

Just wondering whom that comment is aimed at?

Except for the massive trek to the toilet after an emergency c-section, it was a lovely hospital... lovely midwives, neonatal nurses, sonographers, cleaning staff and of course Prof. Malone.

I actually found the level of service at my appointments much better than in Mt Carmel. Was waiting 2 hrs one day at Mt Carmel...

So, dont worry mums...

People are only saying it's sad that an established hospital has had to close down - not seeing anyone express worry about not being able to have a baby there.

anncoates

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH that's the situation for most hospitals in the country, you will often hear of people having an emergency transferred to Beaumont because they have the best neuro unit in the country. Or to St. Vincent's because they are liver specialists etc.

As far as I know though, and I may well be wrong so I'm open to correction, I believe that if the baby needs to be transferred but mother is well, they are separated and mother would have remained in MC. Not sure I like that idea of that now but it may not be the case.

Yeah was only based on a conversation. Just chilled me because my wife had serious complications on our first son and he was in major distress and they were pretty on the ball in the Coombe (semi private).

Generally I think the difference between MC and going to a public hospital is a luxury choice so not really as iniquitous in principle as other sectors of the health system. It's not like you're put on 3 year waiting list to deliver your child if you go public so opting for MC is hardly stealing resources as it were.

anncoates

Re: people mentioning health insurance. I wouldn't have thought most policies would give you much whack of a place as expensive as MC?

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as I know though, and I may well be wrong so I'm open to correction, I believe that if the baby needs to be transferred but mother is well, they are separated and mother would have remained in MC. Not sure I like that idea of that now but it may not be the case.

End result in that situation is not much different in Holles St for example.
Our son was born early and was whisked off to Unit 8.
Mammy remained 2 floors down for another 2 nights before she was kicked out.
(I hid and slept on the floor beside Mammy's bed the first night to the consternation of the nurse in the morning.)

Gael23

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but very few of them would be directly employed by Mount Carmel. They will however have to look to other hospitals to accomodate their patients.

Im surprised they didnt come together to try and buy it. At least the maternity part

[Deleted User]

anncoates wrote: »

Re: people mentioning health insurance. I wouldn't have thought most policies would give you much whack of a place as expensive as MC?

On a VHI plan B (or whatever the equivalent is now) you'd be entitled to a semi private bed in a private hospital.

In somewhere like Blackrock - which is considered a "High Tech" hospital, they have high excesses - however Blackrock waive them directly for inpatient and day cases. So Health Insurance can make a huge difference really.

ryanf1 wrote: »

Im surprised they didnt come together to try and buy it. At least the maternity part

It's gone into liquidation for a reason, if it was profitable it wouldn't be closing down.

anncoates

ryanf1 wrote: »

Im surprised they didnt come together to try and buy it. At least the maternity part

They should move the Coombe to that site so fathers don't spend the few days before due date having nightmares about finding a parking spot in the grounds of the hospital when the mot is on labour.

anncoates

Deleted User wrote: »

On a VHI plan B (or whatever the equivalent is now) you'd be entitled to a semi private bed in a private hospital.

In somewhere like Blackrock - which is considered a "High Tech" hospital, they have high excesses - however Blackrock waive them directly for inpatient and day cases. So Health Insurance can make a huge difference really.

.

Ah yeah, we have insurance but I would have thought MC is different to having to get a procedure done in a private clinic or hospital as it's essentially optional as in you can give birth in a public hospital. I would have thought you'd still have a fairly decent wedge to pay.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Tabnabs

To all the glee merchants talking about "slumming it" in Holles St. You've obviously never seen their very pleasant private maternity ward...

The fact the MC has gone, means less choice for patients and longer queues in other hospitals.

[Deleted User]

anncoates wrote: »

Ah yeah, we have insurance but I would have thought MC is different to having to get a procedure done in a private clinic or hospital as it's essentially optional as in you can give birth in a public hospital. I would have thought you'd still have a fairly decent wedge to pay.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Nah most surgeries done in Private Hospitals are elective. Guess you could look at it the other way, giving birth once the baby is in is no longer optional

anncoates

Deleted User wrote: »

Nah most surgeries done in Private Hospitals are elective. Guess you could look at it the other way, giving birth once the baby is in is no longer optional

I was thinking more about your insurance covering you when you have no choice but to go to a private clinic for a certain procedure whereas I assume there's no pressing maternity/medical need to opt for MC over a public hospital.

Chips Lovell

force eleven wrote: »

This is the (partly/mostly) the impact of health insurance hikes, more to follow I'm afraid.

It's more to do with good old fashioned property boom greed.

Property developer Gerry Conlon borrowed €60 million from AIB to buy the hospital from the Sisters of Mercy in 2006 and even planned to spend €100 million redeveloping it before the bust. Those loans are now all in NAMA and the company hadn't a hope of repaying them.

Hopefully someone buys it out of liquidation. But the fact that it hasn't been prior to NAMA pulling the plug means it isn't looking good.

emmabrighton

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't choose to have a baby in Mount Carmel as I'd prefer to go somewhere (anywhere, even though I'm paying health insurance - because I feel I kinda have to; nothing to do with status, thought everyone knew that) with max. facilities.

Just wondering whom that comment is aimed at?

People are only saying it's sad that an established hospital has had to close down - not seeing anyone express worry about not being able to have a baby there.

To all the moms and dads who are panicking of course (whether they post in this thread or just lurk)...

Some people will feel that a private hospital is better because you pay for what you get... and even after all the research, you still feel that if you pay for it then it must be better...

I am letting them know not to be afraid.

