Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

ProudDUB

Let's not forget that we won 2 All Ireland's and back to back league titles, with the frees and 45's being taken by a committee of Berno, Cluxton for the most part, backed up by Connolly and Mannion. It's not like we'll be completely with out a decent free taker if Rock loses his starting jersey. If they all know they could be called upon and are doing the necessary prep work in training ( it was pretty obvious they hadn't been, during their cameos on the frees last year) we'll be ok.

gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Interesting after the competition between Dean Rock and Cormac Costello, that neither are starting!

Who is official free taker after them?
I am not sure I am happy with the ad hoc nature of it.
Surely one of them should start it is what they practice.

ProudDUB

Last year, I was pretty unhappy with the ad hoc nature of it too. When Deano was taken off in the AI final and semi's, it was painfully obvious how rusty both Berno and Cluxton were on the frees and 45's. And when Dermo was on them, it was a case of cross your fingers, hide behind the sofa and pray.

With Rock being so brilliantly reliable in the league and the Leinster champo, it was possible that the need for a back up for him, was put on the back burner. I very much doubt if Jim Gavin will be caught napping again. He'll have a plan for the frees. We just have to be patient and keep the faith. He's not a man to make the same mistake twice.

Bonniedog

I'm sure he does have a plan! Not a man who fails to learn from past experience.

I honestly think that either DR or CC had done enough to earn a starting spot for tomorrow which will be as intense a match as they will have until probably late August and very likely the same opposition.

No way Dublin can or will carry someone just to kick frees. Other counties do and while it might get them so far they are invariably exposed when the going gets hot. I would argue that Cillian O'Connor is such a player.

Some of our own were questioning Rock's value both as a contributor from play and a pressure kicker. I reckon he has answered that so far and deserves another shot. I have no doubt he will get game time tomorrow as probably will Costello.

Must be huge pressure on them all, but they haven't left us down yet!

robbiezero

Bonniedog wrote: »

I'm sure he does have a plan! Not a man who fails to learn from past experience.

I honestly think that either DR or CC had done enough to earn a starting spot for tomorrow which will be as intense a match as they will have until probably late August and very likely the same opposition.

No way Dublin can or will carry someone just to kick frees. Other counties do and while it might get them so far they are invariably exposed when the going gets hot. I would argue that Cillian O'Connor is such a player.

Some of our own were questioning Rock's value both as a contributor from play and a pressure kicker. I reckon he has answered that so far and deserves another shot. I have no doubt he will get game time tomorrow as probably will Costello.

Must be huge pressure on them all, but they haven't left us down yet!

Completely disagree with this. Frees aside, he is one of Mayo's best forwards and is certainly not a free-taking passenger on the team.
There is no way Mayo have 6 better forwards than him or if they have I certainly haven't seen them.

Bonniedog

Perhaps a bit harsh and based mainly on his second half in 2013. Easy for me to say as well, from the ditch.

ProudDUB

This 'carrying a player for his free taking ability' debate, I think it varies from county to county. Kerry are able to carry Bryan Sheehan, as they have Gooch and O'Donoghue up front, to keep the the score board ticking over from play. They usually have Donaghy in the thick of things. This year, they have added Darren O'Sullivan to their arsenal, as he seems to have recovered his 2011 form, where he was a Footballer of the Year nominee.

Other than O'Connor, Mayo have....who exactly, up front? Aidan O'Shea is certainly no world beater in the forward line. Cillian O'Connor could probably have three broken legs, the bubonic plague and a bad dose of the $hits, and his starting jersey is still 1000% secure. Why? Because Mayo have no one else remotely as good as him, even though his contributions from open play are no where near as good as those that truly merit the title of marquee forward. (Sorry, Mayo peeps, am not looking to cause a row, or get into any big debate about that.)

