SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

SpaceTime

I remember two families who actually got rid of the internet having received astronomical bills from eircom back in the day for dial up.

There's no point in blaming a commercial company behaving like a commercial company though - attempting to maximise its profits while it can.

The problem was always that the market was deeply flawed and that the Government didn't initially seem to comprehend that eircom ≠ Telecom Éireann and that it no longer had any public service remit whatsoever.

Not splitting the access infrastructure (local loop) off as a separate entity was a big mistake from the outset too and would have brought a lot more competition.

What's happening now is that you're finally seeing alternative access infrastructure becoming very relevant in terms of cable television networks and now FTTH from an alternative source.

That's normal for a market as it develops, company A has a barrier to entry company B and C eventually overcome those barriers and access that supernormal profit pool that company A was sloshing around in for years.

bk

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

In what year did this happen? I can remember getting scolded by my mother for leaving the internet logged on. I think this was in 1999 or 2000 or maybe a bit later.

In 2003, I remember my friends had a deal were his internet was free during off-peak hours. I think he was with ESAT and it was between 8 a.m. to 8 p.m..

Yeah it was around 2002.

I agree with SpaceTime that in the end it comes down to competition. Eircom were stupidly handed a monopoly by the government and it held the Irish internet market back for years.

I just want to point out the hard and important work that the folks in IrelanndOFFLine put in and put out that it might have been much worse without them.

chris_ie

I used to see these articles and get a bit excited. Learned not to now, most of the time their idea of rural and my idea of rural are different. I live outside a town (7km) which I would classify as rural but it will likely be a loooong time before we get that sort of connection out here. We have wireless broadband at the minute, which seems to always have issues these days but it is unfortunatley our only option.

Its Only Ray Parlour

chris_ie wrote: »

I used to see these articles and get a bit excited. Learned not to now, most of the time their idea of rural and my idea of rural are different. I live outside a town (7km) which I would classify as rural but it will likely be a loooong time before we get that sort of connection out here. We have wireless broadband at the minute, which seems to always have issues these days but it is unfortunatley our only option.

You're probably thinking of remote or isolated areas.

Here's the definition of rural from Wiki:

The Health Resources and Services Administration of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services defines the word "rural" as encompassing "...all population, housing, and territory not included within an urban area. Whatever is not urban is considered rural

chris_ie

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

You're probably thinking of remote or isolated areas.

Here's the definition of rural from Wiki:

So the area I am in is not urban so it rural? I dont live in the middle of nowhere. There are alot of houses along the road to my house, close enough to eachother. Just no estates. My neighbour has eircom broadband, I think he gets around 1mb, 3 if he is lucky.

Its Only Ray Parlour

chris_ie wrote: »

So the area I am in is not urban so it rural? I dont live in the middle of nowhere. There are alot of houses along the road to my house, close enough to eachother. Just no estates. My neighbour has eircom broadband, I think he gets around 1mb, 3 if he is lucky.

Yeah, it's rural. Anywhere outside of urban areas is rural. You seem to think that rural is remote/isolated areas - which is understandable when you live in Donegal, it's the darkest part of Ireland at night time when looking at the light pollution pictures taken from space.

Anyway, the cost of rolling out fibre differs with each location. Some rural areas can get VDSL with Eircom, while others cannot. It really depends on population density in the area, as Eircom's VDSL product is only offered when your telephone line is within 2km of the cabinet.

chris_ie

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

Yeah, it's rural. Anywhere outside of urban areas is rural. You seem to think that rural is remote/isolated areas - which is understandable when you live in Donegal, it's the darkest part of Ireland at night time when looking at the light pollution pictures taken from space.

Anyway, the cost of rolling out fibre differs with each location. Some rural areas can get VDSL with Eircom, while others cannot. It really depends on population density in the area, as Eircom's VDSL product is only offered when your telephone line is within 2km of the cabinet.

We're just energy conscious up here and turn our lights out at night

No I didn't think rural meant isolated. I was saying I live in a rural area, like I said, plenty houses around here. But there is little chance of any of this coming our way. Its usually the same places just getting upgraded most of the time. There might be a few more places listed but they more than likely already have decent broadband offerings at the minute. They talk about covering rural areas then we see Letterkenny listed.

