The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2014

Loughc

People tend to forget that Clare had excellent U-21 teams year after year for along time now and they are beginning to see the fruition of those squads.

I think it's Tipp time to slip back into the Wilderness to re-build, every county goes through it, even Cork and Kilkenny. The key is now on the young lads to improve their game and we'll see from there.

But I think this will be a repeat of last year for us and I reckon we will have at least 3 or 4 more years like it.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont agree lost Sheep tbh. Take Galway for example against Kilkenny in 2012. Were hammered by 25 points in the league but blew them out of the water in the Leinster final. Take the fact that the two relegation finalists contested the All Ireland final last year.

What im trying to say is that ok while you play against the very best teams i also think that its not an accurate gauge as to how the championship will pan out. As for the silverware argument, id swap every single league trophy that Tipperary have for even half the amount of All Ireland's Kilkenny has won the last decade and a half

Look i understand the frustration with the lack of work-rate today don't get me wrong. I was wincing in the stand for much of it. But if for example we perform well in the championship then who in all honesty will give a shíte about the league? Give me 1 all ireland over ten leagues any day.

I think also people need to be patient with Eamon a bit more. He is essentially firefighting the absolute shambles that he inherited where an All Ireland winning team was reduced to their top scorer following a wing back around the field.

League success virtually always implies a good run in Munster/All Ireland.
Last year is an exception to the rule and was against the norm of the past.

Kilkenny since 2002 have won the league 7 times, they've reached the league final another 2 times. In that times 5 of those 7 years they won the All Ireland.
While that's nice saying you'd swap all the leagues for all Ireland championships. would you honestly?
The league is a barometer in most years of championship success. As the league is completed before Munster championship starts its the start of the momentum and where you begin to set your mindset for the year in competitive games. Some teams can do poor in the league and somehow bounce back in championship and do well but I don't think we can at all. We are a confidence team and as such the league is vital as its the place where we work out the kinks, build the confidence, ensure the work rate is enough.
I wouldn't want 1 championship over 10 leagues. Leagues promote consistency. You can get to and win an all Ireland with a serious amount of luck not the case in the league

Alpha Dog 1

Just rewatched the game again. The difference in speed and first touch between the two teams was unbelievable.
Clare seem to be able to produce young players with great Speed, our young hurlers tend to be on the hefty side. Unfortunately Speed is crucial and we are severely lacking there.

Premier View

Great post Tipp Gunner. I will wait and see. someone said wait for the limerick match, at the risk of repeating myself, I think everyone was saying that last year too.
Our record in the last six competitive matches reads, won, one (waterford) lost 5. thats league and championship, and is pretty poor. O'Shea is a spin doctor, and will shortly have to, admit that he is out of his depth at this level.

digzy

Premier View wrote: »

Great post Tipp Gunner. I will wait and see. someone said wait for the limerick match, at the risk of repeating myself, I think everyone was saying that last year too.
Our record in the last six competitive matches reads, won, one (waterford) lost 5. thats league and championship, and is pretty poor. O'Shea is a spin doctor, and will shortly have to, admit that he is out of his depth at this level.

It's ironic all the criticism of Declan Ryan a few years ago, yet the players were almost blameless.

Wonder who's to blame now? After they got the manager it was widely acknowledged they wanted.

Premier View

Agreed. I lead the calls for his appointment. That was based on his role in sheedy's team. I think he is trying every possible team selection and player formula but nothings working. My worry is he is not transferring any energy to the team. It remains lethargic and has done for the last three years. I was at the Clare match and he stands with his arms folded, he seems confused and does not inspire anybody. the tactics are non-existant, there is no apparent style of pay. Clare could have scored eight goals, meaning we were worse at the back than last week. surely he must have some idea of a settled team by this stage. Paddy Murphy seems to get a lot of game time, why not give Denis or Ronan Maher a longer run. Picking payers on ability alone is not the answer, they have to have courage and a massive will to win. Our current set of payers are very talented, but lack the heart for the battle.

Red Crow

digzy wrote: »

It's ironic all the criticism of Declan Ryan a few years ago, yet the players were almost blameless.