But Dublin do have a lot more options up front. We have forwards who are more of a goal threat, who can take their man on, win their own ball, create space, score goals and create chance for others. Do you play more of them, lower your frees scored ratio at 70%, in the hopes that they'll produce goal chances? Or do you bench one of them, in exchange for having your frees ratio at 90%? It is a perfectly valid question to ask. Luckily for us, we have the forwards that give us the ability to ask that question & create the resultant head ache for Jim Gavin. Mayo don't.

So overall you can't really compare our situation to that of Mayo's, or any other county really. No two counties are the same, so you can't really compare what one county does and then say that it is the standard that everyone else should abide by.

DDC1990

robbiezero wrote:

There is no way Mayo have 6 better forwards than him or if they have I certainly haven't seen them.

Mayo don't have 1 forward better than him IMO AOS included.

seligehgit

DDC1990 wrote: »

Mayo don't have 1 forward better than him IMO AOS included.

At times I don't get the lack of love for Cillian O Connor never mind poor Aidan O Shea,he is a quality freetaker off the ground or by hand,Bryan Sheehan and Michael Murphy are two players who are superior at the long distance free taking on the ground.Cillian has great vision,is a very good footpasser and is able to win his own ball.His main limitation is his lack of pace although he does need to score more heavily from play.Unfortunately he has been ravaged by injuries in recent years and this has greatly hindered the health of his game.

His younger brother Diarmuid is more than likely going to be our most important forward come championship.

Anyhow this Mayo peep is going to bolt for the door before he gets lynched >>>>>:pac:

PressRun

Cillian O'Connor doesn't get his dues often enough, imo. It's certainly not just about the frees, he has great vision and passing, like you said, and he also provides great leadership on the team. He hasn't been operating at full tilt in recent times due to injury and from what I've heard, we're lucky to have had him at all last year because of that injury. If I'm honest, I fear for his long term future in the game, but I hope we get a few more years from him.

Diarmuid is one of the most exciting talents in Mayo football in recent years. Potentially one of the best forwards we've had.

Also, to be fair, I don't think AOS is a full forward, but it was a worthwhile experiment that worked well more than once. He has an eye for goal and the fact that there was often more than one man on him at times speaks to his threat in that position. I still think he's more effective and looks more comfortable at midfield, but I think it's a bit unfair to dismiss everything he's done in the forward role.

DoctaDee

I remember at the end of the replay last year AOS and DC swapping jerseys and AOS put the Dub jersey on as he left the field, just thought to myself yup Aido I'd take ya in a heartbeat. Dunno whether I'm in the minority but I'd take him all day everyday over COC.

And in other transfer news was great to see Pat Burke help the banner to the div3 title yesterday. That's back to back for Clare now afaik

Stoner

Yes DOC looks the real deal. He's hardy too. I do think he's going to get some rough treatment soon enough though, he has a steak in him similar to the one you've pointed out that our Cooper has and I agreed with you on it. All imo of course.

Andy Moran is handy on his day and makes an impact. The three O'Seas should start too. Reegan (spelling) was good on the three occasions I saw him.
TBH I think Mayo are in a better shape this year than last .
I think they could take dublin and the two O'connors will win frees against that kerry defence as I think kerry only have one truly robust half back and if AOS is in the forwards he'll be taken up there.
If Mayo win the AI this year the two O'Connors will get less change from refs next year imo, but those lads will win frees all day, and as Down should us in the 1990s you can win championships off that, particularly if you haven't one one before or are overdue one.

BonnieSituation

Has anything ever come f that notion of us having a new shirt for the Championship. Or even wearing something different today?

STB.

4 in a row.... only one other team have done it and that was nearly 50 years ago

Justin10

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Has anything ever come f that notion of us having a new shirt for the Championship. Or even wearing something different today?

New Jersey is out next month

BonnieSituation

Well that was satisfying. Beating that shower gives me energy.

Dyr

Rochey18 wrote: »

New Jersey is out next month

Came out in '88 I thought

corny

Great achievement winning 4 League titles in a row.