Its Only Ray Parlour

chris_ie wrote: »

We're just energy conscious up here and turn our lights out at night

No I didn't think rural meant isolated. I was saying I live in a rural area, like I said, plenty houses around here. But there is little chance of any of this coming our way. Its usually the same places just getting upgraded most of the time. There might be a few more places listed but they more than likely already have decent broadband offerings at the minute. They talk about covering rural areas then we see Letterkenny listed.

I apologise, I misread your post.

There was actually never any plan to upgrade rural areas before urban areas. I think that was due to the newspapers spreading misinformation. However, both Eircom and ESB announced a near-100% fibre rollout of Ireland will happen, which is surprising because Eircom's urban customers subsidise rural ones - that's why UPC won't touch rural areas.

The reason why they keep upgrading urban areas first is because there is absolutely no money to be made in rural areas - all the money is to be made in urban areas and these companies are stealing each others customers.

chris_ie

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

I apologise, I misread your post.

There was actually never any plan to upgrade rural areas before urban areas. I think that was due to the newspapers spreading misinformation. However, both Eircom and ESB announced a near-100% fibre rollout of Ireland will happen, which is surprising because Eircom's urban customers subsidise rural ones - that's why UPC won't touch rural areas.

The reason why they keep upgrading urban areas first is because there is absolutely no money to be made in rural areas - all the money is to be made in urban areas and these companies are stealing each others customers.

No problem. Yeah I get the money aspect of it. My initial point was just that I used to see stories of rural areas getting good speeds only to discover it was mostly urban as you say. Just a pain. I'm using fixed wireless at the moment, which would be fine only for the speed drops and near constant packet loss. A bit more competition for fixed wireless would be good..

bealtine

bk wrote: »

The one thing we need to make sure, is that both physical networks are opened up to virtual operators (like Sky, BT, Magnet, Digiweb, etc.) in a fair and transparent manner. And yes that includes the ESB/Vodafones new FTTH network and UPC's cable.

And there you have the biggest problem facing us as a country this decade

Gonzo

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

It really depends on population density in the area, as Eircom's VDSL product is only offered when your telephone line is within 2km of the cabinet.

VDSL can work up to 2km away but only if the lines within those 2km are all connected back to the cabinet. This certainly is not the case where I live, The nearest cabinet to me is 2km away and none of the houses after 200 meters from the cabinet can receive anything other than bog standard ADSL as the cabinet I am on about only serves the cluster of houses in the housing estate. There are probably 100s if not 1000s of homes across the country who are within 2km of a cabinet and can't get fibre.

murphaph

Eircom are working on that as well. Direct fed lines are being moved over to cabinets but this is very labour intensive so takes time.

SpaceTime

The interesting point will arrive where eircom can argue that it's unfair to impose USO (Universal Service Obligations) on it as UPC and ESB take a significant % of the market.

7upfree

SpaceTime wrote: »

The interesting point will arrive where eircom can argue that it's unfair to impose USO (Universal Service Obligations) on it as UPC and ESB take a significant % of the market.

Stems from Public Ownership. Big difference.

ED E

For the next ling while they'll have to hold onto being the USO for.where it counts, the middle of nowhere.

SpaceTime

7upfree wrote: »

Stems from Public Ownership. Big difference.

It stems from having an access monopoly that distorted the market actually.

The public funding element was paid back when the state got a big pile of money when they sold it off.

I could see USO being extended to other operators as the market becomes more balanced.

In the mobile sector for example Vodafone and O2 have SMP (significant market power) designation which obliged them to open their network for wholesale access.

cunnijo

As this project is now approved by the EU is there any information as to when the 50 areas listed will start to benefit from the roll out proper?

Varik

From looking at the map rural means not Dublin, it's other cities and large towns.

georgewickstaff

Wonder what they mean by Drogheda.

Those with fibre already getting the option for even faster broadband. I will be astonished if this hits smaller towns and villages within 10km of Drogheda.