Think of all the moms who are due in the next couple of months... this would be scary news for them... They chose Mt Carmel because they believed it was the best... Now they are being told they cant have it...

Fratton Fred

[Deleted User] wrote: »

TBH that's the situation for most hospitals in the country, you will often hear of people having an emergency transferred to Beaumont because they have the best neuro unit in the country. Or to St. Vincent's because they are liver specialists etc.

As far as I know though, and I may well be wrong so I'm open to correction, I believe that if the baby needs to be transferred but mother is well, they are separated and mother would have remained in MC. Not sure I like that idea of that now but it may not be the case.

I can't speak for MC but I know of several people who paid to have their babies in the Princess Margaret hospital in Windsor, only to be carted off to Wexham Park at the slightest sign of a complication.

This meant several parents expecting their child to have a "Royal Borough" birth cert and ending up with a Slough one.

Irish Steve

How much more efficient would the health service be if it didn't need a mountain of administrators working out the cost of every procedure, prescription etc to then bill the private insurers? If, and it's a forlorn if, the health service was properly funded and there was no need for such administration, or private insurers, would it be a better service?

Consultants dedicated to just being consultants, not splitting their time between public and private services.
Staff concentrating on providing medical services, rather than admin

Sounds too utopian to be true, or possible,

As someone said, the entire country only has a population slightly larger than the size of the metropolitan areas of Birmingham, so why is it so hard to get the system to work for people the way it needs to.

Frank Black

Fratton Fred wrote: »

IThis meant several parents expecting their child to have a "Royal Borough" birth cert and ending up with a Slough one.

Good Gawd!

*Monocle falls into brandy glass

Pumpkinseeds

I think it's a shame that we have a 2 tier health system in this country. Imho, things were better when private patients were treated in public hospitals, at least that way the money was going into the hospital and it beneffited public patients as well as private ones.

Just thinking of the situation with that other hospital in Dublin, the one with both a public and a private hospital on campus and only 10 of it's 200 consultants treat public patients. That's typical of why public patients are waiting for years to be seen.

languagenerd

I was born in MC, as was my brother. We're not particularly rich or anything and we certainly aren't from D4, my parents just made a decision to go private (for whatever reason, it suited them at the time).

Sad to see it close down after 65 years. That's a lot of jobs lost and a sudden increase in the numbers needing to use the maternity facilities in other hospitals, which are already quite full.

To those making "haha posh people can't have their babies there now!" comments - it's about a lot more than that, grow up!

Penny Dreadful

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH that's the situation for most hospitals in the country, you will often hear of people having an emergency transferred to Beaumont because they have the best neuro unit in the country. Or to St. Vincent's because they are liver specialists etc.

As far as I know though, and I may well be wrong so I'm open to correction, I believe that if the baby needs to be transferred but mother is well, they are separated and mother would have remained in MC. Not sure I like that idea of that now but it may not be the case.

Which is exactly why all of the experts say that a maternity hospital and paediatric hospital should be co located with an acute adult hospital too.

Dades

There's a lot of preconceptions in this thread that obviously have nothing to do with reality or personal experience.

Just good old Irish Schadenfreude.

[Deleted User]

anncoates wrote: »

I was thinking more about your insurance covering you when you have no choice but to go to a private clinic for a certain procedure whereas I assume there's no pressing maternity/medical need to opt for MC over a public hospital.

They do though, a lot of insurance companies really push their maternity cover and private hospitals would help to sell that.

They won't cover all of your consultantation costs but they'll cover the procedure and hospital stay.

fussyonion

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I had my wisdom teeth taken out there and my sister had a tonsillectomy. It's a nice, small, clean hospital and I know a few people working there, this will be an awful loss to the area.

I would never have had a baby there mind, I'm still very sorry to hear it's closing. Less choice is a bad thing for all of us. Hope all those people who have paid deposits for upcoming surgeries get their money back.

My sister had a tonsillectomy in Mount Carmel too and we were shocked at the dirt of the ward she was on.
There was blood on the floor by her bed and the next day when I went to visit her, it still hadn't been cleaned.
The bins were overflowing and there were dirty marks on the window-ledge.

Never experienced that when I was in a public hospital.
But we're slightly off topic anyway.
It's a shame there's so many job losses.

spank_inferno

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I think it's a shame that we have a 2 tier health system in this country. Imho, things were better when private patients were treated in public hospitals, at least that way the money was going into the hospital and it beneffited public patients as well as private ones.

Just thinking of the situation with that other hospital in Dublin, the one with both a public and a private hospital on campus and only 10 of it's 200 consultants treat public patients. That's typical of why public patients are waiting for years to be seen.

1 sentence bemoans a private & public system.
The next extols it.

Fratton Fred

Irish Steve wrote: »

How much more efficient would the health service be if it didn't need a mountain of administrators working out the cost of every procedure, prescription etc to then bill the private insurers? If, and it's a forlorn if, the health service was properly funded and there was no need for such administration, or private insurers, would it be a better service?

Consultants dedicated to just being consultants, not splitting their time between public and private services.
Staff concentrating on providing medical services, rather than admin

Sounds too utopian to be true, or possible,

As someone said, the entire country only has a population slightly larger than the size of the metropolitan areas of Birmingham, so why is it so hard to get the system to work for people the way it needs to.

Head of HSE - €400K per year
Head of NHS - £250K per year.

Rembering, of course, the head of the NHS manages the largest number of employees in Europe.

Nemeses

Bambi wrote: »

Some its clients may have to use public hospitals now, oh the humanity

The point of having private hospitals is to avoid the long waits at public hospitals and what not, maybe better facilities and whatever else there might be.

Don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong with public hospitals.. just ... Lottsa delays!