Mount Carmel Hospital to close

Zillah

When the nun's sold the place it was in debt for something mental like 16 million. They ran it into the ground and then retired happily. There was also talk of the new owners creating an underground car park and then using the land that is currently occupied by the car park for residential development, which I imagine is the only reason they bought it in the first place.

SEPT 23 1989

I wonder which politically connected developer is revving the engine of the bulldozer?

Santa Cruz

Nemeses wrote: »

The point of having private hospitals is to avoid the long waits at public hospitals and what not, maybe better facilities and whatever else there might be.

Don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong with public hospitals.. just ... Lottsa delays!

And women who have had a baby can't go to the toilet unless they have someone to mind their belongings. My sister had a baby in the Rotunda. One day after coming back from the toilet she saw her baby's babygro on another womens child. What could she do?

josip

Dades wrote: »

There's a lot of preconceptions in this thread that obviously have nothing to do with reality or personal experience.

Correct, Mount Carmel was much more interested in postconceptions.

anncoates

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They won't cover all of your consultantation costs but they'll cover the procedure and hospital stay.

You'd still have to foot an awful lot more from your pocket overall for MC than say private in Holles Street after your insurance had contributed though?

Not arguing a point, more interested. I'd have thought it was still a far more expensive option overall than private in a public hospital.

Jerrica

There's no difference in the care you receive whether you go public or private. The differences are seen in the wards you stay in, the waiting rooms you use and the frequency of which consultant you see. Private health insurance entitles you to 3 - 5 nights in a semi-private or private room, if you're public you stay in a ward with more new mums. Even if you're semi-private or private you could still be in a ward, it's space dependent. The big difference going private is that you're effectively "attached" to one consultant and you're guaranteed to see them at each prenatal visit (unless they're on holiday) and you pay for the services of the consultant.

The prospect of giving birth can be overwhelming and scary as it is, if someone wants to choose for a little bit of extra comfort that they can afford to pay for, why all the begrudgery?

anncoates

Santa Cruz wrote: »

And women who have had a baby can't go to the toilet unless they have someone to mind their belongings. My sister had a baby in the Rotunda. One day after coming back from the toilet she saw her baby's babygro on another womens child. What could she do?

DEY TURK R BABYGROS

Jerrica

anncoates wrote: »

You'd still have to foot an awful lot more from your pocket overall for MC than say private in Holles Street after your insurance had contributed though?

Not arguing a point, more interested. I'd have thought it was still a far more expensive option overall than private in a public hospital.

I think it's more expensive by and large. Private consultant fees in the Rotunda range from around €2500 - €6000, but afaik (and I stand to be corrected here) a stay in MC would set you back a little more than that.

anncoates

anncoates wrote: »

You'd still have to foot an awful lot more from your pocket overall for MC than say private in Holles Street after your insurance had contributed though?

Nope!

Less in fact, because you're not guaranteed a private bed in Holles Street at all, but in order to be even considered for one you have to go to your consultant fully privately whereas you can get better "packages" in Mount Carmel and stay in a semi private ward.

Jerrica

Jerrica wrote: »

I think it's more expensive by and large.

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope! Less in fact,

:pac:

Just to totally confuse anncoates there!

anncoates

I thanked both for directly answering my question although I was thinking more of direct comparison between private in MC and private in public. Didn't realize you could go semi private in MC.

NufcNavan

I was originally scheduled to have surgery on my jaw (removal of braces) for the last few years in St. James' Hospital. They have delayed and delayed and delayed the surgery right up to the point where they refuse to answer my calls or reply to my emails on the situation.

However, I got a phone call a few weeks ago saying that the surgeon was switching his surgery location to Mount Carmel, and he was drawing up dates for surgery (i.e in the next few weeks). It was a breakthrough, but of course I heard nothing since in the next few weeks, and then today's news.

I just feel that I'm going to be kept in the dark about the whole thing again. There will be no explanation as to what will happen next and St. James will probably have the nerve to send me out a letter in a few months asking me if I still wished to be placed on the waiting list for surgery. Farcical.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Jerrica wrote: »

The prospect of giving birth can be overwhelming and scary as it is, if someone wants to choose for a little bit of extra comfort that they can afford to pay for, why all the begrudgery?

What begrudgery? Surely the story is simply "private company can't stay in business, despite a 30% increase in the value of the market it compete in, compared to 2008".

anncoates

anncoates wrote: »

I thanked both for directly answering my question although I was thinking more of direct comparison between private in MC and public. Didn't realize you could go semi private in MC.

You can go semi private in almost all private hospitals (Blackrock being the exception I think [although possibly the Beacon also]).

Jerrica

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

What begrudgery? Surely the story is simply "private company can't stay in business, despite a 30% increase in the value of the market it compete in, compared to 2008".

Absolutely, I was referring to the "posh pusher" kind of posts.

Santa Cruz

Jerrica wrote: »

There's no difference in the care you receive whether you go public or private. The differences are seen in the wards you stay in, the waiting rooms you use and the frequency of which consultant you see. Private health insurance entitles you to 3 - 5 nights in a semi-private or private room, if you're public you stay in a ward with more new mums. Even if you're semi-private or private you could still be in a ward, it's space dependent. The big difference going private is that you're effectively "attached" to one consultant and you're guaranteed to see them at each prenatal visit (unless they're on holiday) and you pay for the services of the consultant.

The prospect of giving birth can be overwhelming and scary as it is, if someone wants to choose for a little bit of extra comfort that they can afford to pay for, why all the begrudgery?