Wonder who's to blame now? After they got the manager it was widely acknowledged they wanted.

Yeah I think looking back now Declan Ryan was given a bit of a hard time. I think people are still thinking about the performances in 2009 and 2010 and up to Waterford in 2011. I think this team is quite a bit behind that and the early promise of players like Paudie Maher, Noel McGrath and Brendan Maher lead the expectations for this time into overdrive.

Speaking of which Brendan Maher seems a bit off form this year.

Red Crow

Red Crow wrote: »

Yeah I think looking back now Declan Ryan was given a bit of a hard time. I think people are still thinking about the performances in 2009 and 2010 and up to Waterford in 2011. I think this team is quite a bit behind that and the early promise of players like Paudie Maher, Noel McGrath and Brendan Maher lead the expectations for this time into overdrive.

Speaking of which Brendan Maher seems a bit off form this year.

Ok i do agree that the players may have let Decky and Tommy down to a certain degree but to be fair i think the Kilkenny semi final in 2012 was a major red flag in terms of what you expect from a manager tactics-wise. It wasn't just the Lar sideshow that day, you had 6 out the field and no inside forward as another example. I can remember a number of supporters near me yelling at the forwards to 'get in the f**kin area' and you also had two of our forwards taken out of the game also. Pa Bourke was having a decent season that year and due to the sideshow that took place that day i cant help feeling it could have shot his confidence dead somewhat

Eamon is under pressure ill admit and he hasn't set the world alight so far. I am tempted to hold off on judgement until the Championship for now. Cant help feeling we are holding off that little bit. I admit i was over the moon when i heard he was taking the job because there was alot of positive stories about him. One of the more experienced players told me he was the only man for the job. He is under a bit of pressure to deliver now though but i suppose the other thing to remember is that he is without Lar and a few of the upcoming young players who are playing u21 football this year. Riordan is one lad that could prove a huge asset. He has fantastic presence on the field but i must remember he is still young.

digzy

digzy wrote: »

It's ironic all the criticism of Declan Ryan a few years ago, yet the players were almost blameless.

Wonder who's to blame now? After they got the manager it was widely acknowledged they wanted.

With the benefit of hindsight the players werent without blame but I suppose the fact that most of them performed so well in winning the All ireland that it almost absolved them of criticism. I for one will admit to being in denial as to how players that contributed so much in 2010 fell so far from grace so soon but its become a cycle with us. Cant help feeling had Sheedy stayed on for 2011 though he would have identified who was dropping standards so on that basis its probably harsh on Ryan and co given that their first year working with the players was on the back of an All Ireland win.

In general though i feel as a county we fail to evolve and tend to keep faith with whats working. Even under Nicky in 2001 we didnt really build on that success in 2002. Others like Waterford were waiting in the long grass and yet we failed to anticipate their rise. I can remember a senior panellist from that era telling me back around then that some of the players thought Waterford were going to be a cakewalk in the Munster final that year and that attitude and arrogance seems to fester in the aftermath of an All Ireland success. Its become a vicious cycle

tippspur

Premier View wrote: »

Agreed. I lead the calls for his appointment. That was based on his role in sheedy's team. I think he is trying every possible team selection and player formula but nothings working. My worry is he is not transferring any energy to the team. It remains lethargic and has done for the last three years. I was at the Clare match and he stands with his arms folded, he seems confused and does not inspire anybody. the tactics are non-existant, there is no apparent style of pay. Clare could have scored eight goals, meaning we were worse at the back than last week. surely he must have some idea of a settled team by this stage. Paddy Murphy seems to get a lot of game time, why not give Denis or Ronan Maher a longer run. Picking payers on ability alone is not the answer, they have to have courage and a massive will to win. Our current set of payers are very talented, but lack the heart for the battle.