We didn't play too well mind you. Gave away a lot of possession and the movement in the forwards (bar KK) was pretty average throughout. We are relentless though and Kerry getting involved in an attritional game was never going to be good for them.

Fenton and Kilkenny were brilliant.

I was surprised at how easily Cian O' Sullivan handled Donaghy. When they were fighting for position with the ball in the air he was physically stronger than Donaghy. I read a few comments in the match thread saying the attention was illegal, it absolutely wasn't.

Thats what you're up against with Dublin. ****ers like O' Sullivan can out pace ye, out muscle ye and can play football. Dublin have plenty of similar types too.

For Kerry? They tackled very well and scored some classy points. I wouldn't take them lightly if the semi final works out but they badly need legs around the park.

ThunbergsAreGo

Connolly was desperate today. He is a fine footballer but often over does things and holds onto it too long.

Thought we actually played some better some stuff when he went off. Had them at arms length most of the game

Bonniedog

Mayo won four in a row as well in the 30s I think.



They are a phenomenal team. No doubt about it.

Stoner

naughtb4 wrote:

Connolly was desperate today. He is a fine footballer but often over does things and holds onto it too long.

He was, head on him coming off too.

It was good to take him off, do him good. Kilkenny was very good today. Fenton really makes a huge difference to this team. His ability to contest kickouts allows us to win more of the oppositions ball but it also has contributed to easing the pressure on Cluxton as it's not that big of a deal if they push up on him.

Brogan was very good too. He is a true big game player. From how he handled himself in 2010 and Donegal in 2011 to the sort of threat he was today. Talk all you want about inspiration and creativity etc. His first three points when the game was close were very good scores never mind his involvement in creating goal opportunities, he took his man on and beat him. He's no spring chicken himself, he's in this 30s too and he has had a few good days out against some of these Kerry lads now over the years he's seen their best days too and did well.

D O'Sullivan still looks dangerous for Kerry. As does Donaghy, when Maher comes back it will free him up to move in. I don't think he has the legs for us in the middle at championship pace but I still think he's a savage forward.
I'll always consider him a dirty so and so but I like him. He was involved in two blatant body checks today and i heard he hopped Bastics head into the ground at one stage all before he hopped the ball off the ground, he's great to watch, just not watch when he's against you. I would say he'd play regularly for this Dublin team.
Fennels shining moment for us was winning the throw in from him cleanly in 2011, few have done it since.

O'Donoghue will make a difference for them too, he'll take some watching.
I would have liked to see O'Gara on for a spell today I think he would have done well.
I still think Kerry only have one top class half back and that is where to get at them. Their subs there today made little difference while ours picked up scores off them. They went out today with a certain mindset and tried to substitute for some of their limitations , ultimately it was their undoing imo.

I know I'm going against the grain here. But I genuinely think Gooch is a bit of a luxury player. He a sort of player that made a very good kerry team fantastic, but I'm not sure if he's a player that would make an average kerry team very good or even dangerous, JOD and Donaghy could make an average team dangerous on their own.

The above should get a reaction anyway.

Was it Enright who gave away the penno? I'm away at the moment so living off watching it in a pub , feeds and updates from the fecker who pretended to be me in my seat today.

If it was he was on a yellow and it looked like he pulled him down. If it was him he's a lucky man again.
Black on a yellow is a red.

Finally on that , the back on the cavan midfielder was it Buchanan today looked harsh, that the second one recently where the black card is bring used as soft red card, Red Lite.

Pierce_1991

Anyone else find it bizarre that Rock knocked the penalty over the bar? I know people will say it put is 3 up against 14 men with 10 minutes to play but for me you should be going for goal there. Kerry scored a free from 40 meters within a minute or two of that. Shouldn't have penalties cancelled out by 40 meter frees.