Wouldn't they be better off spending their money on John Player Blue, Stella Artois and fake tan

Ave Sodalis

Frank Black wrote: »

No it's not. We have far too many hospitals for a country that has the same population as the greater Manchester Area.

And a land area far greater than that. People may not need a hospital within a ten minute radius, but some people are quite far out from a hospital. In fact, once you leave a city, most people are much further than ten minutes out. I live in Donegal, my nearest hospital is over an hour away and I can tell you, an hour is a long time to wait when you're in serious difficulty. I agree that the services need to be better but there are far too many hospitals over run, and too many people lying in halls for you to claim we have too many hospitals.

rainbow kirby

A friend of my family is now in a bit of a situation - 34 weeks pregnant and due to deliver at MC...

rainbow kirby

rainbow kirby wrote: »

A friend of my family is now in a bit of a situation - 34 weeks pregnant and due to deliver at MC...

She'll be able to deliver in any public hospital, so she'll be looked after. If she's lucky she'll have chosen a consultant who also sits elsewhere and who can just transfer her care. First thing she should do is contact her consultant, if she has difficulty doing that she should contact MC and try to get her medical chart.

Gael23

rainbow kirby wrote: »

A friend of my family is now in a bit of a situation - 34 weeks pregnant and due to deliver at MC...

She is one of many. I would imagine her consultant will be in touch shortly.

van_beano

rainbow kirby wrote: »

A friend of my family is now in a bit of a situation - 34 weeks pregnant and due to deliver at MC...

She's not the only one. I wonder what arrangements will be made, will it be the same consultant?

Also on a financial viewpoint - what'll happen to the €500+ deposit that's already paid - are they unsecured creditors?

Dades

The consultants will continue to look after their existing patients but operate from a different hospital - likely Holles Street.

Money paid to Mount Carmel, as opposed to the consultant is likely gone into NAMA's pocket.

Gael23

van_beano wrote: »

She's not the only one. I wonder what arrangements will be made, will it be the same consultant?

Also on a financial viewpoint - what'll happen to the €500+ deposit that's already paid - are they unsecured creditors?

There is little to no hope of getting deposits back but money paid to consultants will be ok

van_beano

ryanf1 wrote: »

There is little to no hope of getting deposits back but money paid to consultants will be ok

Best I can hope for is 20% of it back from the good old revenue

Dingle_berry

Does anyone know if it is just the mount Carmel hospital/site or is it the whole group? (They have other hospitals like Aut Even in Kilkenny)

Also what will happen to the medical records? Will they become the property/responsibility of the consultants, NAMA, patients or next of kin, ....?

For expectant parents: I wouldn't worry about the health and safety of mother and baby. There are three other excellent, specialist maternity hospitals near by including the national tertiary referral centre for obstetrics. These three hospitals have private and semi-private care available as well as public.

For all patients: your consultants will be able to arrange to care for you in another hospital. There are plenty in Dublin. It may just take some time for your consultants to find and book facilities.

Hopefully some healthcare group out there had their eye on the company waiting for the price tag to drop. That's the best hope for the staff?

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Dades wrote: »

Money paid to Mount Carmel, as opposed to the consultant is likely gone into NAMA's pocket.

Although, in fairness, NAMA has been bankrolling the place for the past few years, so it's not as if they're doing well out of this turn of events.

Dingle_berry wrote: »

Hopefully some healthcare group out there had their eye on the company waiting for the price tag to drop. That's the best hope for the staff?

Maybe, although is the liquidation not a suggestion that the assets are more valuable than the enterprise as a going concern? Bearing in mind, there's an awful lot of private hospital capacity out there at present.

Can't help noticing a post from another site

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=755789#p755789

I'm hearing that it's like the Wild West in Mt C today, Drs trying to get equipment out some of which they bought themselves in Mexican standoffs with burly Eastern European security guards!

Dades

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Although, in fairness, NAMA has been bankrolling the place for the past few years, so it's not as if they're doing well out of this turn of events.

Indeed, and we're bankrolling them.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Looks like there is a basis for the story.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nurses-are-wandering-around-crying-its-utter-chaos-mount-carmel-hospital-consultant-29948051.html

Surgical companies have swooped in on troubled Mount Carmel Hospital to claim back their borrowed medical equipment today - before the liquidators take over the hospital.

I'd wonder precisely who these "surgical companies" are.

Also some slightly loose language from a Mount Carmel consultant.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nurses-are-wandering-around-crying-its-utter-chaos-mount-carmel-hospital-consultant-29948051.html

"Anyone can walk in off the street at the moment. It is like something you would see in Africa. It is absolute and utter chaos."

I know some folk here are commenting on what we might broadly term the snob vs yob aspect of this story. But, I have to say, when I read that comment I felt like this was a Ross O'Carroll Kelly column come to life.

This will be an interesting story to follow, as the closure of this unit has a cultural significance. There's an amount of folk who put a great value on not being born in a public hospital. That's going to come out, somewhere.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Dades wrote: »

Indeed, and we're bankrolling them.

Grand, and isn't the point we'd like to bankroll them as little as possible - which is why they are pulling the plug on the place.

brooke 2

rainbow kirby wrote: »

A friend of my family is now in a bit of a situation - 34 weeks pregnant and due to deliver at MC...

My first thought when I heard about Mount Carmel this morning was for women
like your friend. There are enough stresses involved in pregnancy without having
one such as this added to them. If I were in your friend's position, I would be devastated. Hope all goes well for her and her baby.