As bad as things went for us last year at least our defence put up a good showing in the games we lost,even against KK the defence was the best part of the team,so far this year we've conceded a massive amount of goals and defence is looking very shaky.

igorbiscan

There seems to be a lot a chopping and changing at the moment.No paudie maher ,o mahoney,bonnar maher etc starting on Sunday. I think there holding a little back at the mo (I hope so anyways) but they should start to think about a more settled side for the next few games before confidence starts to really drop and we're sitting ducks going into the Limerick game. I'm reserving judgement until the championship however Sunday didn't fill me with massive confidence.

ReacherCreature

tippspur wrote: »

As bad as things went for us last year at least our defence put up a good showing in the games we lost,even against KK the defence was the best part of the team,so far this year we've conceded a massive amount of goals and defence is looking very shaky.

Did a little research. Nine goals conceded in three games of the League: one to Waterford, five to Kilkenny, four to Clare. We're level with Fingal for goals conceded who are in the second last tier of Irish hurling. That's insane.

ReacherCreature

Premier View wrote: »

. O'Shea is a spin doctor, and will shortly have to, admit that he is out of his depth at this level.

Each to their own but I like to see a manager's decent body of work, say three seasons' duration before casting them out. At the moment it's a season and a quarter. It'd be rash to turf him out now. It could come good or mightn't. I'd hate to go through a period of instability with new managers coming and going quickly.

Premier View

of course your right. I am just a bit concerned about their form, Clare won at their ease, and looked to have a few gears left.I know its just the league, but a lot of players are not producing, the captain is a major let down.

Spirit of 67

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah Liam is on the senior and u21 hurling panel.

Colman kennedy is a real loss as is Evan Comerford

Both Kennedy and McGrath are named as subs for tonight , McGrath is injured though ! Comerford was dropped from the Under 21s last year , seemly he wanted to concentrate on Soccer . Gearoid Slattery is a more than capable replacement .
Strangely I seen somewhere that Comerford has transfered to Kilsheelan/K who David Power is involved with , does anyone know anything about this ?

Red Crow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok i do agree that the players may have let Decky and Tommy down to a certain degree but to be fair i think the Kilkenny semi final in 2012 was a major red flag in terms of what you expect from a manager tactics-wise. It wasn't just the Lar sideshow that day, you had 6 out the field and no inside forward as another example. I can remember a number of supporters near me yelling at the forwards to 'get in the f**kin area' and you also had two of our forwards taken out of the game also. Pa Bourke was having a decent season that year and due to the sideshow that took place that day i cant help feeling it could have shot his confidence dead somewhat

Eamon is under pressure ill admit and he hasn't set the world alight so far. I am tempted to hold off on judgement until the Championship for now. Cant help feeling we are holding off that little bit. I admit i was over the moon when i heard he was taking the job because there was alot of positive stories about him. One of the more experienced players told me he was the only man for the job. He is under a bit of pressure to deliver now though but i suppose the other thing to remember is that he is without Lar and a few of the upcoming young players who are playing u21 football this year. Riordan is one lad that could prove a huge asset. He has fantastic presence on the field but i must remember he is still young.

Oh I agree with you. I think there was a lot of noise from the camp about the dislike of Tommy Dunne's style and Declan Ryan's tactics. But it looked like the players just gave up in that KK match.

I think we'll need to start getting some momentum with this team otherwise we could be facing another poor year. Right now I'm not confident but the manager should be given a chance to develop this team. There is a bit of a conspiracy theory going on that EOS is holding back tactics for the Championship. I'm not so sure about that. Clare's speed and use of space was far superior to ours yet we still kept the extra man in the middle to match them. You're not going to beat Clare that way IMO.

Spirit of 67

H-T : Waterford 1-0 Tipp 0-9 . Kerry 2-4 Cork 0-7 . Michael Quinlivan off with a back injury , replaced by Liam McGrath .

Spirit of 67

F-T : Waterford 2-3 Tipp 0-19 . Kerry 2-8 Cork 0-18 .

digzy

Red Crow wrote: »

Oh I agree with you. I think there was a lot of noise from the camp about the dislike of Tommy Dunne's style and Declan Ryan's tactics. But it looked like the players just gave up in that KK match.