Bonniedog

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

Anyone else find it bizarre that Rock knocked the penalty over the bar? I know people will say it put is 3 up against 14 men with 10 minutes to play but for me you should be going for goal there. Kerry scored a free from 40 meters within a minute or two of that. Shouldn't have penalties cancelled out by 40 meter frees.

Bizarre! I had them backed to score one goal or more. It was near defibrillator territory for Bonniedog I can tell you!

Someone told me he was signalled to take a point. I don't believe that. Since they moved the spot in, it is almost impossible to miss a penalty in gaelic football (even for an Isles man

Unless there is some psychological warfare being waged by JG that none of us are privy to :eek:

corny

Stoner wrote: »

Was it Enright who gave away the penno? I'm away at the moment so living off watching it in a pub , feeds and updates from the fecker who pretended to be me in my seat today.

If it was he was on a yellow and it looked like he pulled him down. If it was him he's a lucky man again.
Black on a yellow is a red.

The ref just forgot his black card today.:D At least 3 Dublin players were pulled to the ground.

I was amazed no card was produced for the penalty. It was whats called a 'smothering tackle' in rugby. Nicely executed but wrong game.

Thats not even mentioning the 3rd man tackles and taking out of runners that was routine by the end.

corny

In Rocks interview with RTE he kind of admitted he was going for goal. Something along the lines of i just thought i'd hit high and hard and hope for the best.

Stoner

Pierce_1991 wrote:

Anyone else find it bizarre that Rock knocked the penalty over the bar? I know people will say it put is 3 up against 14 men with 10 minutes to play but for me you should be going for goal there. Kerry scored a free from 40 meters within a minute or two of that. Shouldn't have penalties cancelled out by 40 meter frees.

Was that not a miss ? A Charlie Redmund

Bonniedog

corny wrote: »

In Rocks interview with RTE he kind of admitted he was going for goal. Something along the lines of i just thought i'd hit high and hard and hope for the best.

I'm only repeating what I heard so hope the mods are understanding!

Anyway, when the ball went over the bar someone behind me roared (possibly took same bet as me :

"Your Da would drown you in the fkn canal" !

ProudDUB

Well, well, well....how do you like them apples !

Where do you start? When was the last time we bate Kerry by double digits in Croke Park?

So much to praise today....Fenton (hard to believe that this time last year, we were all looking at each other and asking ...eh, sorry....who he?) was majestic in midfield. Utterly dominating and ran the show. Cian - our imperious general. Hope someone threw some beef drippin' and a few aul shpuds on Marc O'Se, coz he got a real roasting from Berno today.

Davy Byrne - Brilliant. End of ! Really, really like the cut of John Small's jib. Got knocked on his arse a lot, in a 'welcome to the jungle; kind of way. Never, ever reacts. Just gets on with it. Brilliant to see, in light of the usual clownish carry on by Donaghy. Mr D. Connolly and. Mr J. Cooper, please, PLEASE take note. Ciaran Kilkenny - really coming into his own and stepping out of the shadow of the other half forwards.

Am officially worried about Dermo now. Looks really out of sorts. Doesn't seem to even know what he wants to do with the ball half the time. Glad Gavin took him off. He seemed to be one of the few untouchables, who is left on, no matter how poorly he is performing. Glad that has ended. No one should be immune from a wake up call imo.

Wasn't happy about our lack of clinical finishing in the first half. With a bit mores slickness, we could & should have had 2-3 goals. Bastick had a goal opportunity handed to him on a platter and didn't seem to know what to do, when in on goal. Then there was a period in the middle of the second half, where we got incredibly sloppy and turned the ball over a fair bit. Wasn't a bit surprised that Kerry ran out of gas in the final quarter, or that they just couldn't cope with our speed and pace. However, not all teams, have the age profile that Kerry do. So we if we switch off like that in the summer, it could cost us. But that is something to worry about, down the road. Today is a day for celebrating. I won't lie. I had some bubbly !