:rolleyes:

SpaceTime

It's completely different to copper based technologies, particularly ADSL and VDSL (efibre) because the signal doesn't really degrade over even medium distances. Eircom is using technologies that require you to be within ideally less than 1000m from the node. Fibre services like this don't care if you're 100m or 10km from the node. There's almost no signal loss.

It's actually ideal technology for a low density place like Ireland once the delivery and installation costs make sense.

The big thing that's changing is that the cost of fibre aggregation nodes and splitters, switches and all that stuff is falling rapidly as more of it is deployed around the world.

So you might be pleasantly surprised.

Also ESB lines go cross country and serve everywhere almost as the crow flies most of the time. Eircom mostly follows roads.

red_bairn

SpaceTime wrote:

The big thing that's changing is that the cost of fibre aggregation nodes and splitters, switches and all that stuff is falling rapidly as more of it is deployed around the world.

Does that mean they would consider rural areas after covering those of us in the urban areas (esp in the first 50)?

Ranjo

I've finally been given the nod that I can get fibre BB with Vodafone. Just off the phone to them and I can only get speeds up to 7Mb. Currently I'm on 4 odd (so they say, I haven't checked for a while)

I'm not a massive user, but is it worth it? I would have to pay an extra 7 euro a month, given the deal I'm on now.

It is a large enough increase, but as it's not in the teens at least, I'm thinking of just leaving it.

Johnboy1951

Ranjo wrote: »

I've finally been given the nod that I can get fibre BB with Vodafone. Just off the phone to them and I can only get speeds up to 7Mb. Currently I'm on 4 odd (so they say, I haven't checked for a while)

I'm not a massive user, but is it worth it? I would have to pay an extra 7 euro a month, given the deal I'm on now.

It is a large enough increase, but as it's not in the teens at least, I'm thinking of just leaving it.

Unless you have a specific need at this time I see no reason to pay an extra €7 per month.

SpaceTime

red_bairn wrote: »

Does that mean they would consider rural areas after covering those of us in the urban areas (esp in the first 50)?

It'll depend on how much it costs to lay the wires. There's no technical barriers unlike what phone companies use today.

I could see ESB moving to installing fibre with all new hookups in future years though.

Ranjo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Unless you have a specific need at this time I see no reason to pay an extra €7 per month.

The specific need, if one person is watching Netflix and I need to do a call for work I have to get Netflix turned off. I don't expect an "advertised" increase of 4 to 7Mb is going to alleviate this issues.

I would also like the option to watch Netflix in HD, or at least better than the "medium" level I watch it now.

None of these are really killing me now. I manage, but ultimately, doesn't sound worth it.

Mayo Yid

Ranjo wrote: »

I've finally been given the nod that I can get fibre BB with Vodafone. Just off the phone to them and I can only get speeds up to 7Mb. Currently I'm on 4 odd (so they say, I haven't checked for a while)

I'm not a massive user, but is it worth it? I would have to pay an extra 7 euro a month, given the deal I'm on now.

It is a large enough increase, but as it's not in the teens at least, I'm thinking of just leaving it.

Wrong thread man, this one is all about an esb and Vodafone joint venture to bring fibre to the home

bloodyhawk

Can someone link me the rollout map you guys are talking about?

ukoda

SpaceTime wrote: »

I could see ESB moving to installing fibre with all new hookups in future years though.

They actually already do this, for the last few years, every new electricity connection they've laid has had fibre laid along side it

murphaph

ukoda wrote: »

They actually already do this, for the last few years, every new electricity connection they've laid has had fibre laid along side it

All the way to the meter box?

Sterling Archer

FTTC - Eircom & VF (Owned by Eircom)
Fibre cable to the cabinet, copper to the home
Works off Eircom cabinets and is affected by distance from the cab
FTTH - Eircom & VF (Owned by Eircom) (Trialled on staff for both companies)
Entirely based on Existing Eircom infrastructure

FTTB - VF (Owned by ESB)
Entirely based on running fibre cable alongside Esb power lines