I think we'll need to start getting some momentum with this team otherwise we could be facing another poor year. Right now I'm not confident but the manager should be given a chance to develop this team. There is a bit of a conspiracy theory going on that EOS is holding back tactics for the Championship. I'm not so sure about that. Clare's speed and use of space was far superior to ours yet we still kept the extra man in the middle to match them. You're not going to beat Clare that way IMO.

It's always gas when you hear about a team "holding something back". It's fair to say that's not the case with our lads. The nervousness about them, poor form of certain players etc..I felt kk weren't in the right place for us mentally in the last league game. Cody got them in at h-t, gave them a bollocking and made changes and they blew us off the park. They werent holding back in the second half!

We're in trouble- though I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I didn't put it correctly in my last post, but what I was trying to say is that we're running out of managers to blame. Time to look at the players I'm afraid.

digzy

digzy wrote: »

It's always gas when you hear about a team "holding something back". It's fair to say that's not the case with our lads. The nervousness about them, poor form of certain players etc..I felt kk weren't in the right place for us mentally in the last league game. Cody got them in at h-t, gave them a bollocking and made changes and they blew us off the park. They werent holding back in the second half!

We're in trouble- though I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I didn't put it correctly in my last post, but what I was trying to say is that we're running out of managers to blame. Time to look at the players I'm afraid.

After last years showing i would have thought we'd never see some of them in a Tipp shirt again tbh. The display in Limerick was pathetic. At least there was some fight against Kilkenny although our finishing was piss poor that day. Really hard to know how good or bad we are at this point in time. Id like to think we are holding back at least.

Spirit of 67

Scorers for Tipperary: G Henry 0-4, S Flynn 0-3 (2fs), J Keane, L McGrath, M Quinlivan 0-2 each, B Maher, S O’Brien, J McGrath, I Fahey, K Fahey, L Casey 0-1 each.

TIPPERARY: G Slattery; N O’Sullivan, J Feehan, C O’Sullivan; R Mulcahy, S Kennedy, B Maher; S O’Brien, C O’Riordan; J McGrath, I Fahey, G Henry; J Keane, M Quinlivan, S Flynn.

Subs: K Fahey for Mulcahy (20), L McGrath for Quinlivan (21), L Casey for O’Brien (38), J Lonergan for Keane (47), A Maguire for O’Sullivan (52), P Shanahan for Flynn (57).

Spirit of 67

Spirit of 67 wrote: »

Scorers for Tipperary: G Henry 0-4, S Flynn 0-3 (2fs), J Keane, L McGrath, M Quinlivan 0-2 each, B Maher, S O’Brien, J McGrath, I Fahey, K Fahey, L Casey 0-1 each.

TIPPERARY: G Slattery; N O’Sullivan, J Feehan, C O’Sullivan; R Mulcahy, S Kennedy, B Maher; S O’Brien, C O’Riordan; J McGrath, I Fahey, G Henry; J Keane, M Quinlivan, S Flynn.

Subs: K Fahey for Mulcahy (20), L McGrath for Quinlivan (21), L Casey for O’Brien (38), J Lonergan for Keane (47), A Maguire for O’Sullivan (52), P Shanahan for Flynn (57).

Impressive from Henry kicking four points from play. He'd have been one of the players at minor that probably didn't stand out as good as the rest. Good spread of scorers there.

evolving tipperary

Tipperary (SH v Galway) – Darren Gleeson; Cathal Barrett, Paddy Stapleton, Michael Cahill; Shane McGrath, Conor O’Mahony, Padraic Maher; Brendan Maher (Captain), James Woodlock; Conor Kenny, John O’Dwyer, Patrick Maher; Noel McGrath, Seamus Callanan, Michael Heffernan​

tippspur

Interesting to see how Conor kenny and Heffernan get on in the forwards,can't be any worse than Paddy Murphy anyway.