And finally, a nice big Up Yours to the media who made a right proper show of themselves all week long, banging on about Kerry on the road to redemption, old guard being rejuvenated blah blah blah. As if any that was going to matter, with a bunch of geriatrics running the show for Kerry. But there was no telling them that. Colm O'Rourke made a holy show of himself, in the Sindo today. I highly recommend reading it, if you want a good giggle before bedtime.

Onwards and upwards.

UP THE DUBS !

Stoner

ProudDUB wrote:

And finally, a nice big Up Yours to the media who made a right proper show of themselves all week long, banging on about Kerry on the road to redemption, old guard being rejuvenated blah .

In all fairness they must have to do it. The rubbish they went on about fitzmaurice and his super flexible style last year was a joke, his fantastic record during his period in charge with only one championship defeat etc, and there's Gavin as the man who beat him, and a better record again in the same time period. BTW Fitzmaurice is a top man I'd say he just ignores what they say about him.
"Well Kerry figured Donegal out in 2014, when dublin couldn't " he had three weeks


It's nothing to do with Kerry supporters BTW, just media men with egos, if kerry won today it might have made last year's comments appear less foolish

Kerry need their whole squad available. When they have that they could beat anyone.

robbiezero

Stoner wrote: »

He was, head on him coming off too.

It was good to take him off, do him good. Kilkenny was very good today. Fenton really makes a huge difference to this team. His ability to contest kickouts allows us to win more of the oppositions ball but it also has contributed to easing the pressure on Cluxton as it's not that big of a deal if they push up on him.

Brogan was very good too. He is a true big game player. From how he handled himself in 2010 and Donegal in 2011 to the sort of threat he was today. Talk all you want about inspiration and creativity etc. His first three points when the game was close were very good scores never mind his involvement in creating goal opportunities, he took his man on and beat him. He's no spring chicken himself, he's in this 30s too and he has had a few good days out against some of these Kerry lads now over the years he's seen their best days too and did well.

D O'Sullivan still looks dangerous for Kerry. As does Donaghy, when Maher comes back it will free him up to move in. I don't think he has the legs for us in the middle at championship pace but I still think he's a savage forward.
I'll always consider him a dirty so and so but I like him. He was involved in two blatant body checks today and i heard he hopped Bastics head into the ground at one stage all before he hopped the ball off the ground, he's great to watch, just not watch when he's against you. I would say he'd play regularly for this Dublin team.
Fennels shining moment for us was winning the throw in from him cleanly in 2011, few have done it since.

O'Donoghue will make a difference for them too, he'll take some watching.
I would have liked to see O'Gara on for a spell today I think he would have done well.
I still think Kerry only have one top class half back and that is where to get at them. Their subs there today made little difference while ours picked up scores off them. They went out today with a certain mindset and tried to substitute for some of their limitations , ultimately it was their undoing imo.

I know I'm going against the grain here. But I genuinely think Gooch is a bit of a luxury player. He a sort of player that made a very good kerry team fantastic, but I'm not sure if he's a player that would make an average kerry team very good or even dangerous, JOD and Donaghy could make an average team dangerous on their own.

The above should get a reaction anyway.

Was it Enright who gave away the penno? I'm away at the moment so living off watching it in a pub , feeds and updates from the fecker who pretended to be me in my seat today.

If it was he was on a yellow and it looked like he pulled him down. If it was him he's a lucky man again.
Black on a yellow is a red.

Finally on that , the back on the cavan midfielder was it Buchanan today looked harsh, that the second one recently where the black card is bring used as soft red card, Red Lite.

I think your spot on. He is a class act, but will never carry a forward line, at his age now he would be fine pulling the strings with a good forward line, but is at nothing on a poor forward line.

Kerry really need to accept defeat in their battle against Dublin and retire O'Se and Mahony, Gooch and Donaghy and try and rebuild even it means they will be down for a few years.