Red Crow

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Tipperary (SH v Galway) – Darren Gleeson; Cathal Barrett, Paddy Stapleton, Michael Cahill; Shane McGrath, Conor O’Mahony, Padraic Maher; Brendan Maher (Captain), James Woodlock; Conor Kenny, John O’Dwyer, Patrick Maher; Noel McGrath, Seamus Callanan, Michael Heffernan​

Paddy Stapleton had a great game at FB last year against KK so hopefully he does well there but his height is obviously an issue. Will be interesting to see how Kenny and Heffernan do

Comordha

All eyes on Conor Kenny for this one I feel. The next Seamus Harnedy one hopes.

Comordha

Comordha wrote: »

All eyes on Conor Kenny for this one I feel. The next Seamus Harnedy one hopes.

I had my doubts about Kenny's application last year. He couldn't make the u21 team then and with good reason. His work rate was dire at best and it isnt as if those type of forwards are in shortage.
One year later however and there seems to be be more effort and maturity.Offered more in his cameo from the bench last week then alot of the forwards offered in the whole 70.

Paddy Murphy is almost like a hurling version of Yaya Sanogo. Battles well but lacks technique.

Red Crow

Red Crow wrote: »

Paddy Stapleton had a great game at FB last year against KK so hopefully he does well there but his height is obviously an issue. Will be interesting to see how Kenny and Heffernan do

Couldn't blame Saint on Sunday. Declan Fanning is spot on, the half backs and midfield left him totally exposed. Begs the question as to why young Tomas Hamill pushed so far up the pitch. Cant imagine he'd have the confidence to do that at his tender age considering his obvious lack of pace. He must have been told to do it along with the rest of the HB line and the midfield.
It was as if O'Shea thought we were good enough to go score for score with them ala Cork in the first match last year

ReacherCreature

Gleeson's fourth straight start. Certified starter for when the League rolls around. Getting a rush of experience now but the blowback is that we don't know what our other 'keepers are like under fire.

Judging on starts handed out, you'd have to think O' Shea has settled on five-sixths of the back six? I'm not sure if Stapleton will move inside to 3 or will Barrett hold down 2. Looks like McGrath-O' Mahony-Maher and Cahill at right cornerback anyway.

Seems too that Woodlock and Maher are our midfielders. We lack pure midfielders (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'm not sure if Noel McGrath dropping back there on a full time basis is the key.

The half forward line is interesting. O' Dwyer comes out to the 40 and Bonner is back. I'm not sure what Kenny offers. The former two should win some ball.

Don't know if Heffernan will produce; while the rest of the team (bar Kenny and possibly Barrett?) are likely to start so it seems a waste starting Heffernan if he won't be a feature in the Championship. But O' Shea's the manager and I'm here pretending to be a manger Noel is Noel and Seamie is Seamie. I hope they bring their best because Galway need to be bet and they're as flat as we are. I think we'll edge it.

ReacherCreature

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Gleeson's fourth straight start. Certified starter for when the League rolls around. Getting a rush of experience now but the blowback is that we don't know what our other 'keepers are like under fire.

Judging on starts handed out, you'd have to think O' Shea has settled on five-sixths of the back six? I'm not sure if Stapleton will move inside to 3 or will Barrett hold down 2. Looks like McGrath-O' Mahony-Maher and Cahill at right cornerback anyway.

Seems too that Woodlock and Maher are our midfielders. We lack pure midfielders (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'm not sure if Noel McGrath dropping back there on a full time basis is the key.

The half forward line is interesting. O' Dwyer comes out to the 40 and Bonner is back. I'm not sure what Kenny offers. The former two should win some ball.

Don't know if Heffernan will produce; while the rest of the team (bar Kenny and possibly Barrett?) are likely to start so it seems a waste starting Heffernan if he won't be a feature in the Championship. But O' Shea's the manager and I'm here pretending to be a manger Noel is Noel and Seamie is Seamie. I hope they bring their best because Galway need to be bet and they're as flat as we are. I think we'll edge it.

Great post. On the goalkeeper issue though i would say that perhaps owing to the fact that our league performance has been dire we haven't had the luxury of trying out Egan or Logue. We probably need the little bit of experience Darren has at the moment. That said id be comfortable in Egan's shot stopping ability for this game too. GK's haven't been our issue really.